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Christian subversion and missionary activities -2

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Christian subversion and missionary activities -2
<span style='color:red'>1984 World Mission Expenditure for the Top Twenty US Missionary Organizations With Operations in India

Southern Baptist Convention US $136,43,351

World Vision $83,647,492

General Conference of Seventh-Day Adventists $70,155,000

Assemblies of God, Foreign Missions $56,799,964

Churches of Christ $52,000,000

Wycliffe Bible Translators $36,815,000

United Methodist Church World Program Division $23,155,592

Campus Crusade for Christ International $20,000,000

Church of the Nazarene World Mission Division $17,589,000

The Evangelical Alliance Mission $16,597,341

Christian Churches/Churches of Christ $15,598,000

Map International $14,180,651

Trans World Radio $13,600,000

Compassion International $13,417,125

Presbyterian Church USA Program Agency $13,104,468

Christian and Missionary Alliance $12,416,451

Baptist Bible Fellowship International $12,407,803

Conservative Baptist Foreign Mission Society $12,307,902

Lutheran World Relief, Inc. $11,170,396

Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod Mission Services $10,801,563

<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>TOTAL $505,763,748 </b>

</span></span>

Note: . The above information is from the 13th edition of Mission Handbook, published by MARC, Monrovia, California.
<b>Chocolate Jesus show canceled </b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->NEW YORK - A planned Holy Week exhibition of a nude, anatomically correct chocolate sculpture of Jesus Christ was canceled Friday after Cardinal Edward Egan and other outraged Catholics complained.

The "My Sweet Lord" display was shut down by the hotel that houses the Lab Gallery in midtown Manhattan. Roger Smith Hotel president James Knowles cited the public outcry for his decision
..............

But word of the confectionary Christ infuriated Catholics, including Egan, who described it as "a sickening display." Bill Donohue, head of the watchdog Catholic League, said it was "one of the worst assaults on Christian sensibilities ever."
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Do they call them fundamentalist?
Here is the image of Jesus with frontal view http://www.cosimocavallaro.com/

Personally, I dont support such display, which no doubt is offensive to Christians. But more importantly, Hindus and others should learn to effectively protest when similar attacks happen on their respected figures.

One such case in point is MF Hussain's paintings, in which he has repeatedly displayed Hindu icons of respect like Bharatmata, Durga, Saraswati, Sita, Lakshmi, Durga, Draupadi etc naked. Those who consider these artistic should remember he has portayed Mother Teresa too, but with complete clothing, and he has never portayed any Muslim figures such as Ayesha or even Muhammed himself, or Mariyam/Mary etc. Also to remember is, instead of opposing such a criminal, whom even Delhi High Court has sent notices of offense, Mumbai police has purchased his paintings and these proudly grace the reception of Maharashtra Police HQ in Mumbai.
Now we have to see how many bus they will burn on this issue in India. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Apr 1 2007, 12:23 AM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Apr 1 2007, 12:23 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Also to remember is, instead of opposing such a criminal, whom even Delhi High Court has sent notices of offense, Mumbai police has purchased his paintings and these proudly grace the reception of Maharashtra Police HQ in Mumbai.
[right][snapback]66403[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

There must be a hinjra in charge of Maharastra police. And I used to think Maharastra police was one of India's finest. I think the day would come soon when these hinjras would be shot in the back of their heads.
So Hindus have to roughly face about a $5 Billion assault by Xtian nuts per year.
(Assuming inflation etc. makes the amount 10 times higher than 1984).

Any estimates on Saudi Arabia's terrorist ( I mean Islamic) contributions. I am guessing it's another $5 Billion / year at least. I think with India's rapid industrialization, these numbers can be diluted easily.

The catholic church and Euro xtianity is collapsing. We should rejoice that one of the greatest criminal hate mongers who constantly have been attacking us will be facing the wrath of terrorist muslims. With Euro Xtian nuts out, only the U.S. Xtian wacko's will be working India.



<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->So Hindus have to roughly face about a $5 Billion assault by Xtian nuts per year.
(Assuming inflation etc. makes the amount 10 times higher than 1984).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->It's far more than that now. Hang it, where did I read about the expenditure of American christos in India?
In any case, they have a lot more money to spend, because, what with their global christochannels, stealing diamonds from mines in Africa (Pat Robertson) and other nefarious enterprises, US christos have a lot of money to burn. Would that they were actually burning it...

