06-13-2005, 04:28 AM
Dear Shibli,
I'm not saying Urdu is an ugly language. I have nothing against it. But as Kashmiris we should use Kashmiri, just like the Germans use German, the french french and so on.
The medium of instruction in all the schools and colleges of Kashmir valley at least, from 1st to doctoral level should be Kashmiri. There's nothing wrong with people learning English or Urdu as a second language, but they must use Kashmiri in public affairs and not just in the home.
Why should Urdu be the medium of instruction? Why not Kashmiri? There may be many accents in the UK but everyone is taught using English. There's nothing wrong with having different accents or dialects. The days of Queen's English and the snobbery that it brought are over. No one gives a monkey's in Britain about your accent (unless it is South Indian). We Kashmiris, on the other hand, don't have the same degree of variation in accents. But we hardly learn our language the way other nationalities do? We feel ashamed even to speak it.
I'm glad you can read and write Kashmiri. We can do a lot. We can demand that Kashmiri be made the medium of instruction. We should agitate!!!
Dear Kashmann,
I don't agree with you in pointing out your fingure at Urdu. Urdu is a relatively new language and a very beautiful and only language that can bind different cultures and languages of Jammu and Kashmiri - kashmiri, pahari, punjabi, dogri and others. The trouble is the mindset of kashmiris as slaves and the goverment attitudes and apathy towards it.
For centuries Kashmiri has been sidelined and people learned either sanskrit, farsi and urdu at the expense of kashmiri or other regional languages. True, majority of 'upwardly mobile' middle class tend to speak Urdu or 'Wurdu' in local slang with their children, though majority of them make mess of it, both in grammar and pronounciation. Urdu is such a beautiful language, but people do commit a murder by speaking it harshly and badly. Similarly some people now tend to speak english only or they pretend so. But this problem is not unique to kashmiri or pahari. Urdu, Hindi and even english is in decline. Even in UK majority of the kids can't now read or write. Queen's English has been replaced by regge type slangs or 'Usher' ed into a new tribal language of totally different character or undertone.
If you happen to visit Kashmir University in Srinagar, the worst building and location any department can have is Kashmiri and looks like a horse stable. In my various meetings with Kashmiri intellectuals including the present head of the Kashmiri department we have mourned about it and our collective sense of complacency many a time. I finished my master's in media from kashmir university in 1997 and I was the only student in my class who could read and write Kashmiri with ease or shall I say i was the only person. The people or our so-called leaders who hold 'conferences' of international nature about politics of kashmir do not think about it, as it does not fetch money from either pakistan or india. Shame on them all.
But we could do something about it.
kind regards,
Murtaza Shibli
Koshur <the_kashmann@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Dear Mr. Shibli,
The problem has always been Urdu. It's because of Urdu that Kashmiri has decayed and is on the brink of extinction. This bazari language has come as a curse for Kashmir's native languages. It's not really that much of a problem for speakers of Pahari and Gujari which are very close to Urdu and somewhat intelligible to an Urdu speaker. But Kashmir's unique language is being stamped out. It has now become a thing of shame to speak in Kashmiri.
The attempt to assassinate the Kashmiri language is part of the insidious program to hijack Kashmir's identity and dilute it. What would German identity be without German? Tamil identity without Tamil? For centuries Kashmiris have been oppressed and their language has been treated with utter contempt, and when they speak out they are condemned as "linguistic chauvinists".
I am not the only one to have these sentiments. There are thousands in Kashmir who feel the same way. Who feel their language has been neglected and despised enough. They feel their language has had to pay enough for the parasite that Urdu is. And they are not unwilling to follow the example of the Tamil nationalists to bring home the fact that enough is enough!!
Regards
Koshur
--- Murtaza Shibli wrote:
> Dear Zaheemkhan,
>
> Thanks for writing the following:
>
> like koshur mirpuri people think that pahari is outdated and 'language of
> the illiterate' and send their childern to schools
> where urdu (and even english) is the only medium .
>
> Now I know why there is a strong urge to class
> 'mirpuri' or 'pahari' as kashmiri. Just becuase
> people think thier language is outdated and it is
> language of illiterate, it does not allow them to
> steal identity of a different group of nation.
>
> thanks anyway for letting us know the reasons for
> 'kashmiri' identity campaign.
