<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Didn't Teesta and some self appointed spokesman for the NRI India community issue press release that "Hindu fundamentalists" were responsible of Mecca Masjid blasts? Where are they now?
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Now they are saying why only Muslims came out with press release not Hindu or NRI Hindus.
As usual those who say Tasleem should be stop and Hyderabad is craddle of Islam came out with first press release.
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> Blasting peace http://www.business-standard.com/opinionan...Left=1&leftnm=4
Business Standard / New Delhi August 28, 2007
The blasts in Hyderabad on Saturday, in which 40 people were killed, raise questions at several levels. At strategic/diplomatic level, one question is whether a Pakistani terror group or some part of the Pakistani establishment, operating out of there or from some other country, is trying to derail the current peace talks between India and Pakistan. That could well be so. But does President Musharraf know? The easy answer is to assume that he doesnât and this is all being done by the anti-Musharraf group which doesnât want any rapprochement between India and Pakistan. But General Musharraf is not anyoneâs dummy and it is improbable that he is unaware of the broad strategy. How much he approves of it is a matter of speculation. But it is hard to imagine his being quite as much in the dark as Nawaz Sharief claimed he was about the Kargil offensive. That is not how these things work, not in Pakistan when an army man is in charge.
The second level of questions must concern the quality of intelligence service that India has. It is no oneâs case that all terrorist actions can be prevented; that is next to impossible, especially when the terrorists go for soft targets like unprepared and unarmed civilians in crowded public areas. However, an effective penetration of terror networks can give proper forewarning of major attacks being planned, and this should not be too much to ask for. While no one can be fully informed on such a subject, on the evidence available, it would seem that the intelligence agencies are failing the country and its citizens.
At domestic political level, one other question is whether the Congress, in its quest for Muslim votes, has been soft on terrorists â as the BJP has repeatedly alleged. The record shows that since August 15, 2004, there have been six major attacks in which over 300 people have been killed. With one exception â Varanasi â the rest have all been in Congress-ruled states: Assam, Delhi, Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh. There was one attack in UP when Mulayam Singh Yadav was the chief minister. This may or may not be a statistically significant sample on the basis of which to come to any firm conclusion, and it may be far-fetched to suggest that it is Congress-quality governance that makes terrorist attacks possible. A more plausible argument would be that the Congress has a better chance of ruling states that have a large Muslim population, and for that very reason it is easier in those states to get the local logistics support required by Islamist terror groups for planting bombs â hence Congress-ruled states become more vulnerable to terrorist attacks.
At Jihadi level, the question is why bombs should be aimed at Muslims and Muslim-majority areas. The attacks on the Samjhauta Express and on the Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad are good examples of this. It is also necessary to ask if the Al Qaeda has become very active in India. Full answers will probably never be known and in any case they may not be uni-dimensional. The minds of terrorists and their masters work in strange ways and are not easy to fathom.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Hyd blast: AP police grills illegal immigrants </b>
Pioneer.com
PTI | Hyderabad
In connection with Saturday's twin blasts here, Police on Tuesday questioned 50 persons, including Pakistan and Bangladesh nationals staying illegally in the city.
<b>The police grilled 20 Pakistani and 10 Bangladeshi nationals who have been staying here illegally for the last few years, police sources said</b>.
In a bid to procure clues from the public about perpetrators of the blasts, police also questioned the injured in the incidents to ascertain whether they had seen any persons moving around the blast sites under suspicious circumstances, sources informed.
M Punna Rao, head of the special investigation team probing the blasts, said there was a common pattern in the Mecca Masjid blast in the city in May and the weekend twin explosions as both occurred at crowded places to inflict maximum casualties.
He said the blasts were definitely the handiwork of terrorists with the objective of creating panic in the society and fomenting trouble between different communities.
Meanwhile Andhra Pradesh CM YS Rajasekhar Reddy said the proposed anti-terror special force of the state police, on the lines of anti-Naxalite unit "Greyhounds", would be provided training on par with international standards and modern facilities. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Send them back.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>India is a easy prey for bombers: Experts </b>
Pioneer.com
Reuters | New Delhi
A hostile neighbourhood combined with a lack of domestic political will accompanied by some sloppy policing have made India a vulnerable target for Islamist militants, experts say, after bombs killed 41 people in Hyderabad.
<b>The US Government's National Counter Terrorism Center said that India was second only to Iraq in terms of terrorist incidents and deaths between January 2004 and March 2007, with 3,674 people killed, more than hotspots like Afghanistan and Colombia.</b>
A daily diet of violence in Kashmir and attacks by small bands of Maoists in the countryside seldom make national headlines, but high-profile bomb attacks on cities blamed on Islamist militants now take place more often.
The latest attack in Hyderabad was swiftly blamed on Islamist militant groups based in Bangladesh or Pakistan, using Indian Muslims to carry out their work.
