Vishal wishful thinking by you !!! Perhaps that is what Nehru thought 50 years ago. Only think is that the Chinese proved to be the wrong neighbours for India. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->India has 3 options ->
1)choose china as closer ally or friend or business partner(its impossible due to lack of contacts between chinese and indian community)
2)choose US as strategic ally(i think we did this suicide already by leaning towards US and also showing hasty interest in missile defense program )
3)be neutral and treat both as per our needs on case by case basis(WE are too late to think over this BEST OPTION.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Option 1 and 3 suits Chinese ambitions pretty well. But they will not serve Indian interests. You can't remain neutral in this game. Either you play and survive or you get played over and surrender. You have to be a player, or else you will be outplayed by everyone, both the west and the Chinese or perhaps both. Is that what you are sugesting ? I have posted a link in the clash of civilizations thread. Please read it carefully, before you comment on Indian strategists.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->We are doing same mistake again which we did in 1965 of ignoring China angle.
When our think tanks think about weapons deals with US(not Israel) they ignore what impact it will have on china-india equations in ASIA.This is a mistake.
We must INCREASE military co-operation with china.We must MAKE clear to US we are no way going to compete with china in defense modernisation.
CHINA will do modernisation bcoz it feels un-secure from WEST.By making defense deals with WEST we are making india-china relations more BAD.
A TIP from me : in long term,friendship with china is better and safer than with West.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After having experienced 1961, if you still advise the Indians to trust and side with the Chinese would be like keeping your head safe under the Chinese gun pointed at your head. Chinese like Pakistanis and NKoreans and might call them as their allies, because they do almost everything they tell them to do. What I mean is that Chinese need slaves or would like to use you like a condom, without any greater freedom to their allies. Pakis and NKoreans will pay first for the mistake of joining hands with teh Chinese.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Bcoz west is noone's friend,never be.While china can become our best friend bcoz
1)we are neighbours
2)we don't have any old rivalry.If there is anything then its border problems which are not any big issues.
3)as far as china's help to pak is concerned it is bcoz china feels india is going closer US and feels in-secure.And india is ONLY INCREASING their feeling by going close and closer to US. IF china is given assurance they are secure from our side then pukki-support will get narrow year by year.(don't expect close-up bcoz china also need weapons market as pukki).
4)A powerfull neighbour in Asia as india's close friend.WHAT can be better thing for india(and most destructing thing for WEST)?......just imagine two biggest economies of world as close friends and neighbour too!!!(so they can fight together with any enemy of them in world!!)
5)Noone in the world(including US,brits) can think of attacking india or china due to this DEADLY combination of 2.5 billion people of ASIA! (this is the main reason why US is always un-easy when indian PM visits china).
6)If you agree with above 5 points then you will agree with me that washigton will DO EVERYTHING in his power and reach to avoid closer india-china relations. US may offer defense missile,phalcon(already did...a mess,it infuriated our neighbour
.......what can be worse THING that can happen to two neighbours in ASIA.....WEST must be laughing how they succeded again keeping DEADLY combination away from meeting... )
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All the reasons given here come out of naivity and ignorance of the relationship of India with China. Perfect defeatist analogy and thinking with no vision for India, but doing everything not to offend the Chinese even if it is not in Indian interests.
Let me Xplain ....
Point #1 Chinese being neighbour. Doesn't make them our ally. Being neighbour doesn't qualify them to dictate terms on India. Infact a militarily strong nation taht is suspicious about India dealing with the west, is a threat to India.
Point #2 Have you heard or Taimur and Cheingis Khan and what did their dynasty do to India ? Do you know Taimur's roots ? Do you know that there are more than millions of innocent Tibetian refugees living in India ? Do you know that China occupies and or claims more than 125,000 SQ Kms of Indian land apart from making Tibet an enemy land for India ? Do you think that since India wants to partner China, the Chinese will not give nukes to Pakistan ? Don't be naive and think like a defeatist or a child. In this era, Darwinism prevails. That's is the fitter will survive. If your aim is not to compete and play the games you will be outplayed and out smarted by everyone since you will remain the weak link and also since you are not in the game you will never understad the dynamics and the intencity of the game. You must talk to Chola on BRF. I think you missed his points.