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->We should rejoice that one of the greatest criminal hate mongers who constantly have been attacking us will be facing the wrath of terrorist muslims.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->But because much of Europe is not christian, it's rather sad that they are being besieged by islam now, rather than in a more devout century (the colonial era would have been the best).
There are a lot of really good people in Europe who could die in that encounter. But then, we can't even protect our own good people from the sword of islam, what can we do for any others in this world?
If they were to help protect us from christianity (by banning missionary money say, or working against/exposing missionaries and christo converts' terrorism), maybe we would have time to help neutralise islam which would benefit the whole world. Oh well, we'll never know, I guess.
It's official now:
Pope: Hell 'really exists'
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Pope Benedict XVI says Hell -- despite being typically overlooked in today's society -- "really exists and is eternal."</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and ofcourse there's the official, official version:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Vatican officials said the pope intended to reinforce the new Catholic catechism teaching that that Hell is a "state of eternal separation from God," to be understood "symbolically rather than physically."
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Apr 1 2007, 12:23 AM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Apr 1 2007, 12:23 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Here is the image of Jesus with frontal view http://www.cosimocavallaro.com/

Personally, I dont support such display, which no doubt is offensive to Christians.  But more importantly, Hindus and others should learn to effectively protest when similar attacks happen on their respected figures.[right][snapback]66403[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yes, it is rather offensive. Even I winced at it. But I can steel myself. I must learn to be past the point of caring about their sensibilities, because they have never shown any respect for ours. Rather the very opposite, having trampled all over it by making equally offensive depictions either in word or in image of our cherished beliefs, traditions and deities.
We must learn to show respect where respect has been consistently given and ignore other cases. There has been none worthwhile from the christoislamic quarter, except the occasional heretic christian or borderline-kafir muslim who extended their sympathies.
Let the christians fight their own battles. I care nothing for jeebus anyway.
How western people depict their (formerly) adopted deity jeebus is of no concern to me. If it offends christo sensibilities, it's still of no matter to me - I didn't make the offending article.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->One such case in point is MF Hussain's paintings, in which he has repeatedly displayed Hindu icons of respect like Bharatmata, Durga, Saraswati, Sita, Lakshmi, Durga, Draupadi etc naked.  Those who consider these artistic should remember he has portayed Mother Teresa too, but with complete clothing, and he has never portayed any Muslim figures such as Ayesha or even Muhammed himself, or Mariyam/Mary etc.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Now see, this is a case of an islamoterrorist making vile representations of our Gods. This is a major point of variance with the chocolate jeebus incident above. That wasn't made by muslims or anything, but apparently by christians themselves for "the holy week".
Also, the pseculars and other christians in India commented how Hindus were 'making a scene' by protesting against Hussein's garbage. Let's hope they don't show themselves to be hypocrites as they always do by 'making a scene' themselves. But I think it's too late for that.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Also to remember is, instead of opposing such a criminal (Hussein), whom even Delhi High Court has sent notices of offense, Mumbai police has purchased his paintings and these proudly grace the reception of Maharashtra Police HQ in Mumbai.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Add to it that the usual psecular villains are agitating for MF Hussein to receive the Bharat Ratna award for his offenses heaped against Hindu deities - they have petitioned the much put-upon President Abdul Kalam about it.

If Hussein ever gets it, and he could what with christos and other pseculars in charge of the country, I hope they will posthumously take away the award from M.S. Subbulakshmi (and other Hindus) who I am certain would not have wished to share it with such a character as Hussein.
<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Apr 1 2007, 08:47 AM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Apr 1 2007, 08:47 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->It's official now:
Pope: Hell 'really exists'
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Pope Benedict XVI says Hell -- despite being typically overlooked in today's society -- "really exists and is eternal."</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->[right][snapback]66416[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Don't you just love Ratty and JPII? Everything Angelo Roncalli did is now out the window. (He was pope John the 23rd I think, and the only one I ever liked, but that was long ago. But even he had some nasty skeletons in his closet.
<b>EDIT:</b> Yupp, look for 'Roncalli' on this page http://freetruth.50webs.org/D1.htm ).