<b>It was an explanation rejected by both the neighbours, but one diplomats say has a ring of truth in the blame.</b>Â
....
....
Police also came in for criticism this week. <b>Each time a bomb goes off, the police round up suspects and make a few arrests, but seldom seem to get to the perpetrators.</b>
Â
Analysts say the police are massively understaffed and under-resourced given the scale of the challenge they face, with vast swathes of the rural hinterland virtually unpoliced. The criminal justice system is overwhelmed and outdated.
<b>There is also a lack of coordination between police in States and at the Centre, no central database of militant suspects and little time for the kind of meticulous, post-attack hunt for clues undertaken elsewhere.</b>
...
"We need to have a consensus approach," said security expert C Uday Bhaskar, adding that India, like many democracies, needed to balance human rights and security needs, while also making sure laws were not misused.
Politicians, experts say, do need to acknowledge that India's 140-million-strong <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Muslim population is beginning to provide recruits for militant groups. </span>
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The quotations below(both Part I and II) are from BR. I could not find my post in BR and i thought it had been zapped. But i did find it and therefore my remarks on the BRadmins were hasty and intemperate.
The second part is a post by shiv (one of the admins) where he expresses an oipinion which is so close to mine, that I was taken aback
Read on and make up your own mind
BTW, my vision has deteriorated and i have difficulty with small font size, so at least I make sure I can read what I write
Part I
quote :Kaushal
Unless political interests coincide with National interests there cannot be a change in projection as a soft state.
[1]American military industrial complex needs wars to sustain their existence. <>Indian software industry needs peace to sustain their existence.
[2]American political leadership needs to kick ass in Muslim world because of the Jewish sentiments in order to be in power.
<>Indian political leadership needs to have its own ass kicked to accommodate muslim sentiments in order to retain power.
You figure out a way to get around this and we will be having tea at RYK in a week.My treat.
My comment - The Problem with reductionist arguments, such as this, is that by making simplifying assumptions, often of a sweeping character, the problem is reduced to equally (or nearly so ) unpleasant alternatives. There is no solution to the Paki dilemma, if we accept the conventional wisdom,, that the status quo accompanied by beaucoup deaths of innocents,, along with the tacit acceptance of a reality --- a reality that proclaims more loudly than all the Republic day parades that the security forces of India cannot protect the lives of the citizens of the republic from these relatively frequent acts of cowardice of the few. Interestingly, contrary to what they may proclaim publicly , this status quo is eminently suitable to the likes of Mushy and his cronies in Rawalpindi.
To take stock of the situation, one must step back and question some assumptions. The major assumption ,and it is a crippling one to any further strategic progress, is that India is a helpless giant (or elephant) hemmed in from all sides by adversaries ready to strike at the heart of India, if India so much as says Boo to Pakistan. The second major assumption is the supposed irrationality of the Pakis , that they would go nuclear at the slightest invasion of their land even for minor incursions.
Life does not come with guarantees, but I question these assumptions. The notion that US or China will go beyond the usual rhetoric in the UN. Is not realistic in my opinion. IOW there is a Lakshman rekha behind which there are plenty of alternatives for India to ponder. India is too big certainly a lot bigger than Iran, which is difficult enough as a country to deal with. The only people not cognizant of the consequences of this glaring fact are the Indians themselves.
The second assumption can be dismissed with the observation that the Pakis have shown consistently greater rationality in their foreign policy (if we accept their assumptions for a minute) than we give them credit for.
Once we give up these assumptions,, the door opens to many possible approaches to the problem
SwamyG wrote:
<i>If it is a message that needs to be conveyed to Pakistan, then few air strikes on Bangladesh would do the task. Countries fighting global terror in the World would notice too.
India has lost more people than any country other than Iraq. This is a shameful statistic.
I have some thoughts about Islamist terror and will try and articulate them.
The political dilemma faced in fighting Islamist terror is to blame Islamists and not islam. As always, after such a terrorist attack when Islamists are blamed. innocent Muslims (sometims genuinely) claim victimization just because of a "few misguided individuals of the type that you find in every religion"
For this erason we have a situation in which you have Islamic countries who retain the right to be as extremist as they like. They harbor the worst Ilamic bigit as fellow muslims.
When those fellow muslims, commit terrorist acts in another country, the excuse is "a few misguided individuals of the type that you find in every religion"
So you cannot blame Islam or Muslims even though it is clear that Islam and Muslims have a direct and demonstrable link with terrorism.
I see only one way out of this logjam. And that is to blame islam for every such terrorist attack and say in no uncertain terms that Islam and all Muslims in a country that harbors terrorists shoulder some of the responsibility for nutuing this sort of murderous hatred.
