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Jan Lokpal movement
[url="http://www.timesofassam.com/headlines/anna-hazare-and-jan-lokpal-bill-drama-ends/"]Anna Hazare and Jan Lokpal Bill – Drama Ends[/url]

Quote:Unfortunately, [color="#0000FF"]the youth who had joined in masses to stand against corruption did not see through any of these facts just as they did not question while buying Anna Caps worth a few bucks (21st century version of Gandhi caps) for hundreds of rupees just to stand with the glamour.[/color] Nor did anyone demand to keep Corporates and NGOs into the ambit of Lokpal.

Extremely important point there. Petty sentimentalism must end; not just in case of this 'movement' but also for all those inane and naive

'bhai-bhai', 'all religions are same', 'peace-peace', 'love-love' non-sense.
Anna completed its cycle.

Now next idiot will be propped up. But citizens are fed up with corrupt Congress and Babus, fire is still there. Indians need trigger for revolution and kick out elites and corrupt babus. What will be the trigger, who knows. In Tunisia it was unemployed youth killed by corrupt police !

Lets see. Indian History is full of uprising after some period, next is over due.
To have a revolution against corruption in India will certainly bring in improvement in the public life of this nation. However, one has to see the ground realities as it exists in India today.

Firstly, let us take the political machinery of the nation. Over the years, the two important national level parties have lost their influence and power in certain pockets of the country. They have been replaced by the regional parties who have considerable influence in their respective areas. When the general election to the Parliament is announced, naturally these regional parties play a major role .The national level parties go out of the way to seek support of these regional centres of power in order to gain the maximum number of seats in parliament. Ideology does not play any major role in this exercise.

The second most important factor relates to the caste and communal line up of the voters. The latest example is the induction of Shri Ajit Singh as a Union Minister and the induction of ex-BSP Ministers sacked by the UP Chief Minister in the BJP. Not long ago the Communists are in alliance with the Congress in running the Central Government. When on the nuclear issue, the first UPA Government was about to lose its majority in Parliament, many other parties came running from the opposition camp to save the Government. No one irrespective of his party affiliation or ideological affiliation have the courage to face the electorate till they are compelled to do so due to the constitutional requirements.

In the process of ensuring electoral success for each formation of political parties, their members take the help and assistance of all such individuals who have some following in their respective areas of operation either due to caste factor, communal factor or money factor. In Indian politics of today no political leader is untouchable for any political party. Pending criminal cases, ranging from attempted murder to rape are not any longer a deciding factor in the selection of candidates by the political parties.

The third important factor is the wide variation in the thinking of the voters across the nation. Each region has its own problems, social compulsions and other related factors which play in the mind of the voters while casing their votes. Most of them are happy to see that their limited objective of getting the man of their own choice gets fulfilled by whatever means it may be. Corruption and money power plays a very important role in the whole electoral process. The youths of the country who participate in the election campaign of various political parties mostly do so not due to ideological considerations but more due to materialistic gains and other benefits.

It should be noted that there is hardly any difference in the internal power dynamics and running of the party of the different political parties. Both the Congress and the BJP act along the same lines while conducting the affairs of their party. Both tolerate corrupt and tinted politicians due to political necessicity.

In this prevailing situation to think of some Tunasian type revolt is nothing but wishful thinking, which is nothing unusual for this forum. It may be recalled that during the last general election , the predictions made by political experts of this forum ultimately proved to be wide off the mark.
[url="http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/Hazare-says-he-is-fit-and-ready-to-resume-fight/articleshow/11943772.cms"]None to take the fight against corruption forward?[/url]
A very strange event has happened today viz Anna went to meet Baba Ramdev. I find this particularly curious as this is the same man who once sent a list of some 10 odd conditions to BR when he asked to fast with Anna. Also worth noting is that way back in Feb (or Jan IIRC) last year, there was a huge rally in Delhi at Ram Leela Maidan where both of them were together; later on "Team Anna" started its own movement (mostly under the aegis of NGOs funded by you know who).

Later on when the Mumbai fast went kaput, indications were clear that this "Team Anna" was going to invite BR again. I have a feeling that they only wish to capitulate on the popularity of BR and capture some numbers from his movement to theirs. I would love to hear other members views.
Well, for a change, this time around, Ramdev has somersaulted and said that he won't be joining Anna's ?fast.