Roncalli threw out exorcism, basically implying that it was all nonsense. The Church had no more exorcists for a long time. Then came JPII and he reintroduced exorcism. Roncalli was also the one I think who indicated that hell was just an allegory. And here comes Ratty with 'Be afraid. Hell is real. You heretics and heathens will buuuuuuuuuurn. Forevahhhhh.'
Roncalli was also the one that took the step towards proclaiming that there <i>might</i> be salvation outside the church... maybe even outside christianity (gasp!) with the amendments in the Vatican II document/discourse.
Then JPII had Ratty draw up Dominus Iesus where this was repudiated, returning the church to the pre-Roncalli state.

I knew many in the church didn't and don't like Roncalli and were glad when he died and his term was finally over - he <i>was</i> a rather unorthodox (to say the least), uber-liberal pope in many respects. But to make it as if he never existed by undoing all his reforms.... that's plain offensive. They're treating him like he never existed, or even as if he were one of the heretic popes. I wouldn't be surprised if, as happened to heretic popes before him, a later pope were to order his body dug up and burnt for heresy.

Shame, he was popular in my kindy school (not India). In my view, he was really the best pope the church has offered, unless one counts a pope Celestine I think it was, who was soooo goody-two-shoes (frugal, non-extravagant, celibate, non-autocratic, so unpopish that he wasn't greedy and wouldn't steal others' lands or wealth) that his bishops and cardinals and priests conspired to do him in. They imprisoned him and then stabbed or poisoned him. He was a bad pope according to them. Yeah, such a one makes a bad christian in general.
Thanks Husky,
Learning lot from your post.
<b>Violence rocks Madhya Pradesh cities, 24 injured</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Two persons were injured in stray incidents of violence on Sunday night as members of a community, who alleged that stones were pelted at their houses, tore flags erected for an Eid-e-Milad-un-Nabi procession.

One person was arrested and sent to jail while cases for inciting communal hatred were registered against some eight persons.

<b>Twelve people were injured in Jabalpur as Hindu activists and members of the Christian community clashed last night after allegations of forced religious conversions were made by Hindu groups. </b>

Twenty-five activists of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and Dharam Sena were booked for violence in Dhamapur, while a complaint was filed against members of the Christian community, police said.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://www.seesharppress.com/20reasons.html
<b>20 Reasons to Abandon Christianity </b>
In the communists thread, Mudy just posted an article that Dr. Babu Suseelan wrote. It reminded me of the following article also authored by him. I don't know if everyone has already read this, but in case some may have missed it, I put it here, because it is very important:

http://conversionagenda.blogspot.com/2005/...l-genocide.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Stop the cultural genocide</b>
Dr Babu Suseelan

There are many ways of destroying a nation. One of the methods is to destroy the religion and cultural institutions of the nation. This was the case in Egypt, Mesopotamia, Babylon and Greece. Now remnant of this ancient civilization exists only in western museums.

For centuries Hindu culture has survived challenges from Islamic invaders and Christian colonists. Hindus kept their religious practices, temples, cultural institutions and heritage by preserving religious symbols, myths, legends, stories and cultural artifacts. Temple rituals, religious artifacts and samskaras are important part of our heritage. They affirm our common patterns, the values and customs that bind us together. Hindu temples, symbols, myths and artifacts link together our ancestors and descendants, those who went before with those who will come after us. It helps people to face together their destiny. Temples introduce younger generation to ideals and values and they generate spiritual energy and beauty. Generation after generation, Hindu temples have been a source of inspiration and spiritual strength. For many years Hindu temples and religious institutions were preserved and protected by faithful and committed believers.

How times have changed! Now Hindu culture is facing new challenges. Our enemies know that Hindus cannot be cowed into submission. Hindus cannot be pushed around anymore. So they are devising devious and tricky strategies. One strategy is to smuggle Hindu religious and cultural artifacts out of India. Hindu religious, cultural artifacts, temple deities and priceless gold ornaments are smuggled out of India with the active participation of foreign smugglers. Bronze artifacts, made before the 2nd century, expensive silver and gold artifacts, antique swords made of ivory, ceremonial lamps, bronze statues, beautiful ivory carvings, elephants made out of gold stone, bronze and gold sculptures of Vishnu, Shiva and Parvathy, which vary from six inches tall to those six feet or more in height are regularly smuggled out of India. Fifth century bronze statue of Sri Buddha meditating in the lotus position, statue of Sri Ganesha relaxing on his throne, ancient bow and arrow made of bronze, gold incense burner, flute, harp made in the 8th century and Nataraja statue made in the 6th century fill America's wealthy investors` living rooms and prestigious auction houses in London Paris and New York.