</i>
My comment â I have been saying all along that it is the operating system software that is responsible for so many bright young men leaving productive lives and taking up as life of cowardice where attacking women and children is glorifies as a the act of a martyr. There are not just a few individuals but who now run into the 100,000âs. If so many individuals can get the wrong message from the Koran , it is time to ask oneself whether the Koran needs to be revised and such egregious passages calling for the destruction of the Kaffir should be summarily be edited out of the text.
There is too much talk circuitous talk using weasel word such as secularism. Let us get back to the basics and teach our youngsters hindu and muslim the basics - to be good decent human beings and to be accountable for ones actions..
<i>shiv "But what of innocent Muslims"? one might ask. I am sorry to say that unless innocent Muslims are rudely woken up to see what is being done by Muslims in the name of Islam nothing is going to change. If blaming innocent Muslims will help wake them up, so be it. Let me explain further â
âBut then people will ask (as politicians and apologists do) "If you blame innocent Muslims you are playing into the extremists who want you do do that and alienate the ordinary Muslims. We are therefore required to shut up and not blame Islam when Islam is to blame. â
âIn fact that tactic is wrong. It is necessary to put Islam and all Muslims (innocent or not) into a fait accompli situation. Islam and groups of Muslims are certainly at fault for most terrorist deaths. If speaking this truth turns Muslims into extremists - it only proves the same point. The only way to disprove it is to put pressure on those parts of the ummah who support terror.â
</i>
It is important for the rest of us to know right from wrong. Killing innocent people in the name of jihad or whetever is terribly wrong and should be punished appropriately . Elsewhere I have proposed a set of Core Values.
The Core Values
Core Values
1.Integrity(1) Sattwa,Suddhi. A hankering for the truth is essential in this kind of endeavor (or any field of endeavor). Truth is conceptualized in many ways. What is the real truth? What is the ultimate truth? What is metaphysical truth or, what lies beyond? In seeking answers to all these questions, what is stressed upon is that one should be true to oneself, not just when interacting with another outside the Self.
The study of History (or any other endeavor) must be accompanied by a hankering for the truth. Such a narrative must have few if any inconsistencies and none which are major.
2.Celebration of Diversity (ability to synthesize opposing viewpoints, inability to do so is a sign of weakness and a sign of Avidya where one falls prey to Ahankara). "Ekam sat Vipraa, bahudha vadanti." "Truth is one, the wise call It by various names."
For many if not the vast majority, diversity signifies primarily if not exclusively diversity of ethnicities or races. But such a viewpoint ignores the very real diversity that exists in differing ideologies, opinions, experiences regardless of ethnic or class diversity. We maintain that the real test of being completely at home in a diverse environment, lies in synthesizing diverse viewpoints , while not necessarily agreeing with them.
Celebration of Diversity or at least the recognition of such diversity and its enthusiastic acceptance must remain a fundamental obligation of all nation states and the responsibility of all the individual citizens of a nation state and not just those of its citizens who are deemed to belong to a majority. Those who view themselves as a minority have to bear such an obligation in equal measure and cannot shirk such a responsibility with a plea that they are a minority and hence do not have to shoulder the same responsibilities as the rest of the populace.
At the same time celebration of diversity does not mean that one should tolerate the intolerant .
3.Courage(dhairya, dhiratva) to think outside the box and adopt new paradigms (Viswakarma), to admit your mistakes, show remorse and apologize where applicable and move on to persevere in the face of great odds and to fight against evil (Thithiksha). This also includes a reverence for the traditions of our ancient civilization and the courage to defend such traditions against tyranny and terrorism. We should be explicit in stating in s fashion reminiscent of a statesman in the west,
<span style='color:purple'>Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival of our cherished values and traditions
4. Detachment or Vairagya When faced with the consequences of oneâs action, Hinduism asks you to stand aside and become a witness (sAkshI bhAva). Rather than respond with extreme excitement or deep depression, accept what comes to you, without your intervention, with a certain detachment. In victory and failure, reflect, understand, inquire. The way you think influences your way of life and helps you motivate yourself without external aids. Vairagya is a core value which is perhaps emphasized to a greater degree than it is in ithe Occident
5.Viveka, to discriminate between what is good and what needs to be discarded. To preserve enduring traditions and values and discard those which are no longer relevant using Viveka
6.Compassion for those who need help and who cannot help themselves and those who are disadvantaged in society and who need a helping hand
7.Reverence for all life forms in particular human life is a central core value. The taking of a human life is a grave matter and is permitted to societies (and nations) only under conditions of extreme provocation, such as self defense. To wage war to reclaim lost territory or to avenge past wrongs becomes highly problematic under the prevailing charter of internationally acceptable behavior. It is all the more imperative that when one is forced into war that the fight be fought with valor ,courage and single minded determination to win, since the alternative could be very costly, as India has learned from past experience.
