Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 4

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There are two perspectives on "inculturation". One can look at it as infiltration of Christianity. The other perspective is one could think it as absorption of Christianity into the native culture.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But how can we know for sure which influence will dominate the mixture?

IMHO, keeping things distinct and separate is in our best interest.

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There are two perspectives on "inculturation". One can look at it as infiltration of Christianity. The other perspective is one could think it as absorption of Christianity into the native culture. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya and then 5 centuries down the line our descendants will be celebrating Deepvali as the birth of Theresa, just like today people celebrate Christmas as the birth of mythical Jesus with no knowledge of its origins or past, even Easter falls under the same category.

I know these so called Xtian converts who walk around with their Hindu names like Madhusudhana, the women carrying on Hindu customs like Bindi and Mangalasutra and claiming to be this or that caste, but scratch the surface and all u get is bigotry against Hindus. Till 50 years ago these were the same people who said Indian culture was dirty heathen culture, suddenly they have found beauty in heathen Bharatanatyam, Carnatic music etc, and surprisingly this also coincides well with the blessings of the Church for the new strategy of inculturation, go figure the intentions behind this sudden transformation.

At least with Muslim converts I can respect their honesty and contempt for Indian culture and their ardent desire to be pure arabs like Muhammad himself, but I cannot stand deception in the guise of appreciation when the underlying goal is the same old conversion and destruction of Hindus.

And if these people think they are fooling me they are in for a surprise, the illiterate Hindus are their main target but as literacy spreads and more Hindus become educated, they will be exposed for the shameless charlatans they are, despite their pretensions I would NEVER consider them to be part of my caste or have anything to do with them, they are just other Indian citizens, nothing more or nothing less.

The muddle headed RSS applauds this fraud as Indianisation without realizing the intentions.

To give an example, I would rather have Muslims in AP speaking Urdu than Telugu if there is no genuine appreciation for Telugu culture and is just another way for them to convert Hindus, if otoh some Muslim doesn't have the itch for jihad and genuinely appreciates Telugu and feels that its his mother tongue then its something good that he speaks it.

[Shambhu]

Another polygamist cult, the "House of Yahweh" is under investigation in Clyde, TX.

Guide us foolish heathens lost in the wilderness, O great True Religion!

[Husky]

On the topic of christianism's inculturation.
(And Swamy G, facts are <i>not</i> a matter of perspective - facts are not opinion. Christos are using inculturation for a purpose. Just like christoterrorism used it in the GrecoRoman empire. Do you recall who won there?)

http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HkPage.aspx...EID=6185&SKIN=C
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>What is Traditional ?</b>
01/05/2008 03:28:15  GSK Menon

It is a common trend nowadays in the print and visual media to call every Hindu ritual/custom as “traditional”. There is a deliberate ongoing exercise to call every Hindu ritual/custom as “traditional”. The entire object of the exercise is to obliterate the Hindu identity. This is slowly seeping into our collective consciousness that we are unaware of this subtle brainwashing that is happening around us.

Let me start with an example.  <b>If we take any magazine or newspaper, in the section devoted to Recipes/Cookery,dishes</b> are often referred to as Moplah dishes, Malabar Biriyani, Lucknowi Biriyani, Hyderabadi Biriyani, Syrian-Christian dishes etc. But, you will not find a single dish being called as Hindu dish, why ? Take “payasam” for instance, it was a by-product of the legendary churning of the Milky Ocean, but no newspaper/magazine will refer it to as “Hindu delicacy”, why ? <b>There is a conscious and hidden understanding to delink “ Hindu” from our heritage. </b>

The other day, my Christian  servant lady brought for me <b>“prasadam”</b> from a St.Joseph’s Church. It was a perfect replica of the Sabarimala container and payasam, only the words “St.Joseph’s Church” was inscribed on the container. Then I asked my servant as to whether she knew what payasam was and she replied in the negative. I had to explain to her the history of payasam and its link to our Hindu scriptures. Even the Lalitha Sahasranamam refers to Goddess Durga as “ Payasa anna priya”. The servant lady’s shock and disbelief and subsequent embarrassment were a real spectacle. Obviously she had been duped and tricked by the Church into believing that <b>payasam</b> was being consumed by Joseph. How could Joseph partake of a Hindu delicacy? Now she has become more respectful to the photos of Hindu Gods & Goddesses in our house.