Many stolen artifacts are exquisitely made with abstract and floral images. Hindu temple deities are not the only wares being sought by western investors. Auctioneers also seek strong interest in Jaipur arts, temple carvings and precious ancient gold jewels with religious values. Strong interest in temple sculpture was demonstrated at auction houses in New York, London, Zurich, Paris and Frankfurt. Recently large deities of God Nataraja and Goddesses Meenakshi were sold for record amounts in London. Western buyers are interested in gold artifacts; ceremonial swords made for Maharajas, necklaces, gold plaque, and ancient gold and silver coins. Antique arts are also smuggled out of India frequently. They fetch high prices in Europe and America. Major auction houses in London, Paris, Geneva and New York are describing Hindu religious art as one of their strongest sale items. Recently Sanskrit sutras written in ancient palm leaves, old Ayurvedic texts written in Sanskrit and old temple carvings were smuggled out of Kerala and sold in Germany at record prices.

Westerners are attracted to Hindu deities, cultural artifacts and religious icons not because of the purity and beauty and its spiritual values but as an investment opportunity. But for Hindus and spiritual minded people all over the world, these religious deities and icons are important part of heritage. Religious and cultural artifacts are the expression of all the knowledge, myths, legends and wisdom accumulated throughout our history. These precious religious symbols are emotionally nourishing and intellectually stimulating. These cultural robbers are amputating our history, destroying our spiritual bonds and disconnecting our history. These priceless items are our symbols of cosmological and historical consciousness. They generate powerful spiritual values and act as a fruitful symbiosis and express human harmony. Temple deities and cultural artifacts affirm the value of our spiritual heritage and inner strength. They introduce new insight, vision and courage. It is a constant source of inspiration and vitality.

Research studies indicate that creativity is a positive function of the availability of arts, literature, myths, religious symbols, cultural artifacts and legends of previous generations. Hence cultural continuity, spiritual tradition and religious practices are essential for political stability and social unity.

<b>Disloyal pseudo secular political leaders</b>
It is the policy, belief, and practices of the people at power that encourage smugglers and cultural robbers. The chief trait of the situation in India is the cultural pollution. The active disloyalty of secularists, and communist hostility towards Hindu civilization is a fact of recent history. But beneath this disloyalty is another indisputable fact. Pseudo secularists have ruled India since 1947 under an anti-Hindu constitution. They still regard Hindu heritage as inferior and marginal. These phony secularists seem to believe that Hindu culture has nothing of perennial value. Their pseudo secularism and moral agnosticism are used invariably to cast India as regressive. Acting and abetting these disloyal politicians are the communists, Muslims and Christian leaders. They lead the innocent into the arms of cultural robbers, and anti national smugglers. These subversive activities suggest a moment of unusual foreign influence and cultural pollution that provide opportunities to smuggle priceless religious artifacts out of India.

<b>Hidden agenda</b>
One may also wonder whether smuggling of Hindu religious and cultural artifacts is part of large schemes to destroy our religion and squeeze wealth out of India. This deliberate attempt to smuggle Hindu deities and cultural valuables may also be an attempt to disrupt Hindu cultural continuity and destroy Hindu religious pride.

<b>Government inaction</b>
Self-obliterating India has the sorriest of records in preserving and protecting Hindu temples and cultural artifacts. This inaction is an opportunity for cultural genocide. There can be a number of causes for this deliberate blindness of the government to stop this smuggling and destruction of Hindu culture. A French philosopher once said, "Decadence is worse than dictatorship". It means a distorted secular Indian government is worse than colonialism.

<b>Agenda for action</b>
There are other false assumptions about India's policy that must be challenged. One is that Hindus are passive, indifferent, and inactive and cannot preserve and protect our religion and culture. The worst mistake of all is to assume that Hindu religion is eternal and will survive without protection. There is no excuse for neglecting our temples, cultural artifacts and religious monuments.