8. Tolerance for Ambiguity. Contrary to Einstein, the world and the events that take place in this world are not deterministic. One can only describe certain phenomena in a probabilistic paradigm. The certainty in ones belief system may be a luxury only Prophets can afford. For, the rest of us we have to rest content with a degree of belief and tolerate the inherent ambiguities of many facets of life
9.Respect for the individual and his/her individuality. We thank Ishwara for blessing the human species with the gift of diversity and we believe in dealing with each individual based on his/her actions and behavior and not on the basis of their status or class or Varna in society
10. It is our belief that a study of history in general and our history in particular has lessons to teach us. We make no apology therefore for our emphasis on history in these pages, and our quest to unravel an account of our history that is accurate It behooves us therefore to study history in order to cull those actions, policies, principles and values that have stood the test of time ,while at the same time learning from those instances deemed generally to be failures. In short the purpose is not so much to dwell on the 'glories' of the past but to learn and continue to be inspired so as to aspire to reach even greater heights.
11. Reverence for Knowledge, both Paara and Apaara Vidya and a determination (Thithiksha) to pursue the studies of the ancient knowledge in Sanskrtam. The manuscript wealth of India exceeds over 5 million , About a million of these have been catalogued. These staggering numbers indicate, that there is much that we are not cognizant of when it comes to the knowledge of the ancients.
12. It is our strong belief bolstered by extensive studies of our ancient scriptures, and vetted by the stringent requirements of Logic, that the single greatest gift that the Sanaatana Dharma bestows upon us is the freedom to be our Self and the freedom to exercise choices (Free will). Freedom however is accompanied by responsibilities, the responsibility to âKnow thyselfâ and to be accountable for our actions
</span>
Core values will work if both sides honor these values. Even in current situation it is one side, other side is using terror to impose its ideology on others.
If one side will just follow core value, it will bring only frustration and extinction of terrorized group.
I will blame weak leadership and lack of will to tackle problem head on.
Now days, I am watching Korean Serial "Dae Joyoung", its based on events took place between Goyoreo Dynasty and Tang dynasty in 7 th century.
Civilian ministry were always looking for peace with Tangs even it means forcefully offering King's niece or Killing its own Supreme Commander, every time they had excuse that we don't want war but peace. To purse peace they started assassinating Generals of different forts, created hurdles for defense forces. Because of frustration, supreme commanderâs son started working for Tang. At the end, I haven't seen yet but I know, according to records, civilian officials action brought down Goyoreo dynasty and finally disintegration of country.
When I watch, it always reminds me Indian civilian authority and their behavior with neighboring country.
You can never have strong country if you don't have strong defense and ready to take war to perpetratorâs home.
I won't be surprised if India disintegrates. I will put blame on weak civilian authority and especially Indian National Congress/Congress(I).
Mudy, The question is why there is weak leadership. I contend that it is weak because it is not grounded in time honored principles such as courage to do what is riight. There is no question in my mind that the current crop of leadership has lost its moorings and is not Dhaarmik. a good case in point is MMS. He is basically a good man but he is weak and is unable to take bold decisions. The only ostacleto making the right decision is himself. Courage is not high in his vocabulary..
As a nation we now subscribe to a namby pamby set of values,such as secularism, which is now elevated above all else.
I agree with you that Muslims must have a similar set of core values. It is legitimate to ask them questions like,,, what are your core values. Is reverence for human life one of them. Do they condone the taking of human life using the pretext of jihad ,,, and is it permissible as a core value. Is there a possibility that they can evolve a common set of core values with the Hindus. If not what is their plan to live in harmony with the Hindu. If there is no plan, are they prepared for the resulting hostility of at least 250 million Hindus.
Regardless of whether Muslims subscribe to a core set of values or not Hindus should subscribe to such a set of values, which includes basic values such as Courage, otherwise their survival as a civilization and as a people is at stake. When JFK said those words which i borrowed in the paragraph on Courage, people in other parts of the world paid attention, even tho may have been skeptical with the overblown rhetoric
Indians should first implement no 10, 11 in core values list.
First Indian should write their own history, Indian are reading history written by abusers or occupiers. Generations which are ruling now and in future will never have courage because their minds are tuned as slave.
Current leadership is greedy and self serving lot. They will fade away soon, I am worried about future leadership, I don't see it will be any different.
Came in email... can be posted in several different threads, here for now.
Excellent article by Tarun Vijay.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A succinct, impassioned overview by Tarun Vijay ji on the state of the polity in Bharatam.
Terror which is treason is sought to be countered (cuddled) with band-aid fixes. Collective memories of Hindu civilization are sought to be desiccated with divisive, psec politicking.
Shame on the state which cares little for the nation and civilization heritage.
If the people end up handing over control of the nation's identity to a criminalised polity (presently manipulated by an Italian prima donna and the accompanying chamcha-s), something gets surely rotten in the state.
How to transform the 'band-aid state' into a collective resolve to counter treason?
