08-26-2005, 10:29 PM
FWIW,
there's an 11 volume History of India compiled by R.C.Majumdar, the pioneering work on Brit dominion in india by Kulkarni, V.D.Mahajan's works to name a few that makes the same conclusions. (Most ppl in this line whatever be their politics agree that the Majumdar's compilation is the most exhaustive BTW)
J. Sarkar(?), one of the greatest nationalist Historians went as far as to say (quote) "The First National War of Independence was neither the first, nor national nor war of independence". Other distinguished nationalist historians like Sen, Munshi, R.K.Mukherjee, Sarkar, Shastri et all (THE ones who pioneered nationalist historiography, not commie charlatans) reach the same concusion...... i.e at least the part about the lack of our incompetence, poor strategy, accidental heroisms and the fact that they were led by the nose by crafty Islamist powers. But some maintain that it was the 1st battle of independence notwithstanding "Pithamahan" Sarkar's and Majumdar's views. Personally, I like to think of this as the first step..... indication of things to come and an expression of anger at the British.
But if anyone here has reliable information on this that the doyens of nationalist history (let alone commie hisssstorians like Jha, S.Sarkar and co) missed out, I would be most interested. AFAIK, none of them said that the organisation, tactics, ops, battle drill of the Indian powers was of any challenge to the Britsh empire.
<Start Sermon mode>
The modern ideas of Independence, democracy, individualism, humanism etc hadn't even penetrated into India by that time...even though the west had eagerly lapped it up (but applicable to white folks onlee, pleej). We missed out on the Industrial and Intellectual revolution. Thus, on a rather technical sense, it wasn't a "War for Independence". It was independence in the sense that we wanted the Angrez out of our lands, but the modern concept of Independence and Democracy sank in and became a part of the larger Indian National Movement and Polity only after the INC's Lahore and Karachi sessions of 1929 and 1931. One can consider it as the first expression of freedom from the British Yoke, not "freedom" as we understand today. It was the first real challenge to the Brits and almost all of India responded in one way or another.
Lets not go high on polemics, that's too Paki. We should not blind overselves by our own patriotism, our intentions might be good but then the path to hell is paved with good intentions (as Anakin Skywalker reminded us recently <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). There are many sides to an issue that have to be studied......one more cliche, The devil's in the details. Close your eyes to him and he will come back to bite our a$$
<End Sermon mode>
****************
The question is not winning or losing...... We have been celebrating big time a movement that was so horribly crushed, machinegunned, bombed and mowed down by machine-cannons.... The Quit India Movement. (Similarly we have been only subduedly commemorating RIN revolt, INA episode, the revolutionary terrorist movements phases one and two..... Think why exactly we don't CELEBRATE and highlight them full blast?).
The fact is putting this monumental, groundbreaking BUT a very "unpleasant" movement, fraught with confusion, monumental incompetence on many instances, terrible atrocities unequal-unequal, internal strife, parochial interests and restorative and backward looking can bring a lot of unnecessary bad PR in the situation i said in my previous post. The last thing we need in the 150th anniversary of the great rising is some Commie rats, Brit apologists and Mullahs defiling it on national TV....further poisoning young Indians.
I expected some knee jerk reaction here, this is a real can of worms. If this is what happens in a forum where all members are well, very much in the same frequency...... imagine what will happen when the GOI goes all out on celebrations and the commies, Brits, Islamists come to roost.
I'm not advocating cancelling the celebrations ... just that there are many ways to skin a cat. Personalities and battles to focus on, things that should be selectively highlighted... a little bit of subtlety.
Anyway, just my 2 paisa.
Cheers!
there's an 11 volume History of India compiled by R.C.Majumdar, the pioneering work on Brit dominion in india by Kulkarni, V.D.Mahajan's works to name a few that makes the same conclusions. (Most ppl in this line whatever be their politics agree that the Majumdar's compilation is the most exhaustive BTW)
J. Sarkar(?), one of the greatest nationalist Historians went as far as to say (quote) "The First National War of Independence was neither the first, nor national nor war of independence". Other distinguished nationalist historians like Sen, Munshi, R.K.Mukherjee, Sarkar, Shastri et all (THE ones who pioneered nationalist historiography, not commie charlatans) reach the same concusion...... i.e at least the part about the lack of our incompetence, poor strategy, accidental heroisms and the fact that they were led by the nose by crafty Islamist powers. But some maintain that it was the 1st battle of independence notwithstanding "Pithamahan" Sarkar's and Majumdar's views. Personally, I like to think of this as the first step..... indication of things to come and an expression of anger at the British.
But if anyone here has reliable information on this that the doyens of nationalist history (let alone commie hisssstorians like Jha, S.Sarkar and co) missed out, I would be most interested. AFAIK, none of them said that the organisation, tactics, ops, battle drill of the Indian powers was of any challenge to the Britsh empire.
<Start Sermon mode>
The modern ideas of Independence, democracy, individualism, humanism etc hadn't even penetrated into India by that time...even though the west had eagerly lapped it up (but applicable to white folks onlee, pleej). We missed out on the Industrial and Intellectual revolution. Thus, on a rather technical sense, it wasn't a "War for Independence". It was independence in the sense that we wanted the Angrez out of our lands, but the modern concept of Independence and Democracy sank in and became a part of the larger Indian National Movement and Polity only after the INC's Lahore and Karachi sessions of 1929 and 1931. One can consider it as the first expression of freedom from the British Yoke, not "freedom" as we understand today. It was the first real challenge to the Brits and almost all of India responded in one way or another.
Lets not go high on polemics, that's too Paki. We should not blind overselves by our own patriotism, our intentions might be good but then the path to hell is paved with good intentions (as Anakin Skywalker reminded us recently <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). There are many sides to an issue that have to be studied......one more cliche, The devil's in the details. Close your eyes to him and he will come back to bite our a$$<End Sermon mode>
****************
The question is not winning or losing...... We have been celebrating big time a movement that was so horribly crushed, machinegunned, bombed and mowed down by machine-cannons.... The Quit India Movement. (Similarly we have been only subduedly commemorating RIN revolt, INA episode, the revolutionary terrorist movements phases one and two..... Think why exactly we don't CELEBRATE and highlight them full blast?).
The fact is putting this monumental, groundbreaking BUT a very "unpleasant" movement, fraught with confusion, monumental incompetence on many instances, terrible atrocities unequal-unequal, internal strife, parochial interests and restorative and backward looking can bring a lot of unnecessary bad PR in the situation i said in my previous post. The last thing we need in the 150th anniversary of the great rising is some Commie rats, Brit apologists and Mullahs defiling it on national TV....further poisoning young Indians.
I expected some knee jerk reaction here, this is a real can of worms. If this is what happens in a forum where all members are well, very much in the same frequency...... imagine what will happen when the GOI goes all out on celebrations and the commies, Brits, Islamists come to roost.
I'm not advocating cancelling the celebrations ... just that there are many ways to skin a cat. Personalities and battles to focus on, things that should be selectively highlighted... a little bit of subtlety.
Anyway, just my 2 paisa.
Cheers!