A clear and good public, religious, institutional and government bond is essential to prevent large-scale smuggling of Hindu treasures. Hindus need to reaffirm their faith in their spiritual heritage and cultural tradition. Intellectuals who stand to the left or to the right on the political spectrum should initiate strategies to educate the public the importance of committing to the rich tradition and heritage. An appreciation of Hindu heritage and values is the beginning step to preserve our religious treasures. Smuggling, anti-social activities, cultural pollution and religious conversion occur when people live in a moral and religious vacuum. Indian political leaders should declare that they stand for preserving our cultural heritage and religious institutions. In a transforming world of globalization, a nation, which tries to preserve its tradition, will be uniquely identified as a great nation forever. Our religion, heritage, culture and treasures are sacred. The government has a responsibility and an obligation to preserve, protect and promote it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Marx this: Pope quotes Left's god</b>
Finally, church acknowledges ideological love between Marx and church.
Now if we connect dots.
We always say there is a link between Church, Marx, Leftist/Communist and third world countries.
In west Church is always align with right wing and in underdeveloped or developing countries they use leftist/communist to do their dirt work.
How convenient?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>EX-BISHOP ADMITS THAT CHRISTIANITY IS INSANE </b>
The Times April 5 2007
Crucifixion "makes God into a psychopath"
The conventional explanation of the Crucifixion is illogical, insane and makes God sound like a psychopath, according to one of the country’s most controversial clergymen.

The Very Rev Jeffrey John, the Dean of St Albans, attacked the doctrine of penal substitution – the idea that God sent Jesus to earth to suffer for our sins – during a Lent talk on BBC Radio 4 last night.

Dr John was forced to stand down as Bishop of Reading in 2003 after it emerged that he was homosexual. Evangelists last night rounded on his views as bordering on heresy.

In his radio lecture Dr John revealed that he had taken issue with the traditional teaching of the Crucifixion from a young age.

<b>He said: “What sort of God was this, getting so angry with the world and the people he created, and then, to calm himself down, demanding the blood of his own Son? </b>

“<b>And anyway, why should God forgive us through punishing somebody else? It was worse than illogical, it was insane. It made God sound like a psychopath.” </b> <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

A spokesman for the BBC said: “Lent Talks are short, individual authored opinions in which the contributor is invited to reflect on a different part of Christ’s Passion.”
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did anyone else catch this? I totally missed it.

In trying to locate the news report Mudy mentions above, I just found the following news, also in the Times.

Here goes, the first of the two news reports:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/f...icle1542945.ece
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->March 20, 2007
<b>Archer, the story-teller, turns pen to Judas</b>

Jesus never turned water into wine, He did not walk on the water and He never calmed the storm on the Sea of Galilee, according to a new 'Gospel' published today with Vatican approval and co-authored by Jeffrey Archer, the convicted perjurer.

The Gospel According to Judas is being launched at the prestigious Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. Written by Lord Archer with one of the Pope's top theological advisers, Professor Francis Moloney, <b>the 'fifth Gospel'</b> is being regarded by senior Catholics as a way of bringing the Christian gospel to Lord Archer's 125 million readers.

Many churchgoers will be surprised at the Church's overt backing for a book that debunks some of Jesus's best-known miracles in the run-up to Easter. The Gospel According to Judas is also being backed by the Roman Catholic Church in England, with a launch planned for tomorrow at Westminster Cathedral.

But in interviews with The Times, both Father Moloney and Lord Archer said they did not include Jesus's three most famous 'nature miracles', beloved of Sunday School children worldwide, in The Gospel because they "<b>never happened</b>".

Nor did they include the most famous Judas story of all, where he is reported in the Bible to have betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. The betrayal took place, they say, but no cash changed hands.

<b>Although the idea that Jesus's miracles did not happen and were pure invention have been common in academic circles for decades, for many of the faithful it will still come as a shock.</b>

<b>Father Moloney, believed by many to be the world's greatest living Biblical scholar,</b> <b>drew on years of scholarship to make The Gospel According to Judas as close as possible to those passages thought to be genuine in the three synoptic gospels and the Gospel of St John.</b> <b>But he insisted they leave out verses agreed by scholars to have been made up by the original authors of the Bible.</b>

The partnership with Lord Archer, which began in a Rome restaurant called The Two Thieves, almost collapsed when the best-selling author attempted to inject unbelievable elements of fiction into the story of Jesus's life, death and resurrection. Father Moloney agreed that the story-teller could invent a plausible ending to Judas' life but drew the line at the author's dream of giving Judas a death-bed conversion to Christianity.