29 Aug 2007, 1130 hrs IST ,
Tarun Vijay
Bombs are deadly. They suddenly blast and even before you could know what has hit you, your body would be scattered all around in a hundred pieces. You may be having fun at a local food joint or preparing to solemnise marriage the next morning. Everything goes off in a second. Marriages turn into mourning and the enquiries are ordered.
That's the system requirement. A democratic state needs enquiry reports.
But bombs do not arrive uninvited. They are invited and sheltered and facilitated. The biggest facilitation comes from the state apparatus through the creation of an atmosphere where blasts become a routine affair so much so that people stop counting or reacting to them. The blasts, the condemnations, the expressions of deep sorrows and the steel resolves â'not to be cowed down by such dastardly acts' become so standardised like the cyclostyled copies of the municipal payment receipts we used to see in childhood days, that nobody read.
Yet they are kept as sacred documents, readily producible in future if asked âdid you pay your bills? Yes, sir. So if someone would ask our worthy leaders what did you do when your people were killed, they would smartly produce the newspaper cuttings â we condemned the incident in strongest words. Band-aid solutions. Never eliminating the cause of the hurt, never finding the permanent solutions. Just a first-aid and the matter ends like an ill-equipped public hospital treating a wounded pedestrian.
Do we remember how many of them have occurred so far? Jammu, Gandhi Nagar, Varanasi, Bangalore, Delhi, again Delhi and yet again....Hyderabad, Kolkata, Imphal, Guwahati, Coimbatore...
The one who did it in Delhi was condemned to death penalty by the Supreme Court but secular politicians wanted him to be set free. The other, a rogue politician himself, caught for the Coimbatore blasts was felicitated in a public function by the entire cabinet of a state government run by the Leftists, with the home minister in the lead, when the accused was freed on technical grounds, mainly because the state apparatus that was supposed to present proof of his involvement in the bloody incident 'failed' to do so. Have you ever heard a state cabinet felicitating a soldier's family who gave his life for defending India?
A Taslima is attacked and the victim herself is booked for the 'instigation' like a rape victim in Pakistan being accused of 'instigating' rapists to commit the act! A party in power, which takes decisions calculating an electoral win and safety of political power rather than the lives of people it is supposed to rule and protect, would even go to the extent of hobnobbing with the anti-nationals to secure their support for staying afloat in governance.
The Muslim League (ML), under Jinnah's leadership, was responsible for India's division and the subsequent massacres. Post-Independence, ML survived, though it was a political pariah like the Communist party and Lenin's memory had become in Russia. It was helped revive by the Left parties in Kerala to get Muslim votes and the first district based on a religious group's majority, a Muslim one, was created and named Mallapuram in the late fifties. Now, for the first time in our post-Independence history, the UPA invited ML to join the central government. Parties which would show no qualms in hating any group with a Hindu tag or inclination, go an extra mile to accommodate a communal Muslim party which didn't think to change its name after its condemnable role in the nation's partition. Suppose the Hindu Mahasabha, which was against Partition, was revived by Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh, saying it's a different party now, would any of them be allowed to join the mainstream?
Recently, several thousand Bangladeshi Muslim infiltrators were caught by the Arunachal Pradesh government and thrown out of the state. Immediately, the All-Assam Minorities Students Union, Assam, issued a warning that unless they are 'accommodated', they will push out all Assamese (read Hindus) from three Muslim-dominated districts of Assam â Dhubri, Goalpara and Barpeta. In no time Assam's Chief Minister issued a statement that all of these Muslims, ousted by the Arunachal government, belong to Barpeta and so shall be accommodated there. There was no enquiry that on what basis the Arunachal government has declared these people as Bangladeshis and unless the matter is settled between two Indian provinces, nothing decisive should be spoken for those declared aliens. The central government maintained a studied silence.
In Assam the prevailing perception is that any Bangladeshi can claim his or her citizenship to Barpeta, because it's a city run and controlled by Bangladeshi illegal infiltrators.
Assam is the only place on this earth where a native government enacted a foreigners' registration act which put the onus of proving a person's nationality on the police or the complainant rather than on the suspect! It was known as the Illegal Migrants (Determination by Tribunals) Act 1983 applicable to one state only so that Bangladeshi illegal infiltrators are facilitated to sneak in. The irony was that on a highway, on the left side, Assam, had one foreigners' registration act and on the right side, Meghalaya had a different one. It was struck down by the Supreme Court (SC), which admonished the government in harsh words. But with state elections nearing, a shameless government, through an executive order, amended the act, which had become uniformly applicable all over India after SC's orders, to keep the same discarded IMDT Act in vogue through backdoor. It was against the spirit of Supreme Court's orders, against the national interest, against the people of Assam. Yet it was created to get Bangladeshi infiltrators' votes. Thanks to judiciary, that amendment too was struck down by the court. But by that time the damage had already been done.