>
> kind regards,
>
> murtaza shibli
>
> ZAHEEMKHAN1@aol.com wrote:
>
> this is point to discuss - i think this is exactly the case with
> Pahari/mirpuri as well, it is disappearing- my 7, 9
> year old cousins came to visit us
> two years ago from mirpur. both of them could no
> speak their mother tongue and
> were very proud to speak urdu- i did not understand
> them because even though
> i was born and brought up in Bradford - i am fluent
> in my mother tongue - thanks to my mum.
>
> I think Kashmiri people on this side also prefer
> urdu for their childern -
> since they read and write in urdu. One man from
> Rawalakot came to stay with us
> and I was surprised to see that he only spoke urdu -
> his pahari dialect was
> complete different and difficult for me to understand.
>
> like koshur mirpuri people think that pahari is
> outdated and 'language of
> the illiterate' and send their childern to schools
> where urdu (and even english) is the only medium .
>
> so just like srinagar, mipur is loosing the cultural
> heritage and with the
> advnet of satelite tv - all urdu and hindi -
> kashmiri generations are in
> danger of forgetting their their history, language and cutlure.
>
> IT HAS TO BE PRESERVED - THAT IS WHY WE NEED INDEPENDENCE
>
> this is an important issue- governments on both
> sides must be urged to
> preseve our language and culture. .....but then as
> my dad would say THEY ARE ONLY
> PUPPETS , WHAT ELSE CAN YOU EXPECT FROM THEM ..?'
>
> In a message dated 18/04/2005 16:21:22 GMT Standard
> Time,
> the_kashmann@yahoo.co.uk writes:
>
>
>
> Without the Kashmiri language, there is no Kashmiri
> identity, not even the smaller "ethnic identity"
> that many of this forum are willing to concede.
>
> Already, Urdu is replacing Kashmiri as the first
> language in Kashmir. Most educated and rich people,
> especially in Srinagar, teach their children Urdu,
> and prohibit them from speaking Kashmiri. It will not be
> long before the Kashmiri language disappears from
> Kashmir, and "Kashmiris" speak Urdu as their first language.
>
> Many elements are acting in concert in bringing
> about the extinction of Kashmiri. Most of these people are
> those who do not speak Kashmiri and bear
> unfathomable hatred towards our language.
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
I'm not saying Urdu is an ugly language. I have nothing against it. But as Kashmiris we should use Kashmiri, just like the Germans use German, the french french and so on.
The medium of instruction in all the schools and colleges of Kashmir valley at least, from 1st to doctoral level should be Kashmiri. There's nothing wrong with people learning English or Urdu as a second language, but they must use Kashmiri in public affairs and not just in the home.
Why should Urdu be the medium of instruction? Why not Kashmiri? There may be many accents in the UK but everyone is taught using English. There's nothing wrong with having different accents or dialects. The days of Queen's English and the snobbery that it brought are over. No one gives a monkey's in Britain about your accent (unless it is South Indian). We Kashmiris, on the other hand, don't have the same degree of variation in accents. But we hardly learn our language the way other nationalities do? We feel ashamed even to speak it.
I'm glad you can read and write Kashmiri. We can do a lot. We can demand that Kashmiri be made the medium of instruction. We should agitate!!!
Dear Kashmann,
I don't agree with you in pointing out your fingure at Urdu. Urdu is a relatively new language and a very beautiful and only language that can bind different cultures and languages of Jammu and Kashmiri - kashmiri, pahari, punjabi, dogri and others. The trouble is the mindset of kashmiris as slaves and the goverment attitudes and apathy towards it.
For centuries Kashmiri has been sidelined and people learned either sanskrit, farsi and urdu at the expense of kashmiri or other regional languages. True, majority of 'upwardly mobile' middle class tend to speak Urdu or 'Wurdu' in local slang with their children, though majority of them make mess of it, both in grammar and pronounciation. Urdu is such a beautiful language, but people do commit a murder by speaking it harshly and badly. Similarly some people now tend to speak english only or they pretend so. But this problem is not unique to kashmiri or pahari. Urdu, Hindi and even english is in decline. Even in UK majority of the kids can't now read or write. Queen's English has been replaced by regge type slangs or 'Usher' ed into a new tribal language of totally different character or undertone.