Father Moloney told The Times that he did consider Jesus to have been a 'miracle worker'. But he had studied the Bible all his life, and had become convinced that some of Jesus's miracles were invented by the early Church.

Turning water into wine at a wedding feast came "out of a profound desire to show that Jesus, like the God of Israel, is the messianic giver of all good things". Walking on water and calming the seas stemmed from a desire to prove that Jesus had the same mastery over nature as the God of the Hebrew Bible.

Father Moloney said that he had no doubts over the resurrection, however. That was not a miracle by Jesus, that was what God did for His son: "What is official Church teaching is that in the person of Jesus, the divine has entered history."
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->(About very last paragraph above) Yeah, right. We believe them, with their wonderful track-record for the truth: 'most of what we've been teaching for > 1.5 millennia is a lie, sheep. But believe us when we say that the resurrection <i>is</i> still true. (Tomorrow we'll change our premise again...)'
And 'baaa baaa' go the faithful sheep in unison, while others wake up and become human again.


Article continued on p2:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/f...=null&offset=12
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Father Moloney said that when he started working with Lord Archer, although he knew he had been to jail, he was not aware of how he was regarded by many in Britain - "I am certainly aware now." He had read some of his novels, such as Kane and Abel, and "enjoyed them very much".

They worked together closely for a year. "I found him an incredibly hard-working man. There was intense collaboration. I always admire a man who really works hard and he does."

He added: "I really admire his honesty and integrity. That is the exact opposite of what everybody says about Jeffrey Archer. And I am sure he is a bit of a villain, I would not doubt that, but my personal experience of him has been nothing but quality workmanship and a very high respect for me and my person and for who I am as a Roman Catholic priest."

He also admired Lord Archer's willingness to capitulate over their "three or four major conflicts".

He said: "On one occasion the whole project nearly got dropped. We never had yelling matchings but he is a story-teller. I insisted that what was in this Gospel might not be probable, but it must be possible.

"He was really anxious to have some sort of final deathbed conversion of Judas. I said that would make a wonderful ending, but it could never have happened."

Lord Archer, who has given few interviews since he was released in 2003 after he served two years of a four-year sentence for lying and cheating in a 1987 libel case against the Daily Star, told The Times that neither serving time in jail nor writing the book had affected his faith.

Nor did he identify in any way with the character of Judas himself. He was attracted by the 'mystery' of the story. He has been a practising Anglican since childhood and his wife, Mary, sings in the choir at Grantchester.

"We are pretty normal," he said. "A lot of it [Christianity] remains a mystery for me. Working with one of the world's leading minds on the subject has not made it any easier. When you are being taught on a daily basis for a year by such a clever person the mystery grows. Sometimes it is much easier to understand. Sometimes it is clear. But a lot of the time it becomes more complicated because you start thinking about things you have never thought about before. My own faith, my own beliefs - a lot of it is itself a mystery."

He said that he had never had a religious experience in his life. <b>"Meeting Mother Teresa was frightening enough. That was highly terrifying. She made Margaret Thatcher look like a wimp,"</b> he said.

He had wanted to write The Gospel According to Judas for 15 years but was told he needed a good collaborator. Eventually an old friend, Father Michael Seed, famed for bringing high-profile converts known as 'Seedlings' into the Roman Catholic Church, effected an introduction to Cardinal Martini.

Cardinal Martini suggested the Australian Salesian monk, Father Moloney, a close friend of the present Pope and for years one of his theological advisers in Rome. Father Moloney has recently returned to his home country having been made provincial, or head, of the Salesian order for the region. The theologian will be giving his share of the royalties to a charitable project; his co-author will be keeping his.

Lord Archer confessed that one gift prison had given him was an awareness of how fortunate he was. Speaking in his penthouse on the Álbert Embankment, overlooking the Thames, he said: "There is not a day I do not get up and look out of that window and think, you are a lucky boy."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Catholic church has apparently seen the influence <i>and</i> economic gains to be had from Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code.