Like the central government, Assam's Congress government depends on Muslim voters to stay in power. Hence the Bangladeshi infiltrators might be aliens, but till they vote an Indian political party to stay in power, they are most welcome to grab land, take fake identity cards, and increase their population so much that now a Bangladeshi Muslim majority pocket in Assam has demanded a separate autonomous status for it so that they can run their affairs according to their wishes.
If the political parties, responsible for safeguarding the nation from aliens, act this way, who is going to stop the terrorists in an effective manner?
Just before the state elections were held in Andhra Pradesh, Naxals and Maoists were given lavish dinners by the party in power and made to stay in government guest houses in Hyderabad. Their help was also sought in winning the elections. Can a Chief Minister take action against those bandits now? What worth are his words that assure action against terror outfits when his connections and his bowing before the lawbreakers who control his vote bank, is public knowledge?
A nation living on a self-denial mode can never defeat gun runners. A polity that declares Ishrat Jahan innocent even before a police enquiry begins, which allows secessionists in Nagaland to open and run their 'free republic' headquarters and celebrate 'Independence Day' separately, which turns aliens into voters, thrives on a self-obsessed people who remain as engrossed in their routine of earning and dying as they were in the East India Company's babudom.
Strong nations move on their heritage and civilisation, whether it's Russia, China or the United States. They know who they are and who the enemy to their existence is. But here, we have a state which tries to de-recognise its civilisational moors, rather demoralises the patriotic forces ( from Kashmir to Kohima) and sleeps with the foes of our ancestral past so much so that we love to honour the memory of a bigot like Aurangzeb, the ideological 'great grand pa' of today's Taliban, by naming a major road in the Capital after him, but fear to honour Dara Shikoh, the learned scholar of Upanishads and a bridge of love between Muslims and Hindus( Japanese PM Abe quoted him in his address to Indian Parliament recently). Dara Shikoh was jailed and killed by his brother Aurangzeb and his grave lies unheard, uncared for in the precincts of Jama Masjid, New Delhi, where even the fashionable heritage-walkers of the NDMC-Habitat variety do not visit.
The state finds it fulfilling to guard the remnants of those who assaulted Indian civilisational state, romanticise the memories of conquistadors-who razed temples and build mosques over it like the one called Quwwat-ul-Islam Mosque popularly known a Qutub Minar, where an introduction by the Archaeological Survey of India tells all, but fails to reinstate temples destroyed by jihadis in the Valley or protect a shrine and a bridge connected with the memories of Ram.
So, after every blast, band-aid prescriptions and similar analyses are of no use unless the real spirit of the nation is recognised and nourished. Huntington wrote 'Who are We ? and answered the character of the American nationhood without apologies. Do we know who we are and the destiny of the nation that we are entrusted to realise? Then alone the state can fulfil its commitment to eliminate the hands that turn marriages into mourning. And this can be achieved with a united front of all- no matter which religion or province one belongs to. Because the battle is between Indians and India-haters. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Aug 29 2007, 12:16 AM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Aug 29 2007, 12:16 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->in AP (minus-telangana) how much % population would the muslim?
Mudy ji, great find.
[right][snapback]72600[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Aug 30 2007, 09:07 AM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Aug 30 2007, 09:07 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Aug 29 2007, 12:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bodhi @ Aug 29 2007, 12:16 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->in AP (minus-telangana) how much % population would the muslim?
Mudy ji, great find.
[right][snapback]72600[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Telengana, muslims = 15%
Regarding the above figure, I believe 80% of this 15% is just Hyderabad and outskirts.
AP gettoized Muslims succesfully. So far the blasts(including the recent blasts) and riots are just in the vicinity of the Old City(take half a Km here and there). No police on earth could stop the riots if something happens outside this circle. I cannot imagine blasts in areas like Secunderabad or far off places like Jublee Hills etc.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->So far the blasts(including the recent blasts) and riots are just in the vicinity of the Old City(take half a Km here and there). <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because they are in high concentration they keep riots in their area. Same trend one can see in Agra, Delhi, Meerut, Aligarh, Khujara etc where Muslims are concentrated in old town. They can start riots any time of the day with or without any reason. One can't predict when it will happen.
But where they have low count, on average they do mini trouble, which build up anger towards them, when they tried riots in those area, they gets worst beating and then they make biggest noise as they did in Gujarat and other states.
My taxi driver told me that in the old days the Muslims were riot prone but by the 90s the local Hindus had enforced some sort of cooperation by replying in kind. Another factor was that Gulf jobs had exported a large amount of alientated IMs. Let me explain myself.
During the Mughal rule an unexplored issues was the issue of slavery. Many Turco-Afghans were brought over and settled as retainers of the Mughals and the Nizam. They maintained a separate identity and community and did not feel the affinity for the land. It was these elements that formed the backbone of the Razakar movement and most have left to either TSP or the Gulf areas. There were even African bodyguards from the Muslim regions of Africa called Siddis. Some have assimilated from this group.But its the TAP dregs that riot. And are subject to retaliation by the locals.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->. Another factor was that Gulf jobs had exported a large amount of alientated IMs. Let me explain myself.