If you happen to visit Kashmir University in Srinagar, the worst building and location any department can have is Kashmiri and looks like a horse stable. In my various meetings with Kashmiri intellectuals including the present head of the Kashmiri department we have mourned about it and our collective sense of complacency many a time. I finished my master's in media from kashmir university in 1997 and I was the only student in my class who could read and write Kashmiri with ease or shall I say i was the only person. The people or our so-called leaders who hold 'conferences' of international nature about politics of kashmir do not think about it, as it does not fetch money from either pakistan or india. Shame on them all.
But we could do something about it.
kind regards,
Murtaza Shibli
Koshur <the_kashmann@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Dear Mr. Shibli,
The problem has always been Urdu. It's because of Urdu that Kashmiri has decayed and is on the brink of extinction. This bazari language has come as a curse for Kashmir's native languages. It's not really that much of a problem for speakers of Pahari and Gujari which are very close to Urdu and somewhat intelligible to an Urdu speaker. But Kashmir's unique language is being stamped out. It has now become a thing of shame to speak in Kashmiri.
The attempt to assassinate the Kashmiri language is part of the insidious program to hijack Kashmir's identity and dilute it. What would German identity be without German? Tamil identity without Tamil? For centuries Kashmiris have been oppressed and their language has been treated with utter contempt, and when they speak out they are condemned as "linguistic chauvinists".
I am not the only one to have these sentiments. There are thousands in Kashmir who feel the same way. Who feel their language has been neglected and despised enough. They feel their language has had to pay enough for the parasite that Urdu is. And they are not unwilling to follow the example of the Tamil nationalists to bring home the fact that enough is enough!!
Regards
Koshur
--- Murtaza Shibli wrote:
> Dear Zaheemkhan,
>
> Thanks for writing the following:
>
> like koshur mirpuri people think that pahari is outdated and 'language of
> the illiterate' and send their childern to schools
> where urdu (and even english) is the only medium .
>
> Now I know why there is a strong urge to class
> 'mirpuri' or 'pahari' as kashmiri. Just becuase
> people think thier language is outdated and it is
> language of illiterate, it does not allow them to
> steal identity of a different group of nation.
>
> thanks anyway for letting us know the reasons for
> 'kashmiri' identity campaign.
>
> kind regards,
>
> murtaza shibli
>
> ZAHEEMKHAN1@aol.com wrote:
>
> this is point to discuss - i think this is exactly the case with
> Pahari/mirpuri as well, it is disappearing- my 7, 9
> year old cousins came to visit us
> two years ago from mirpur. both of them could no
> speak their mother tongue and
> were very proud to speak urdu- i did not understand
> them because even though
> i was born and brought up in Bradford - i am fluent
> in my mother tongue - thanks to my mum.
>
> I think Kashmiri people on this side also prefer
> urdu for their childern -
> since they read and write in urdu. One man from
> Rawalakot came to stay with us
> and I was surprised to see that he only spoke urdu -
> his pahari dialect was
> complete different and difficult for me to understand.
>
> like koshur mirpuri people think that pahari is
> outdated and 'language of
> the illiterate' and send their childern to schools
> where urdu (and even english) is the only medium .
>
> so just like srinagar, mipur is loosing the cultural
> heritage and with the
> advnet of satelite tv - all urdu and hindi -
> kashmiri generations are in
> danger of forgetting their their history, language and cutlure.
>
> IT HAS TO BE PRESERVED - THAT IS WHY WE NEED INDEPENDENCE
>
> this is an important issue- governments on both
> sides must be urged to
> preseve our language and culture. .....but then as
> my dad would say THEY ARE ONLY
> PUPPETS , WHAT ELSE CAN YOU EXPECT FROM THEM ..?'
>
> In a message dated 18/04/2005 16:21:22 GMT Standard
> Time,
> the_kashmann@yahoo.co.uk writes:
>
>
>
> Without the Kashmiri language, there is no Kashmiri
> identity, not even the smaller "ethnic identity"
> that many of this forum are willing to concede.
>
> Already, Urdu is replacing Kashmiri as the first
> language in Kashmir. Most educated and rich people,
> especially in Srinagar, teach their children Urdu,
> and prohibit them from speaking Kashmiri. It will not be
> long before the Kashmiri language disappears from
> Kashmir, and "Kashmiris" speak Urdu as their first language.
>
> Many elements are acting in concert in bringing
> about the extinction of Kashmiri. Most of these people are
> those who do not speak Kashmiri and bear
> unfathomable hatred towards our language.
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com