Source; Zee tv news of this morning
[quote name='Capt M Kumar' date='23 March 2012 - 06:55 AM' timestamp='1332465423' post='114634']

Well, for a change, this time around, Ramdev has somersaulted and said that he won't be joining Anna's ?fast.

Source; Zee tv news of this morning


Nice if it is so; I remember watching BR's youtube videos in which he is revealing to a gathering of people about the funding of Anna's "movement" and I was wondering, ever since the above developments, as to how could he support/be on the same platform, when he himself is fully aware of this mlechchha sponsored Janlokpal "movement" of "Team Anna".

Hope he becomes more vocal about the dubiousness of this new useful fool.
[quote name='Amatya Rakshas' date='23 March 2012 - 07:57 AM' timestamp='1332469143' post='114635']

Nice if it is so; I remember watching BR's youtube videos in which he is revealing to a gathering of people about the funding of Anna's "movement" and I was wondering, ever since the above developments, as to how could he support/be on the same platform, when he himself is fully aware of this mlechchha sponsored Janlokpal "movement" of "Team Anna".

Hope he becomes more vocal about the dubiousness of this new useful fool.


Anna is suspicious from very beginning. only purpose was to destroy Baba Ramdev and his movement. To some extent he was able to do so. People around Anna are looking for big pay day and glory from international club (UN, EU etc).
[quote name='Mudy' date='26 March 2012 - 01:38 AM' timestamp='1332705611' post='114639']

Anna is suspicious from very beginning. only purpose was to destroy Baba Ramdev and his movement. To some extent he was able to do so. People around Anna are looking for big pay day and glory from international club (UN, EU etc).


I am afraid that their take over is now nearing completion. They've --IMO-- successfully hijacked the movement and taken over public imagination across the country. History repeating itself. (Aurobindo, Tilak and many others were working in the true spirit of Bharat; enter Gandhi and then starts the hijacking.)

PS: Surprisingly, his recent one day token fast didn't get the kind of coverage from english electronic media the way last one got; not even from Times Now, which is heavily funded by US based groups and thus sympathetic to the cause of Ford/Rockefeller foundation. Other reason could be that it has served its purpose and is no longer required, so taking cue from the govt. these channels are no more interested (Hindi channels did air the event entire day). At this point, it appears to me that this is a very complex mesh of varying anti-India forces. What do the other members think?

On the link below is an 8 page Economic & Strategic Impact Assessment of the Jan Lokpal Bill... in terms of what it means for India ... in Economic Parlance.


Very briefly, the bill will bring about a very transparent investment regime that will catalyze the following impacts :

1. Help to nearly Triple Indian GDP from US $ 1.8 Trillion currently ... to US $ 4.5 Trillion by 2025

2. Triple FDI inflows from US $ 25.83 Billion ( 2009 - 10 ) ... to US $ 75 Billion by 2016

3. Create 60 Million New Jobs by 2025
... Details in Annexure 1 of attached PDF File

The truth is that the Argument in favour of the Jan Lokpal Bill is 90 % Economic and ... that debate has not even started ( in Parliament , In Industry, in the Media etc ). [color="#FF0000"]If Parliament did not discuss the Economic Impact of the Bill , what did Parliament talk about ?[/color]

There is a need to move beyond the Clauses of the bill and the other issues that vested interests are bringing up to scuttle the movement and look at the Hard Numbers ( Described above ) instead.

While there may be different views on the Investment Multiplier impacts that I have considered in my analysis ( Annexure 1 ) , the fact is that the scale of Impact will still be huge. As the economy expands into a US $ 4.5 Trillion economy, Government Employee salaries will also

rise very considerably within the Central and State Governments.This will reduce the incentive for corruption.

Those against the bill are saying that the Lokpal Institution will need 55,000 Employees ... what they are not telling us is that the Lokpal bill will also create an Investment environment that will generate 60,000,000 New Jobs. The impact is so huge that we need a national debate on the Economic impact of this bill to get a better grip on the numbers. A Team of senior Economists can be trusted with this task.