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I think current increase in riots are due to appeasement policies of state govt. Indian Muslims once again going back to old style that is rioting. Gujarat gave them big shocker. Anger among Hindus are building up after frequent terrorist bombing. In every bombing case Muslims are involved, it is matter of time when Muslim will try again something like Godhara and that will trigger biggest unrest.
To build up mass reaction it takes time. 1984 riots or Gujarat are one of those examples. Whether any political parties were involved or not, in both riots mass silently supported rioters and they found it as release of anger.
Why no riots in Hyderabad? Nothing to with police or public is very sane and balanced, absolutely not, anger is building up. When volcano will burst? It depends on pressure they will receive. When this happen neither police nor admin will stop riots as it happened in 1984 or Gujarat or anywhere in world.
Ramana:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It was these elements that formed the backbone of the Razakar movement and most have left to either TSP or the Gulf areas. There were even African bodyguards from the Muslim regions of Africa called Siddis. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I too have heard of this from a friend originating from Hyderbad. Couple years (90s) back he was doing a tour of some Nizam palaces and strayed into in a restricted area. He was immediately surrounded by some soldiers on horseback with swords. They looked out of place (as in not local to any place in India) and didn't communicate in known Indian languages. They escorted him out on sword-tip while yelling in some foreign language. His tour guide then explained that Nizam's and his queen's closest guards were either Turks or Siddis. I found it strange that even after a few centuries, they relied on 'outside' protection - as if there was no trust amongst local/late converts. Fodder for another thread, had to put it out there since some of you from AP could shed more light.
Regarding Hyd, here is my take.( I am out of the City for the past 10 years but my entire family is in Hyd.) Note:I am only writing my observations. May not be accurate.
In the 70s Hyderabad and Secunderabad has fairly large number of Muslim population. If you take the entire population there were almost on the lines of 45% of the twin cities. However, in 60s as per my Dad Muslims used to be a majority. Most of the non-muslim population of this era is from entire India. No doubt that this city being the capital of AP there are many Andhraites(including a large section of Telanganaites as Hyd falls under Telangana geographically). There are many colonies like Sindhi colony full of Sindis. A very large section of Marwaris, Sikhs etc are also there. Largest non-Telugu populations is from Maharastra. Most of the Maharastrians here are of Nagapur origin.
In 80s and 90s, as is the case with any other state capital, this city started growing fast. In addtion, those days all the defence establishments used to be in the south. There are many central government agencies like NRSA, IDPL, NFC, ECIL, DRDO etc are established. This made Secunderabad part of the twin cities occupied by large scale governement employees and businesses grew around. Sametime Hyd expanded into districts like Rangareddy, Karimnagar and Medak due to BHEL, HAL etc. Jeedimetla has become small scale industrial complex. More people from other parts of AP moved in a rapid pace during this time.
Late 90s and 21st century is a different ball game. The spike of development in terms of infrastructure and IT parks etc is unprecedented. Couple of months back they combined many panchayats, municipalities into Greater Hyderabad. The area of Hyderabad currently is with a diameter of about 200km. The government claims that this is larger than Shanghai. (I have no statistics to prove/disprove). Population wise it is again with pan-Indian population from all states and sections. Telugu population also grew as is always the case. Now Hyd city encompasses portions of Hyd, Mahaboobnagar, Karimnagar, Nalgonda, Medak and Rangareddy districts. It is possible that Telangana region's GDP will be more due to Industries than Agriculture.
During all the time, Muslims remained static in terms of population with respect to other rapidly increasing demographies. Hyderabadi muslim is different from other parts of south and also North. Rich Muslims can be compared to rape class of TSP. They never consider themselves as Indians forever. MIM is this class. As in the case with TSP they kept the poorer sections to madrasas and jehadi culture for political purposes. To be fair to them there are many organizations that came among them to improve their social status. Due to their education, the Muslim population occupied low-skilled jobs in the city and most of the times their residences are always in the central Hyderabad also called as old city. That is why crap comes here and lives here.
Why riots are difficult in current Hyderabad?
The demographic shift is in such a shape that the newer sections of the city and also the Secunderabad part of the twin cities has muslims to the order of 15% or less. Large scale growth of other political parites and socially powerful groups in these aras will make Muslims very vulenarable in these areas of the city.
In late 80s and 90s during the riots in Old City, muslims in secunderabad used to take the brunt of rampaging hindu crowds. This is an unwritten balance and understanding in the city. Now the balance is further tilted and it will be the question of survival in case of riots for muslims. Hence it is very difficult (not completely ruled out) to start rioting.