Similarly, it is now fashionable to light the <b>Hindu lamp</b> on every function/inauguration etc. The Christian community has gone crazy over this Hindu mode of worship. Padres are lighting Hindu lamps for anything and everything. This mode of worship is not authorized in the Bible. There is an intelligent twist in the media reporting. “Hindu lamp” has been replaced by “traditional lamp” in all reports of journalists. Whose tradition? Christians and Muslims do not have this tradition. Just because they have started using it does the Hindu lamp lose its Hindu identity?  Can you de-Hinduise it ? Certainly not.

Recently I read one article by a Christian on <b>Kathakali.</b> He has studiously avoided the term “Hindu” and has substituted it to read as “Kathakali , the traditional art form”. Whose traditional art ? Certainly of the Hindus only.

It is the Christians who are creating the maximum ridicule and contempt for the Hindu religion (though they are the most ardent imitators). Alien Missionaries are all over India ridiculing Hinduism and blatantly indulging in conversion maneuvers. Those who are imitating our Hindu rites/customs/culture are too embarrassed to acknowledge it for that would amount to negation of their alien beliefs. The intelligent way deciphered is to keep using the word “traditional” instead of “Hindu”.

I appeal to all readers of Haindavakeralam to be aware of such corrupt and crooked practices of the media. As soon as you notice it nip it in the bud. Just send a letter to the Editor pointing out the omission. It will not be published, but, the Editor will realize that there are sensible and intelligent readers. We will also be putting on notice all the converts that Hindus are intent to safeguard, protect and  assert the Hindu aspect of our culture and food aspects.  Just as there are Intellectual Property Rights, Copyrights etc there is something known as Hindu Art and Cultural copyrights. Let us not allow any media fellow or alien religious practitioners to undermine the Hindu identity.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And some comments:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Ragu
01/05/2008 13:11:15
<b>Onam</b>
There was a orthodox Kerala christian forum which I visited earlier, where they were sayinh <b>Onam</b> is not Hindu festival, but a Malayalam harvest festival to thank God and that Hindus have usurped and introduced beliefs regarding bali Chakravarti and Vamana avatar.

Christians are one of the most divisive usurpers of Hindu traditions. 
( <!--emo&:o--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /><!--endemo--> Now the christoterrorists come out and say it is specifically not a Hindu festival when it most particularly is!!!)

Shankar, NY
01/05/2008 12:20:10 
<b>Hinduism is Indian tradition</b>
Imitation is not a new subject in Christianity and Islam. Everything they proudly practice in India is copied from Hinduism only.
Lot of Priests and Nuns are practicing and teaching <b>Yoga</b> lessons. Poor Hindus don't know Yoga is described in the Hindu scriptures for Yogis to maintain a healthy body and mind. Ultimate aim of Yoga is to practice meditation without any distraction. Pathanjali extracted the essence of Yoga from Hindu scriptures and made it available to the humanity. How someone else who doesn’t have respect to Hinduism could practice something described in Hindu books. Let them go to a Gym and do some workout otherwise.

Take the case of <b>Ayurveda</b>, it is now under the control of invaders from other religions. "Ayurvedam" is one of the "upavedam" of Hindu religion. How a Christian or Christian priest could practice/preach an updaveda of Hindu religion.

Next take the case of <b>Jyothisham</b>, Many Christians are believers of Jyothisham and our greedy (and ignorant) Jyothishis have manipulated it into the extreme extend to satisfy their clients. They are prescribing remedies based on customer’s religious beliefs not based on the “Sastra” itself. They should have the guts to tell their customers that Jyothisham was derived from our holy scriptures and strictly follows the Vedic tradition so they have to go to Temple to do the "Prayaschitham" not in the church.