The above and the next news article on this topic (see post 159 below), make lots of very interesting points. They can be placed in four categories:
(1) GREEN: It's a case of Roman Church-approved modern creation of new fiction gospel - just like the fiction 'gospel' writers of the early centuries.
Church is back to its old late 2nd-4th century mode of churning out christo-novels ('gospels') in mass numbers. All on the same theme; all variations on the same plot even: the jeebus plot.
(2) RED: Why is Roman Church supporting this new gospel/book? They hope it will attract more readers = more converts (sheep) = more fools = more power and money.
Reasons may be:
- Hopes to appeal to a different kind of people. The Church already has the blind-faith believer permanently caught in christo-net (they won't accept this book, so church is secure in knowing they won't become 'lost' sheep). Now it wants to catch others.
- It's a skeptical millennium, fewer people believe in the miracles of jeebus which are plagiarized from earlier (pagan) religions anyway. The Church thinks debunking miracles will catch the skeptics?
(3) PURPLE: Church finally recognises the primary need to absolve Judas which babble readers have cited forever: that judas made possible gawd's plan to kill christ in order to 'save' mankind. Without judas, gawd's plan wouldn't have gone through.
At last Church has realised that judas was a key pawn in their fable and now, after over 1.5 millennia of making judas 'the arch-villain assuredly inhabiting hell', Church wants him redeemed. It makes christoterrorism seem more compassionate and finally fit its thus-far unimplemented moral: 'forgive your enemies'.
(4) BLUE: Most importantly, the biblical scholar and his co-author, both of whom are supported by the catholic church, admit that many miracles of jeebus never happened but that the early church made them up. In effect: catholic church finally admits these miracles never happened.

Since <b>Church is now a self-professed liar</b>, why would we believe any other claims about jeebus that it (or the babble it had put together) make?

Church admits many gospel tales of jeebus are nothing more than tall fiction. Less and less evidence for jeebus when even church says gospels are unreliable eye-witness. Now, taking away the gospels, there's not even a single eye-witness for jeebus left!

Like many have said for centuries (but died before they heard the latest proof for it from the mouth of the Prime Institution itself): <b>jeebus never existed</b>.

Shame on evil Church. It tortured and murdered 'heretics' for centuries, some of whom pointed out the frauds to which the church admits today but which it murdered those heretics for. Christoterrorism is built on christolies. Say No to drugs/christianism.
Husky here is link to
<b>Crucifixion 'makes God into a psychopath'</b>
Continued from post 157. Same colour-coding as indicated in that post applies.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle1490111.ece
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->From The Times
March 9, 2007

<b>Pope gives blessing to gospel of Jeffrey Archer</b>
<b>Judas</b>, the disciple who betrayed Jesus with a kiss for 30 pieces of silver, is <b>to undergo a change of image</b> at the hands of a man who knows more about makeovers than most.

Jeffrey Archer, whose best-sellers include Kane and Abel, The Eleventh Commandment and prison diaries entitled Heaven, Purgatory and Hell, will launch a new book next week with an endorsement from the Vatican.The Gospel of Judas by Benjamin Iscariot, is to be presented at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome by its Rector, Father Stephen Pisano.

The following day, it will be launched at Westminster Cathedral, flagship of the Roman Catholic diocese of Westminster, by Dr Dermot Power, spiritual director of the Allen Hall seminary and himself a top theologian.

Even for a man who has sold more than 125 million books, been raised to the peerage and jailed for perjury, it is an extraordinary coup.

The Catholic Church is taking Lord Archer’s book seriously because it is <b>co-authored by Professor Francis J. Moloney, a scholar who is head of the Salesian religious order in Australia and who has been a member of the Vatican’s International Theological Commission since 1984. Professor Moloney, a friend of the Pope, is considered by Roman prelates to be a leading authority on the Christian scriptures.</b>

The book is an account and justification of Judas’s life and his betrayal of Christ written in the style of one of the three synoptic gospels by his supposed son, Benjamin. A senior Catholic source in England told The Times: “It is a wonderful story of forgiveness and mercy through the eyes of someone who never believed Jesus was God. Moloney has brought the four Gospels together into one. <b>Even if only half of Jeffrey Archer’s readers buy the book, millions of people will read the Gospel for the first time.”</b>

<b>Some Vatican scholars have suggested that Judas should be “rehabilitated”, on the grounds that in pointing out Jesus to arresting soldiers in the Garden of Gethsemane, he was merely fulfilling God’s plan.</b>

This coincided with the publication last year of The Gospel of Judas, a second century <b>Gnostic</b> text that also supported the contention that Judas was the instrument of a divine plan and not therefore personally culpable.