Muppalla that was avery good and consice description of whats happening in Hyd. yes I know the person in charge of GHMA quite well. The paln is to make Hyd the third largest city in area and population. They have incorporated an area equal to that of Singapore. The dream is to make it a new metropolis. And that means getting rid of old ideas and hangups. Yes he plans to fix the problems and has not taken up the higher job at Center.
BTW, x-posting from BR as it is relevant here. Rearranged chronologically.
E-Mail Discussion between some members:
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P Wrote
I guess it's not a surprise to hear that Hyderabad has changed in the last decade or so. As is the common case with a economically vibrant city, hyderabad attracted a lot of folks from surrounding areas and the population grew tremendously. New people bring their own culture, and hyderabad changed. Hyderabad used to be a unique city in india in a lot of ways. Back in the 80s/90s,
It's part of south india, but perhaps only city where north indians felt comfortable to live and work in. People in madras, didn't know hindi and were somewhat hostile to north indians. While Bangalore was a nice city, language problems existed and there wasn't a decent sized north indian community. It's part of andhra pradesh, but people from andhra were intimidated to visit hyderabad. The indimidation factor ? Language problem We used to share a joke, that hyderabad is one place where to telugu natives meet and converse in hindi. Hindi (or Urdu - my words) was *the* language, Auto drivers acted as if they didn't understand telugu, rickshaw drivers had that unique "lungi with belt" look adopted by amitabh in desh premee. There were just as many theatres playing hindi movies as there were for telugu. In fact, the top movie theatre in hyderabad during the 80s (Maheshwari/Parameshwari) rarely played telugu movies! Old city was really old, I mean 400 years old. Old city meant, charminar and south of charminar. City center was Kothi, Abids, Nampally, Basheerbagh. I guess i can keep listing some of these things, but there was a character to the city. It was not a hustly bustly north indian city, nor it was culturally inward focused south indian town/city. Hyderabadi hindi was different, hyderabadi attitude was different. In short, Hyderabad and hyderabadis, were unique.
Today, the city is centered at Panjagutta, somajiguda, Khairatabad (prasads + ntr garden), begumpet, ameerpet areas. Abids is not crowded. Roads near LB stadium, basheerbagh are relatively free of traffic compared to panjagutta chowrasta. We could drive through sultan bazaar, find parking, get our shopping done with literally no crowds on a weekday evening. We had much harder time parking in hyderabad central. Hindi is accepted these days, but the language of choice is telugu. Very few hindi movies play and even those don't play for very long. I doubt, if we'll see sholay run for 365 continuous days in the present day hyderabad or even deewar playing for 100 days.
This hyderabad, feels a lot like a big vijayawada. May be more open and welcoming to all cultures and languages, but it feels like a distinctly telugu city trying to become a metro, than a historical hindu/muslim city that is a cultural bridge.
I guess these changes are good and economic boom is great. I am just being a bit nostalgic. The hyderabadi unique character is now missing in hyderabad.
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On 10/25/06, R wrote:
Yes. When I was there in last July what we found was that there was a large rural population celebrating the Bonnalu for Durga. The were doing it Mumbai style with collections etc. Twenty years ago such an event was for the lower classes in a subdued manner. Now even the CM and Oppo leaders attend the pandals. The upper classes are not so overt in displaying thier piety. I encoruaged quite few people to support the bonnalu.
The city center is shifting towards Punjagutta and Jubilee Hills towards High Tech City. In another 20 years it might move further leaving old Hyderabad as Puran Quila.
At same time there are a large number of Churches in urban houses and enroute to Bhadrachalam.
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Question:
What were the reasons for the Nizam's dominions to be split in Karnataka, Maharashtra, and AP?
Did the state consider it too dangerous for the Muslim power base to stay consolidated in one state. If that indeed was one of the objectives, then it does seem to be working as it has weakened the Islamist power base in the Deccan by dividing the population and thus making it easier for the individual states to deal with them.
On 10/26/06,R wrote:
The stated reasons were to give linguistic majority areas contiguity preference. I also think it has created a Westphalian construct in India which has preserved peace and stability. But Savarkar in his letters from Andaman, was worried that such linguistic states could foster centrifugal forces. Only TN with its Dravidian concepts is the issue. Couple that with SL Tamil insurrection.
If you look at history of the Bahmani, the successor states and Vijayanagara kingdoms you see that the Nizam got a lot of territory which shouldnt be in is possession. Telengana suffered a lot of dhimmitude. I dont know how Osmanabad etc are in Maharashtra and Karnataka.
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P wrote:
Wrt to the discussion we had on Hyderabad, is it possible that one reason for so many blasts in Hyderabad is the muslim frustruation at getting gerrymandered and losing their privileges there. What I mean to say is that while IM angst at the nuke is okay, but their are local factors at play here too due to which Hyderabad is a fertile ground for sleeper cells.
Why are we not seeing similar things happening in Bhopal (which AFAIK also has a substantial IM pop). Why is Bhopal such a tranquil place compared to Hyd?