Take any form of art including <b>Bharatha Natyam, Classical Music, Pancha Vadyam</b> etc. All these art forms are now taken away from Hindu religion and portraying as secular art forms. There are hundreds of examples of cultural invasion in and around us. If we strip all these out of the imitators we could see their real tradition.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Christianism was always a bankrupt religion. It could never create anything itself and so it made its followers lacklustre, uninspired, insipid and unimaginative (e.g. compare Greek art before and after christianism). Hence they have to resort to christo-thievery to steal others' religious traditions like our Hindu traditions.

[dhu]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->CHANGING GODS: RETHINKING CONVERSION IN INDIA
by Rudolf C. Heredia (Penguin)
Pages: 386; Rs: 350

Even in today’s secular societies, there are few transformations that cause more grief than the decision of individuals or communities to abandon their religion and embrace a new God. Equated by some with secession, such conversions have divided families and communities, created social tension and triggered violence. The right to preach and propagate religion is in the Constitution but has been contested and circumscribed at the social and political levels.

Opposition has come from Hindu organisations that believe non-proselytising faiths stand in danger of being assaulted by the numbers game. Many states have passed anti-conversion laws to prevent mass conversions through coercion or inducements. The issue has become politicised and linked to questions of national identity.

Harvesting souls for Christ has been a central feature of Christianity. Naturally, organised Christianity is troubled by the growing resistance to what it regards as its religious obligation and civil rights. "If I find," argues the author in this study of conversion (as distinct from proselytisation), "that changing my religion promotes my economic opportunities and my democratic rights...should I be prevented by the state or other citizens?"

Although Christianity in India is many centuries old, only after Independence has an Indian Christian perspective haltingly emerged.

This book’s value lies in its attempt to grapple with the prevailing concerns both from a Christian—Heredia is a Jesuit priest—and social science perspective. The results are intriguing.

On the positive side, Heredia upholds the crucial distinction between atmaparivartan and dharmantar. The first, an aspect of individual self-realisation and metamorphosis, happens all the time sans any fuss. Dharmantar is more divisive and problematic, especially when the transition crosses national traditions. Swami Vivekananda, for example, dubbed those leaving the Hindu fold as "one enemy more". Gandhi charged converts to Christianity of being "ashamed of their birth" and "chang(ing) nationality."

Heredia admits that Christianity in India carries this burden of history. Simultaneously, he argues that religious traditions in India have undergone constant change—even before the advent of Islam.

Without overtly saying so, Heredia’s selective survey of Indian history and politics (he misses out the Inquisition in Goa and the iconoclasm of Muslim rulers) <b>leads him to the Left-liberal conclusion that Brahminical Hinduism is at the root of all evil. The resistance to conversions, he feels, is just a ruse to maintain Brahminical hegemony over subalterns.
</b>
The core conflict, it seems to me, involves faiths of Indian and non-Indian origin. The evolution of a uniquely Indian Islam has, for example, floundered in the face of a Wahabi Islamism that ends up Arabising local Muslims. Likewise, the Roman Catholic Church has made its antipathy to Eastern spirituality quite open. The absence of a national theology agitated individual Muslims like Dara Shikoh and many upper-caste Indian Christians. It led to experiments with "Hindu Christianity" and calls to abandon conversions altogether. Though it doesn’t excite our radical Jesuit author, it would bolster Indian nationhood if local churches imbibed the experiences of the likes of Pandita Ramabai. A national approach to faith may be an Indian solution to dharmantaran.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Shambhu]

Pope affirms right to convert non-believers to Christianity

http://news.hinduworld.com/click_frameset....938%26Itemid%3D

Hey, Papa "Titus-worshipping child-molester-in-chief" Vaticus:

<span style='color:red'>Hindus affirm right to expose the ChristoHoax</span>

[Pandyan]

I wish the bearded ones would [edited]

[Shambhu]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+May 20 2008, 08:48 AM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ May 20 2008, 08:48 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I wish the bearded ones would [edited]
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Heh! But that would result in a clash between the two Most Magnificent "Civilizations"! Then what would the poor non-civilizations like Hindoo Dharma do? Heh! Who will tell us that our history and achievements are worthless? Who will take over our temples? [edited]

[Shambhu]

Can anyone post a link to the atrocities done by the Portuguese in Goa? Thanks..