On the cautious side, certain clauses within the Jan Lokpal Version ( i.e Inclusion of the Prime Minister and Higher Judiciary) however need to be removedto safeguard our democracy. Other than these 2 - 3 clauses, this bill is just what the economy needs.

From a Strategic Viewpoint it is necessary to Focus on just the Economic Impact of the Jan Lokpal Bill.This is, as I have said earlier , 90 % of the Argument in its favour. Today GDP Growth rate has fallen drastically to 6.1 % ( In the 3rd Quarter of 2011 - 12 ) and the

Major Credit Rating agencies have downgraded India as an investment destination ... primarily due to lack of transparencyand Corruption in all Govt.Deals and Licenses.The Rupee is also falling.

Everyone in this country apparently has been looking at the Clauses ... and stuff like that. Absolutely NO ONE has Looked at the Strategic Big Picture Impact of the Bill. There is a need to do this.


Ashish Puntambekar

Project Designer

The Indian Education Megaproject ... An Alternative to the RTE ... Free Education for 126 Million Children ... Without Budgetary Support


& The Mumbai Megaproject


Noteable Responses :

1. Mr. Bharat Karnad of the centre of Policy Research ( New Delhi ) had included a reference

to my Analysis in his Article in the Indian Express. The article is on the Indian Express

website and available on the link below :


Paragraphs 6 & 7 contain the reference.

2. Professor Bibek Debroy has posted his response on the Economic Impact of the Lokpal Bill

on the Economic Times Website :


Not on Anna or Jan Lokpal. But on something Ramdev said (because his name cropped up in this thread most often in recent times).

1. haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=15938&SKIN=B

Quote:A most dangerous move By Baba Ramdev towards Muslim appeasement

19/05/2012 11:18:16 Upananda Brahmachari


It is now heard that Baba Rambev will demand the rights of conversion by Christians and Muslims from Hindus soon under a pressure of Muslim-Christian lobby helping (eye-washing) Ramdev in his Anti Corruption movement.

[color="#800080"](And I suppose making concessions for acquiring christoislamics' cooperation to stand with Hindus against the Corruption is inevitableSmile[/color]

“I did not know till recently that Article 341 does not cover Muslims and Christian Dalits. This is not fair. dalit is a dalit, whether s/he is a Hindu, Christian or a Muslim. So, all Dalits should get equal rights. We will have to struggle to achieve this. [color="#FF0000"]We will launch a struggle (for this). I extend my whole-hearted support[/color],” he said.

Article 341 of Indian constitution of India is a PART of XVI dealing with SPECIAL PROVISIONS RELATING TO CERTAIN CLASSES. It starts with Article 330 and ends with Article 342. Actually, Muslims are now trying to get inserted in the Scheduled Caste ( Art. 341) and certainly they are not satisfied with their just Dalit status in Mandal Commission or Ranganath Mishra Commission or in Sachar Committee Reports. As the provisions of Dalits or OBC (Other Backward Classes) give only the reservation in jobs and various scholarships and loans/grants etc. to them, it never be counted synonymous to the rights of the SC and ST communities in the Hindu fold who get the seat reservation in the State Assemblies and the Parliament by the virtue of PART XVI of Indian Constitution. Now, this Muslim Morcha demands the Scheduled Caste Rights to grab the political power in every State Assembly and in the Indian Parliament with their reservation rights in Indian Polity through Art. 341 and they gradually will extend their demand upto Art.330. And Baba Ramedv preponderantly supported those who love Sharitat at the highest level than their life and treat Indian Constitution as a political tool to make ease to reach to the goal of Shariyat. It is must but should be clear for Revered Baba that the whole Hindu community may reject him for advocating Muslim rights than the reasonable responsibilities of Muslims in obeying Indian Constitution whole heartedly. Baba is advocating for those Muslim propagators who believe in Shariyat and desire to capture Delhi again through getting reservation facilities from the top of Indian Parliament (for ruling India again as Akbar, Sahajahan or Aurangjeeb) down to the Hindu families (for making Love jihad and so on). Those who have not full faith in Indian Constitution, how they claim full rights and reservation from it?