Point#3 is utter garbage ... Why should Indian foreign policies be held hostage to China ? Why should India keep the US and the west away from India, just because it bothers the Chinese ? What will India get in return from China ? WHY should China gets concerned by our relationship with the west be it US or UK or anyone else for that matter of fact ? WHY do you want India to act based on what the Chinese concerns DICTATE, unless you are a Chinese stooge ? Why ????
Don't you know that India is a independent nation and can and should act independent of its bullying neighbours and address its concerns ?
Point #4 Tell your Chinese bosses that it takes two for a tango, and 1961 has created such a great distrust that Chinese will have to do more to erase the BAD memories. The memories of 1961 can not and will not be erased if Chinese keep funding the paki army and giving them the WMDs and missiles.
Point #5 Day dreaming. Believing China is as good as loosing the game at the very begining. If you can not think of any more moves to counter the Chinese mminent threats to India, you must form a team who can think of new moves and play your cards. That's the reason a dynastic rule is not good for any nation. Because one families thinkings are imposed on to the nation of a Billion people.
Point #6 I am not amused.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Another mess was joint military excercises.Our leaders AGAIN neglected strategic consequences of this act in regard with china-india relations.AGAIN WEST is laughing.....they succeded.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Should India care who is laughing and who is not ?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->One more thing i forgot is that in this game Greatest Victory of West will be lowering the heat between india-RUSSIA relations by PUSHING more modern and latest weapons from ISrael or directly(HTCG-agreement) with India. Reaction of this will be increased HEAT of relations(defense deals) between CHINA and
RUSSIA(they simply need money....so won't mind selling large stuffs...carriers,submarines...updation) to counter the heat between india and US.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What makes you think that Russia will not sell China more weapons if India doesn't buy weapons from Israel or the west ?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->so guys think again,who we should go closer with.....having 2 million NRI community in US and more business ties is not enough reason to invite bigger mess and miss more healthy ties(india-china)as it can be superpower of asia which west never wanna see.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why should China think that India dealing with the west is bad fo them, unless they are suspicious about India? If they are suspicious about India, how can Indians be their allies ?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->MY FINAL WORDS ARE,
The Divide And Rule that Brits played with indian kings to rule India some centuries ago,today The Same Game WEST is playing with CHINA and India
expect more defense deals from west in coming days...Â
that was my assesment of things.....maybe right..
my suggestion : make realtions with all of our neighbours better first before dealing or running for WEST.bocz,it only our neighbour which matches in culture with us not the greedy West.
thanks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The mistake Indians did in the past was that they fought among themselves and were not uinted, but now we are united. In the past we didn't give much attention to arm ourself to defend India, but now we must and we are moving in the right direction. India should concentrate on enhancing and strengthening both its economy and military. Development of only one is not going to help India. We must strike a balance and form appropriate alliance to counter our immediate threats which comes from Pakistan, BD and China.
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->India has 3 options ->
1)choose china as closer ally or friend or business partner(its impossible due to lack of contacts between chinese and indian community)
2)choose US as strategic ally(i think we did this suicide already by leaning towards US and also showing hasty interest in missile defense program )
3)be neutral and treat both as per our needs on case by case basis(WE are too late to think over this BEST OPTION.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Option 1 and 3 suits Chinese ambitions pretty well. But they will not serve Indian interests. You can't remain neutral in this game. Either you play and survive or you get played over and surrender. You have to be a player, or else you will be outplayed by everyone, both the west and the Chinese or perhaps both. Is that what you are sugesting ? I have posted a link in the clash of civilizations thread. Please read it carefully, before you comment on Indian strategists.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->We are doing same mistake again which we did in 1965 of ignoring China angle.
When our think tanks think about weapons deals with US(not Israel) they ignore what impact it will have on china-india equations in ASIA.This is a mistake.
We must INCREASE military co-operation with china.We must MAKE clear to US we are no way going to compete with china in defense modernisation.
CHINA will do modernisation bcoz it feels un-secure from WEST.By making defense deals with WEST we are making india-china relations more BAD.