[Guest]

Shambu, my post here has some links. Check that Goa thread too and if you find material elsewhere, please contribute.

[Shambhu]

Thanks Viren. In a blog that I visit, they have gotten to exploring AIT, muslim invasions, MacCaulay etc..but Goan inq. remains unknown to them. So I am going to intro this to them. THey are really making good attempts to understand true Indic history..

I was especially pissed yesterday when in my random clicking of links I came across another blog in which a Indian guy had said that some xtian guy long ago had suvived great hardship and finally convinced the colonizers to convert some community in India (in this bloggers words, "bring salvation to" that community).

[dhu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzRB8Iv8A...re=related
BLACK BABY as ALLIGATOR BAIT
"that's why they are called alligator babies"

[dhu]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Details of the Goa Inquisition</b>
Christian historian, Dr. T. R. de Souza

At least from 1540 onwards, and in the island of Goa before that year, all the Hindu idols had been annihilated or had disappeared, all the temples had been destroyed and their sites and building material was in most cases utilized to erect new Christian Churches and chapels. Various viceregal and Church council decrees banished the Hindu priests from the Portuguese territories; the public practices of Hindu rites including marriage rites, were banned; the state took upon itself the task of bringing up Hindu orphan children; the Hindus were denied certain employments, while the Christians were preferred; it was ensured that the Hindus would not harass those who became Christians, and on the contrary, the Hindus were obliged to assemble periodically in Churches to listen to preaching or to the refutation of their religion."

"A particularly grave abuse was practiced in Goa in the form of 'mass baptism' and what went before it. The practice was begun by the Jesuits and was alter initiated by the Franciscans also. The Jesuits staged an annual mass baptism on the Feast of the Conversion of St. Paul (January 25), and in order to secure as many neophytes as possible, a few days before the ceremony the Jesuits would go through the streets of the Hindu quarter in pairs, accompanied by their Negro slaves, whom they would urge to seize the Hindus. When the blacks caught up a fugitive, they would smear his lips with a piece of beef, making him an 'untouchable' among his people. Conversion to Christianity was then his only option."

The Goan inquisition is regarded by all contemporary portrayals as the most violent inquisition ever executed by the Portuguese Catholic Church. It lasted from 1560 to 1812. The inquisition was set as a tribunal, headed by a judge, sent to Goa from Portugal and was assisted by two judicial henchmen. The judge was answerable to no one except to Lisbon and handed down punishments as he saw fit. The Inquisition Laws filled 230 pages and the palace where the Inquisition was conducted was known as the Big House and the Inquisition proceedings were always conducted behind closed shutters and closed doors. The screams of agony of the culprits (men, women, and children) could be heard in the streets, in the stillness of the night, as they were brutally interrogated, flogged, and slowly dismembered in front of their relatives. Eyelids were sliced off and extremities were amputated carefully, a person could remain conscious even though the only thing that remained was his torso and a head.

Diago de Boarda, a priest and his advisor Vicar General, Miguel Vazz had made a 41 point plan for torturing Hindus. Under this plan Viceroy Antano de Noronha issued in 1566, an order applicable to the entire area under Portuguese rule :
"I hereby order that in any area owned by my master, the king, nobody should construct a Hindu temple and such temples already constructed should not be repaired without my permission. If this order is transgressed, such temples shall be, destroyed and the goods in them shall be used to meet expenses of holy deeds, as punishment of such transgression."

In 1567 the campaign of destroying temples in Bardez met with success. At the end of it 300 Hindu temples were destroyed. Enacting laws, prohibition was laid from December 4, 1567 on rituals of Hindu marriages, sacred thread wearing and cremation. All the persons above 15 years of age were compelled to listen to Christian preaching, failing which they were punished.

A religious fatva was issued on the basis of the findings of Goa Inquiry Commission. It stated,"...Hereby we declare the decision that the conventions mentioned in the preamble of the fatva as stated below are permanently declared as useless, and therefore prohibited".