In Kerala, Andhra Pradesh and some other states in India, the Muslim and Christian OBCs are getting more facilities than the Hindu OBCs. And Muslims and Christian OBCs are gradually encroaching the facilities from the share of Hindus.


This appeasement of the enemy ideologies seems to be a repeated pattern of Hindus going into politics... Are there ANY exceptions at all? I mean, is there ANYONE who puts their foot down and avoids wooing christoislamics (or christoislamism), and only focuses on Hindus? Or is treachery to be the lot in Hindus' lives?

2. And Ramdev's amendment follows, which doesn't seem to make his position any more sensible (nor does it explain his choice of words in the above, which must have been conscious wording to some degree at least):


Quote:Human justice and national interest is my top priority - Baba Ramdev

19/05/2012 00:28:10 Press Release

I had neither any knowledge of the particular Article nor any comment I made about it. This is the subject of constitutional experts to worry about. My worry is only one and that is any poor should be helped and I do not distinguish poor on the basis of caste and religion, for me all poor people are my brother and they all are equal. May they be of any religion or any caste!

I am a monk and as a monk it is my duty to help any human life and I do not distinguish between humans. For me the question is not of Hindu or Muslim.

[color="#800080"](But for christoislamics, it is very much the question of whether someone is a heathen or part of the saved ummah. Ramdev's tolerance for intolerance will get Hindus killed even if Ramdev makes it out alive at the end of it, the way Gandhi's appeasement got Hindus killed.)[/color]

This is the issue of providing justice to all humans. As far as the question of reservation is, first we believe that the reservation should be on the basis of poverty –whether the poor is a “dalit” (schedule caste) or of higher class. The Constitution of India has provided her every citizen the right of freedom, but if anyone converts them by lure, torcher, entice, or political pressure then it is most unrighteous. That person is not converting people but doing sinful act and there should be a provision in law that such conversions do not happen in India due to fear of torcher and enticements. This alone will automatically prove the goal of rendering social and religious justice.

When I say of providing justice to every poor, backward and weak person of all castes, all religions, all languages, all provinces, and if some people take its advantage for getting wholesale votes and converting their religion in wholesale then there cannot be any worst immoral work than this.

[color="#800080"](There is a point where naivete becomes a crime, you know. It's when there's enough evidence staring you in the face to finally start noticing that the stuff you're endorsing/encouraging - the weeds you're watering - is a genocidal mania.)[/color]

They are seeking their selfish interest by exploiting the poverty of masses. I can never support these people. Whether it is a religious conversion of people or changing their political beliefs in their own favor all this work is unrighteous. This is the murder of righteousness, I cannot support them. But I consider it the duty of the government to help needy citizens irrespective of their castes, religions or provinces by providing them specific relief and financial subsidies.

[color="#800080"](1. A christoislamic nation with an openly christoislamic govt will not reciprocate such a secular stance towards a then-minority of heathens. Even the cryptochristian govt of today is openly, unashamedly one-handed in its systematic discriminatory dealings towards Hindus, though these still constitute a numerical majority. Hindus' religion is *already* openly persecuted by the crypto-christogovt. Imagine an openly-christoislamic nation.

2. Ramdev's trackback re-wording nothwithstanding, yet in the intial statement he's supposed to have made - which, assuming he truly stated it, no amount of handwaving and claims to ignorance can withdraw now - Ramdev specifically recognised and supported the recognition of the new construct of christoislamic "dalits", one which he should be able to work out will only provide more incentives for rice christianism and eventually lead to more christoislamic terrorism against Hindus owing to an increase in christoislamic demographics.

3. Just because he finds ['such'] conversions reprehensible is not going to stop the enemies from continuing to pursue just that. Worse, his statements on christoislamic 'dalits', if implemented, will merely fans the flames of exactly such conversions.)[/color]

Swami Ramdev

Patanjali Yogpeeth (Trust)

Administrative Office: Patanjali Yogpeeth, Maharashi Dayanand Gram, Delhi-Haridwar National Highway, Near Bhadarabad, Haridwar-249405, Uttarakhand, India http://www.bharatswabhimansamachar.in/wp...ficial.jpg

Feeding the canker is so obviously a very good idea. Confusedatire:

What's really sad - and unfair, and angering - is none of these people will ever be around to take responsibility for their utterly irresponsible remarks and for the weight such things carry owing to their influence and which could hence be brought down to bear on Hindus' future. They may never know how, decades or a century or perhaps several centuries hence, their ill-advised and dangerous meddling in favour of inimical ideologies sharply contributed to the demise of Hindus' heathenism. Their actions marking milestones in the lead up to The Fall of genuine Hindu religion (not counting new-ageisms that may spring up by that name in future).

