11-26-2005, 03:24 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Shaurya+Nov 26 2005, 01:52 AM-->QUOTE(Shaurya @ Nov 26 2005, 01:52 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->So your position is:
1. Partition was good for India
2. Ambedkar had an equal role to play in uniting hindus of all castes? Which version of history do you read?
3. Since Gandhi supported non-violence he must be a moron
On 1, You should then thank Gandhi that it was due to his appeasement policies, which helped the creation of TSP and the reason why he was killed.
On 2, to, To set the record straight, it was Gandhi who went on a fast to oppose the british government;s idea of separate electorates for the Scheduled Castes. His chief opponent was Ambedkar, who he convinced/compelled that it was not a good idea. Ambedkar, however towards the end did convert to buddhism, after independence.
On 3, Contempt alone will not help us learn from Gandhi. An analysis of his actions in the context of the given environment will allow us to make sure the mistakes are not repeated and the positive elements are retained.
[right][snapback]42003[/snapback][/right]
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let me clarify.
#1
partition was good for india - because in parting with 2 pieces of india, we also partitioned half the camel jockey population out of india.
i do maintain that we should have partitioned a lot mre camel jockeys and a lot less land.
#2
ambedkar did more than any other indian to restore the dignity of the lower castes and pull india out of the ills of the social injustice that the caste system snowballed into. its because of him that we had someone like Tarun Das as the chairman of FICCI, that we produced a Meghnath Saha, a K R Narayanan and a lot many of other eminent people from the lower castes.
but for him india's human resource wouldnt have been tapped into, to the extent it is. i hope that in another 50 years the contribution of the underpriveledged castes in all walks of life will be as much as that of the upper castes.
too bad that some of the lower castes especially the dalits harbour separatist designs, instead of trying to latch on to the positive discrimination (rightly) handed unto them and joining the mainstream. amdedkar also did a very wise thing by not converting to christianity or islam but buddhism instead. i have no problems with the dalits becomming buddhists, for buddhists arnt millitant like christians.
#3
i support non violence too. and yet i am not a moron. and nor was gandhi a moron just cos he supported non violence.
he was a moron cos he supported non-violence as a PLAUSIBLE MEANS TO ACHIEVE INDEPENDENCE.
non-violence solves social problems, like that of discrimination, be it apartheid in south africa or the rosa parks thing in usa or closer home, the caste system.
but nonviolence and other utopian crap doesnt throw out an enemy who's out to kill your people and economically strangle your nation. non-violence is not the way to stop huns, turks, mongols or germanics.
and whats is TSP ??
seperate electorate maybe not, but reservations for s.c. in parliament and in govt jobs and education institutes is a move that i support whole heartedly.
the s.t. thingie is a sham though, since the AIT is a hoax. reservations on the masis of religion is a sham too, cos there's no "oppressed" religion in india, save hinduism.
what we need to leaen from is not gandhi's mistakes but the mistakes of the people who followed this gutless person instead of backing sarvarkar and netaji. what we need to learn from is not nehru's mistakes but from the mistakes of the people, especially in the hindi heartland, who show such fanatical devotion to this butthead and even his progeny. there'd never be any gandhi or nehru but for the support the gutless and selfrespectless people of india gave them. thats what we need to work on. as long as indians dont learn to stand up and fight when in mortal danger, as long as indians remain wimps, we will keep having jokers like these as our leaders and not firebrands like a tilak or a netaji or a patel.
1. Partition was good for India
2. Ambedkar had an equal role to play in uniting hindus of all castes? Which version of history do you read?
3. Since Gandhi supported non-violence he must be a moron
On 1, You should then thank Gandhi that it was due to his appeasement policies, which helped the creation of TSP and the reason why he was killed.
On 2, to, To set the record straight, it was Gandhi who went on a fast to oppose the british government;s idea of separate electorates for the Scheduled Castes. His chief opponent was Ambedkar, who he convinced/compelled that it was not a good idea. Ambedkar, however towards the end did convert to buddhism, after independence.
On 3, Contempt alone will not help us learn from Gandhi. An analysis of his actions in the context of the given environment will allow us to make sure the mistakes are not repeated and the positive elements are retained.
[right][snapback]42003[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
let me clarify.
#1
partition was good for india - because in parting with 2 pieces of india, we also partitioned half the camel jockey population out of india.
i do maintain that we should have partitioned a lot mre camel jockeys and a lot less land.
#2
ambedkar did more than any other indian to restore the dignity of the lower castes and pull india out of the ills of the social injustice that the caste system snowballed into. its because of him that we had someone like Tarun Das as the chairman of FICCI, that we produced a Meghnath Saha, a K R Narayanan and a lot many of other eminent people from the lower castes.
but for him india's human resource wouldnt have been tapped into, to the extent it is. i hope that in another 50 years the contribution of the underpriveledged castes in all walks of life will be as much as that of the upper castes.
too bad that some of the lower castes especially the dalits harbour separatist designs, instead of trying to latch on to the positive discrimination (rightly) handed unto them and joining the mainstream. amdedkar also did a very wise thing by not converting to christianity or islam but buddhism instead. i have no problems with the dalits becomming buddhists, for buddhists arnt millitant like christians.
#3
i support non violence too. and yet i am not a moron. and nor was gandhi a moron just cos he supported non violence.
he was a moron cos he supported non-violence as a PLAUSIBLE MEANS TO ACHIEVE INDEPENDENCE.
non-violence solves social problems, like that of discrimination, be it apartheid in south africa or the rosa parks thing in usa or closer home, the caste system.
but nonviolence and other utopian crap doesnt throw out an enemy who's out to kill your people and economically strangle your nation. non-violence is not the way to stop huns, turks, mongols or germanics.
and whats is TSP ??
seperate electorate maybe not, but reservations for s.c. in parliament and in govt jobs and education institutes is a move that i support whole heartedly.
the s.t. thingie is a sham though, since the AIT is a hoax. reservations on the masis of religion is a sham too, cos there's no "oppressed" religion in india, save hinduism.
what we need to leaen from is not gandhi's mistakes but the mistakes of the people who followed this gutless person instead of backing sarvarkar and netaji. what we need to learn from is not nehru's mistakes but from the mistakes of the people, especially in the hindi heartland, who show such fanatical devotion to this butthead and even his progeny. there'd never be any gandhi or nehru but for the support the gutless and selfrespectless people of india gave them. thats what we need to work on. as long as indians dont learn to stand up and fight when in mortal danger, as long as indians remain wimps, we will keep having jokers like these as our leaders and not firebrands like a tilak or a netaji or a patel.