<b>Prohibitions Regarding Marriages</b>

-The instruments for Hindu songs shall not be played.
-While giving dowry the relatives of the bride and groom must not be invited.
-At the time of marriage, betel leaf packages (pan) must not be distributed either publicly or in private to the persons present.
-Flowers, or fried puris, betel nuts and leaves must not be sent to the heads of the houses of the bride or groom.
-Gotraj ceremony of family God must not be performed.
-On the day prior to a wedding, rice must not be husked, spices must not be pounded, grains must not be ground and other recipes for marriage feast must not be cooked.
-Pandals and festoons must not be used.
-Pithi should not be applied.
-The bride must not be accorded ceremonial welcome. The bride and groom must not -be made to sit under pandal to convey blessings and best wishes to them.

<b>Prohibitions Regarding Fasts, Post-death Rituals</b>

-The poor must not be fed or ceremonial meals must not be served for the peace of the souls of the dead.
-There should be no fasting on ekadashi day.
-Fasting can be done according to the Christian principles.
-No rituals should be performed on the twelfth day after death, on moonless and full moon dates.
-No fasting should be done during lunar eclipse.

<b>Conventions</b>

-Hindu men should not wear dhoti either in public or in their houses. Women should not wear cholis .
-They should not plant Tulsi in their houses, compounds, gardens or any other place.

-Following the law of 1567, orphans were kidnapped for converting them to Christianity.

On September 22, 1570 an order was issued that :
-The Hindus embracing Christianity will be exempted from land taxes for a period of 15 years.
-Nobody shall bear Hindu names or surnames.

In 1583 Hindu temples at Esolna and Kankolim were destroyed through army action.

"The fathers of the Church forbade the Hindus under terrible penalties the use of their own sacred books, and prevented them from all exercise of their religion. They destroyed their temples, and so harassed and interfered with the people that they abandoned the city in large numbers, refusing to remain any longer in a place where they had no liberty, and were liable to imprisonment, torture and death if they worshipped after their own fashion the gods of their fathers." wrote Sasetti, who was in India from 1578 to 1588.

An order was issued in June 1684 eliminating Konkani language and making it compulsory to speak Portuguese language. The law provided for dealing toughly with anyone using the local language. Following that law all the symbols of non-Christian sects were destroyed and the books written in local languages were burnt.

The Archbishop living on the banks of the Ethora had said during one of his lecture series, "The post of Inquiry Commission in Goa is regarded as holy." The women who opposed the assistants of the commission were put behind the bars and were used by them to satisfy their animal instincts. Then they were burnt alive as opponents of the established tenets of the Catholic church.
The victims of such inhuman laws of the Inquiry Commission included a French traveller named Delone. He was an eye witness to the atrocities, cruelty and reign of terror unleashed by priests. He published a book in 1687 describing the lot of helpless victims. While he was in jail he had heard the cries of tortured people beaten with instruments having sharp teeth. All these details are noted in Delone's book.

So harsh and notorious was the inquisition in Goa, that word of its brutality and horrors reached Lisbon but nothing was done to stop this notoriety and escalating barbarity and it continued for two hundred more years. No body knows the exact number of Goans subjected to these diabolical tortures, but perhaps it runs into hundreds of thousands, may be even more. The abominations of inquisitions continued until a brief respite was given in 1774 but four years later, the inquisition was introduced again and it continued un-interruptedly until 1812. At that point in time, in the year of 1812, the British put pressure on the Portuguese to put an end to the terror of Inquisition and the presence of British troops in Goa enforced the British desire. Also the Portuguese power at this time was declining and they could not fight the British. The palace of the Grand Inquisitor, the Big House, was demolished and no trace of it remains today, which might remind someone of inquisitions and the horrors inside this Big House that their great saint Francis Xavier had commenced.