You know, the way Licinius - who once helped his co-emperor Constantine in beginning the Wipe-out of Hellenismos - didn't know the extent which his betrayal had brought to Hellenismos.

Most convenient then, that a human lifespan does not often exceed a centenary. And most convenient not to know the guilt one personally bears in making victims out of future generations. One need never learn how much one is to blame for the loss of everything worthy and good.

But, back to his "argument": So, one must utterly indiscriminately prop up the case for "The Poor"?

OK, but then (Indiscrimate being the word):

- Let's not forget the Poor among the illegally infiltrated Bangladeshi and TSP muslims. They're massively poor (they're also massively plotting jihad. But that is of no concern as per Ramdev's sole criteria for consideration.)

- Or the poor among the jihadi Lashkar-e-Toiba (or whatever) operating in Kashmir and other jihadi outfits in the country

and the poor among the christoterrorist outfits like NLFT/etc.

- And what about the number of poor among any actual criminals justly serving time in Indian prisons???

And why stop at India? Since Tolerance For Intolerance is the slogan - we care not Who these people are brainwashed to kill or oust, and how many more they will massacre when they are empowered through further money into multiplying and doing propaganda and enlisting for soldiery in the jihad-crusade -

then, what about the poor unemployed among the neo-nazis in the west? Or let's just go back in time, and plead for the Poor Nazis (Germany's economical slump after WWI was one of the factors congenial to nazism in Germany.)

Poverty is the only criteria after all, not whether any of the poor are ideologically safe to society... I.e. whether a parasite deserves to be fed along with the host...

Come to think of it, there were many poor European christo conquistadors and dirt-poor christo soldiers who conquered the New World for That Excuse For Evil: The Non-existent Jeebus. (Europe's greed for expansion and to raise itself from poverty is what made it look for gold and seek opportunism in the New World.) In contrast, the native Americans were by all accounts prosperous - more than enough to share their food repeatedly with the hostile invasion force and then get "rewarded" for their unthinking and regrettable generosity by being genocided.

The native Americans fed and supported their christo-enemy into sufficient strength to destroy their heathen benefactors. Rather like what Ramdev stands poised to do.

While native Americans didn't know better - not having a knowledge of christo history to hand, the way the Ramdevs and Hindus can know their enemy ideologies today - for Hindus to do the same now is to once more emphasise one of the famous lines from the SW spoof Spaceballs: [color="#0000FF"]"And now you know why Evil always wins: because Good is dumb."[/color] (If a line is true, it doesn't hurt repeating it)

Sensible people - you know, the kind that's less likely to extinct - would be good/kind only to those who are good to you, or at least have done none harm (compare with christoislamism which has in some manner destroyed *every* population it has come into contact with). You owe enemies no courtesy and no consideration. And deadly parasites you particularly owe Nothing.

Assuming Ramdev actually made such statements, then whatever his motivations are - despite flowery words and rosy notions - if his followers continue to support this, they *will* be signing their own death warrants.

One of the comments taken from the first HK link of this post:

Quote:GSK Menon

21/05/2012 02:51:37 A Most Dangerous Move

[color="#0000FF"]This is the problem with Hindu Swamis, Gurus and Matas, once they start getting foreign money and white skinned devotees it is goodbye to Hinduism. Thereafter, these people bowing to foreign influence start praising foreign godmen, and start airing biased views about Hinduism.[/color] Baba Ramdev is displaying the same sympotms. How can there ever be a Dalit Muslim or Christian ? The eye wash of equality projected by these two desert religions is a mere ploy to get more converts into their fold and increase their demographic power. Dalits, even after conversion are ill treated by these foreign godmen followers. Will it be ever possible to have a Dalit Pope in Rome or a Dalit Imam in Mecca ? Simply impossible. Baba Ramdev may perform body circus efficiently but his intellectual capacity appears to be of a low calibre. What his mind could not achieve has been compensated by his body antics. He brought great discredit to all Yoga teachers by trying to escape as a lady. [color="#800080"](Wow, what? Really? Then I guess next time - when this is called Mughalistan - the escape will be in a burkha?)[/color] His sheer cowardice was a major embarassment to all Hindus. Let him confine himself to being a yoga teacher, politics is too much of an intellectual pursuit for him.
[url="http://www.firstpost.com/politics/modi-not-only-communal-but-also-corrupt-kejriwal-396185.html"]Modi not only communal but also corrupt: Kejriwal[/url]

So there it is; true colors are out finally.

Quote:Q: Baba Ramdev has been closely associated with the movement. Yesterday he was seen sharing a stage with Narendra Modi, were he even praised Modi. Many of the members of the movement are critical of Baba Ramdev on this. What do you have to say on this?

A: Narendra Modi has not been just accused of communal riots, there has been lot of corruption in Gujarat. Purshottam Solanki and other ministers from Modi’s cabinet have serious corruption allegations against them. Modi is not giving permission to prosecute these ministers. High court has ordered Modi to give permission in 3 months, but still Modi did not. It seems that Modi is playing a prominent role in protecting the corrupt ministers. So its not appropriate to associate with such a figure.
[quote name='Amatya Rakshas' date='30 July 2012 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1343688273' post='115257']

[url="http://www.firstpost.com/politics/modi-not-only-communal-but-also-corrupt-kejriwal-396185.html"]Modi not only communal but also corrupt: Kejriwal[/url]

So there it is; true colors are out finally.


True Colours - Listen to this and then decide!![url="http://youtu.be/63h1G6E9wCM"]Conspiracy[/url]
Anna ji and Arvind ji have raised few questions. They have called for the people to answer these questions.

Please answer these. You can email to indiaagainstcorruption.2010@gmail.com

1. How to select candidates from people? How to ensure their credentials?

2. How to contest elections without spending money (unlike all political parties do).

3. How to enlighten voters to vote on issues and not any other indicator (caste, booze or money).
Namaste to all members. It's been long time <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />/>/>

Lately I've been observing the 'invitation' and visit of Anna Hazare to US and naturally curious about his activities, given that he wants to bring change in India but curiously visits USA. Some questions I posted elsewhere in response to which I got a forwarded email(!) instead of a pointed, nuanced response. I am posting that here hoping the learned members, especially those from USA will be able to give specific answers.

Quote:"Hazare, who will leave for the US on 15 August, said he will be visiting Columbia University, Wharton University, New York, Washington, South Carolina, Atlanta, Chicago, Petersburgh and attend a meeting with the governor of Delaware during the course of the trip."

Link : http://bit.ly/14aZCyf

1. Who exactly is funding this trip of AH?

2. Who has such PR and relations in US by which they're able to make

this simpleton individual speak in the aforementioned institutions?

3. Who has sent him the invitation? Clearly he himself, on his own, as

far as I know, is not in a position to organize programmes in such

powerful and influential institutions in US.

4. His heart is at the right place, but like I said above, he is a

simpleton and often backtracks from his statements (ex- will support/not

support AAP; Narendra Modi is/is not secular etc.) - Is it just me or

does anyone else also sees something more subtle and deeper at work

here? I am hinting towards how in 2012 the entire movement of Baba

Ramdev suffered due to his sudden appearance and 24x7 coverage by

media, making him an overnight 'crusader against corruption'.


PS: A body called FIA (Federation of Indian Associations) seems to be involved in it, and some shabbily written posts on the net suggest, that the individuals in charge there are involved in financial mismanagement. At any rate, the India Day Parade, which you share dais with pop-cultural "icons", doesn't seem to be a serious business to me; more like phony tamasha/mela gathering IMHO. Please correct me If I'm wrong. Of course all this is happening with US/Xtian lobbies, but I wanted specific names if possible.
[url="http://punsnroses.wordpress.com/2014/05/21/come-india-lets-all-hate-arvind-kejriwal/"]Worth a read even if you do not agree with the author[/url]

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