In an interview in January Lord Archer said the book was “a gospel, not a novel and not a short story”. He said that in his version Judas did not hang himself, and had betrayed Jesus not for money but out of disappointment with Jesus for not overthrowing the Romans.

Father Pisano said the pontifical institute had no commercial interest in the book and Father Moloney’s contribution was historical and theological.

“The book is a novel, there is no ancient document as there was for the recently published Gospel of Judas.”

<b>Heretic history</b>
A BBC documentary shown over Christmas 2005 made the case that Mary was not a virgin when Jesus was conceived. Some scholars contend that the original text was ambiguous as to whether Mary was a virgin or just a young girl

In his book <i>The Man Jesus Loved: Homoerotic Narratives From the New Testament</i>, US bible scholar Theodore W. Jennings Jr. argues that there is biblical evidence to support the view that Jesus was homosexual, citing accounts of disciples “lying close to the breast of Jesus ”

James Cameron, director of the film <i>Titanic</i>, last month announced a film arguing that Jesus had a child with Mary Magdalene — and he claims to have the bones to prove it <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hear that sound? It's the humans-turned-sheep. They're crying that it was all a lie. Poor sheep. It's not too late to say No to drugs/christianism.

In the second to last paragraph of the Times news report above, it talks about a gay jeebus as gleaned from the NT. Well, I don't know about the NT as evidence for a gay jeebus, but there is definitely an apocryphal gospel where jeebus was made an overtly homo-sexual character. It's a good thing they hid that gospel, else the Roman church would turn out to be hypocrites today for being anti-gay, wouldn't it? (Actually, they have long been hypocrites about everything.)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/anil_b...ntolerance.html
<b>Easter: religious intolerance</b> - Anil Bhanot
Hardline Christian evangelists are using this festival to step up attempts to convert Hindus and denigrate our faith.
Hindus look forward to the Easter bank holiday and few of our children refuse the offer of an Easter egg. Otherwise, Easter has no religious significance for us.

What does affect us is the renewed focus hard-line Christian groups place on evangelism at Easter. Our community is becoming increasingly alarmed at attempts to covert Hindus by denigrating our faith at home and abroad.

Hinduism is an inclusive religion respecting other faiths and ways of seeking God. In the final chapter 18 of the Bhagavad-Gita, Lord Krishna declares to Arjuna:

<i>"The Lord dwells in the hearts of all beings,
Seek refuge in Him alone with all your heart;
By His Grace
You will gain Supreme peace
And the Eternal Abode."</i>

Some Christian groups cannot see the beauty in this approach, sticking rigidly to their belief that their "truth" is the only "truth" and they alone have the monopoly on God. Using devious evangelical tactics, they plague our world and threaten our ability to live together in one global village.

Former jailbird Jonathan Aitken, president of Christian Solidarity Worldwide (CSW), for instance, attacks Hinduism through a CSW documentary just released. The documentary suggests Hinduism is fatally flawed because of hereditary caste system keeps the lower castes, Dalits, "in bondage". By converting Indian Dalits to Christianity, CSW claims to be "setting them free".

This is altogether too simplistic a view. The true shame of modern-day slavery cannot be foisted onto the Hindu community by playing the outdated caste card.

Discrimination on the grounds of caste has been unlawful since India gained independence. The Indian government rightly offers the Dalit community a 27% reservation quota in education and employment. Yes, abuses still take place in some remote parts of India and they must be condemned.

The Hindu Council UK (HCUK) embraces all castes as equal. We work together and eat together. At last year's Ganesh festival, the Dalit Valmiki temple in Southall provided us with lunch.

Do UK Dalits welcome CSW's work to give them a "better life?" No. The Dalit Valmiki temple and the UK Dalit Association have asked HCUK to help them resist new threats from aggressive organisations such as the CSW.

If Jonathan Aitken and his ilk really cared for humanity, they could compensate poor children working in India with wages while they attended school. But how much easier to turn up with Bibles and lay the blame for Dalit suffering at the door of Hinduism, while ignoring deeper caste issues caused by the legacy of the presumably "colonial" Raj? The real problem is poverty.

In seeing individual human lives in terms of an evangelical numbers game, Dalits in the UK fear for their children; our proud youth, who know their Gita as well as the Bible, feel denigrated.

Let us reflect this Easter to learn to live in a global village by respecting each others traditions.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


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