Dr. Trasta Breganka Kunha, a Catholic citizen of Goa writes, "Inspite of all the mutilations and concealment of history, it remains an undoubted fact that religious conversion of Goans is due to methods of force adopted by the Portuguese to establish their rule. As a result of this violence the character of our people was destroyed. The propagation of Christian sect in Goa came about not by religious preaching but through the methods of violence and pressure. If any evidence is needed for this fact, we can obtain it through law books, orders and reports of the local rulers of that time and also from the most dependable documents of the Christian sect<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<b>Bangladeshis pose a threat to Vaishnavas</b>

Press Trust of India
Wednesday, May 21, 2008 (Guwahati)
Illegal Bangladeshi migrants in Assam were encroaching land of nearly 900 Vaishnava monasteries across the state threatening the existence and safety of the people there, a former director general of museums claimed.

The 16th century monasteries set up with land provided by the Ahom and Koch kings now had most of their huge estates <b>encroached upon by the migrants resorting to forcible taking away of idols and valuable antiquities, dacoity, molestation and other criminal activities, said former director general of museums Rabin Choudhury.</b>

<b>He added that even some religious heads had been killed by them who has been engaged in the protection work of the monasteries since 1984.</b>

Quoting a report, he said that <b>about 32 monasteries land were under encroachment threatening the past glory of these Vaishnava institutions of culture, literature, music and religion</b>.

In another judgement of the Board of Revenue, Choudhury said that land belonging to a particular religious institution and people belonging to another religion cannot encroach upon people belonging to other religions.

Despite this, he asserted that the government ignoring all these directions was yet to take any measures or issue instructions for the monasteries protection.

<b>Himalaya Convener Shiladitya Dev also asserted that recently some churches had been built on monasteries land in the world's largest river island and Vaishnavite centre Majuli in Jorhat district</b>.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+May 22 2008, 04:00 PM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ May 22 2008, 04:00 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Bangladeshis pose a threat to Vaishnavas</b>

Press Trust of India
Wednesday, May 21, 2008 (Guwahati)
Illegal Bangladeshi migrants in Assam were encroaching land of nearly 900 Vaishnava monasteries across the state threatening the existence and safety of the people there, a former director general of museums claimed.

The 16th century monasteries set up with land provided by the Ahom and Koch kings now had most of their huge estates <b>encroached upon by the migrants resorting to forcible taking away of idols and valuable antiquities, dacoity, molestation and other criminal activities, said former director general of museums Rabin Choudhury.</b>

<b>He added that even some religious heads had been killed by them who has been engaged in the protection work of the monasteries since 1984.</b>

Quoting a report, he said that <b>about 32 monasteries land were under encroachment threatening the past glory of these Vaishnava institutions of culture, literature, music and religion</b>.

In another judgement of the Board of Revenue, Choudhury said that land belonging to a particular religious institution and people belonging to another religion cannot encroach upon people belonging to other religions.

Despite this, he asserted that the government ignoring all these directions was yet to take any measures or issue instructions for the monasteries protection.

<b>Himalaya Convener Shiladitya Dev also asserted that recently some churches had been built on monasteries land in the world's largest river island and Vaishnavite centre Majuli in Jorhat district</b>.
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Send in the ISKCONs there! Bus-loads of them, from around the world. The ones that are currently in Russia and eastern Europe can do the job best, considering the crap they have to deal with in these countries, day in day out, just to stay alive and practice their faith. They will either push the koran-peddlers out entirely, right across the borders, or put a big namam on all of them and have them singing and dancing 'hare krishna, hare krishna' in no time. They can do this job the best!

[Pandyan]

<!--QuoteBegin-sankara+May 22 2008, 06:45 AM-->QUOTE(sankara @ May 22 2008, 06:45 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Send in the ISKCONs there! Bus-loads of them, from around the world. The ones that are currently in Russia and eastern Europe can do the job best, considering the crap they have to deal with in these countries, day in day out, just to stay alive and practice their faith.  They will either push the koran-peddlers out entirely, right across the borders, or put a big namam on all of them and have them singing and dancing 'hare krishna, hare krishna' in no time. They can do this job the best!
[right][snapback]81900[/snapback][/right]
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Are you serious? The main reason this is happening is only because of the already effeminate Vaishnavas, sending in ISCKON (the king of emasculated organizations) would only worsen the problem. What are they going to do? Scare them away by banging their cheap brass cymbals?

[Bharatvarsh]

This should be the Indian govt's job to clear out the illegal infiltrators not IKSCON's, if we think these Bangla fanatics (orchestrators of Direct Action Day and many other massacres) will be scared of IKSCON or will listen to reason then we are living in a fools paradise.

At the least, anyone sent there has to be armed and capable of kicking out these scum, something like ex service men.

But seeing the way our politicians are welcoming these scum its not long before NE becomes an extention of beggardesh, shivraj patil and sheila dixit think these scum have as much right to our resources as citizens (by the way this was the same woman that complained about Bihari migrants to Delhi), so go figure whose interests this gov't is serving, to me it looks like an extension of paki gov't.

[Husky]

Not that I think ISKCON has a remote chance there. But just on the topic of ISKCON and its effect on Indian muslims: from my going about on the web I've found that quite a number of Indian muslims entered through ISKCON and consider themselves Hindus now. Can't entirely explain this. (OTOH, Pakistan's Anwar Shaikh chose Mahendran as his Ishtadevam, ISKCON didn't have anything to do with Shaikh's opting for Hindu Dharma of course.)
Even after joining via ISKCON, they still appear to have the average Hindu idea about Krishna rather than ISKCON's outlook.

(Pandyan
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->effeminate Vaishnavas<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->If you complain about ISKCON, I won't stop you (I know I complain a lot myself). But please don't say things about Vaishnavas. (That 'please' is inserted largely on account of your having chosen a username that I am <i>highly</i> biased towards.)

Hindus have a right to be happy and if Hindus happen to sing and dance giddily in front of our Gods, I think they have the right. Why denigrate it and make light of it. Don't insult your own people and your own traditions. Hindus who are able ought to be defending their people and their way of life, to ensure that these simpler ways are preserved. Your grandmother may be such a person, you wouldn't deprive her would you? Not everyone is born a hero, so let those that can still enjoy simple happiness unencumbered keep to what little they have. Life is short. And the Hindu's life is made shorter still, so let them live it their way. We cannot lose Hindu traditions. Undermining life-giving Hindu traditions will shoot Hindus in the foot.

<b>Having said that though,</b> it is essential to promote whatever levels of Kshatriya mindset is dormant in all. And in the case of Vaishnavas (all Hindus in fact) the concerned Hindu can always point them to Gita's Karma Yoga and Krishna's advise therein on defending Dharma.

[Bodhi]

Iran was a hotbed of ISKCON activities in 70s. Prabhupad had invested visits and time in Iran and was apparently succesful in converting many shia-s, before khomaini came and hounded out each of them.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+May 22 2008, 06:43 PM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ May 22 2008, 06:43 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->....Are you serious? The main reason this is happening is only because of the already effeminate Vaishnavas, sending in ISCKON (the king of emasculated organizations) would only worsen the problem. What are they going to do? Scare them away by banging their cheap brass cymbals?
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Effeminate Vaishnavas? Hmph..hardly think so. They are just like any other sect of Sanatana Dharma - no more effeminate and no more valour than the other sects.

My suggestion (to send in the ISKCON) was meant to be taken with a pinch of salt. However, one thing is for sure - the GOI is certainly NOT going to solve the issue, nor take one step in the direction of even acknowledging the problem. So, ultimately, its going to be left to the ingenuity of the locals to find a way to solve the problem and survive in that hostile environment.

And surviving in hostile environments is what the ISKCONS do VERY well. Not only do they survive in those communities that set bear traps for them regularly, but manage to slowly widen their membership. How they manage to say up on their feet, after repeated attempts by their neighbours to use them for target practice - can't really say. But perseverence, steely determination, and guts - plenty of it - seem to contribute partly to their survival. And all this coming from strict vegetarians.

But with all the scandals that have rocked the sect in the last 10 years, one can only hope that they would stop shooting each other in the foot, and aim the guns at the more 'deserving' groups - in the case of Assam, the two deluded groups of "messiahs" from across the borders - one carrying packs of koran and the other bibles. The ISKCON would be doing a great service to all, especially the Vaishnavas trapped in Assam, if they aimed their cymbals at the two Abrahamic peddlers.