A TIP from me : in long term,friendship with china is better and safer than with West.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After having experienced 1961, if you still advise the Indians to trust and side with the Chinese would be like keeping your head safe under the Chinese gun pointed at your head. Chinese like Pakistanis and NKoreans and might call them as their allies, because they do almost everything they tell them to do. What I mean is that Chinese need slaves or would like to use you like a condom, without any greater freedom to their allies. Pakis and NKoreans will pay first for the mistake of joining hands with teh Chinese.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Bcoz west is noone's friend,never be.While china can become our best friend bcoz
1)we are neighbours
2)we don't have any old rivalry.If there is anything then its border problems which are not any big issues.
3)as far as china's help to pak is concerned it is bcoz china feels india is going closer US and feels in-secure.And india is ONLY INCREASING their feeling by going close and closer to US. IF china is given assurance they are secure from our side then pukki-support will get narrow year by year.(don't expect close-up bcoz china also need weapons market as pukki).
4)A powerfull neighbour in Asia as india's close friend.WHAT can be better thing for india(and most destructing thing for WEST)?......just imagine two biggest economies of world as close friends and neighbour too!!!(so they can fight together with any enemy of them in world!!)
5)Noone in the world(including US,brits) can think of attacking india or china due to this DEADLY combination of 2.5 billion people of ASIA! (this is the main reason why US is always un-easy when indian PM visits china).
6)If you agree with above 5 points then you will agree with me that washigton will DO EVERYTHING in his power and reach to avoid closer india-china relations. US may offer defense missile,phalcon(already did...a mess,it infuriated our neighbour
.......what can be worse THING that can happen to two neighbours in ASIA.....WEST must be laughing how they succeded again keeping DEADLY combination away from meeting... )
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All the reasons given here come out of naivity and ignorance of the relationship of India with China. Perfect defeatist analogy and thinking with no vision for India, but doing everything not to offend the Chinese even if it is not in Indian interests.
Let me Xplain ....
Point #1 Chinese being neighbour. Doesn't make them our ally. Being neighbour doesn't qualify them to dictate terms on India. Infact a militarily strong nation taht is suspicious about India dealing with the west, is a threat to India.
Point #2 Have you heard or Taimur and Cheingis Khan and what did their dynasty do to India ? Do you know Taimur's roots ? Do you know that there are more than millions of innocent Tibetian refugees living in India ? Do you know that China occupies and or claims more than 125,000 SQ Kms of Indian land apart from making Tibet an enemy land for India ? Do you think that since India wants to partner China, the Chinese will not give nukes to Pakistan ? Don't be naive and think like a defeatist or a child. In this era, Darwinism prevails. That's is the fitter will survive. If your aim is not to compete and play the games you will be outplayed and out smarted by everyone since you will remain the weak link and also since you are not in the game you will never understad the dynamics and the intencity of the game. You must talk to Chola on BRF. I think you missed his points.
Point#3 is utter garbage ... Why should Indian foreign policies be held hostage to China ? Why should India keep the US and the west away from India, just because it bothers the Chinese ? What will India get in return from China ? WHY should China gets concerned by our relationship with the west be it US or UK or anyone else for that matter of fact ? WHY do you want India to act based on what the Chinese concerns DICTATE, unless you are a Chinese stooge ? Why ????
Don't you know that India is a independent nation and can and should act independent of its bullying neighbours and address its concerns ?
Point #4 Tell your Chinese bosses that it takes two for a tango, and 1961 has created such a great distrust that Chinese will have to do more to erase the BAD memories. The memories of 1961 can not and will not be erased if Chinese keep funding the paki army and giving them the WMDs and missiles.
Point #5 Day dreaming. Believing China is as good as loosing the game at the very begining. If you can not think of any more moves to counter the Chinese mminent threats to India, you must form a team who can think of new moves and play your cards. That's the reason a dynastic rule is not good for any nation. Because one families thinkings are imposed on to the nation of a Billion people.
Point #6 I am not amused.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Another mess was joint military excercises.Our leaders AGAIN neglected strategic consequences of this act in regard with china-india relations.AGAIN WEST is laughing.....they succeded.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Should India care who is laughing and who is not ?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->One more thing i forgot is that in this game Greatest Victory of West will be lowering the heat between india-RUSSIA relations by PUSHING more modern and latest weapons from ISrael or directly(HTCG-agreement) with India. Reaction of this will be increased HEAT of relations(defense deals) between CHINA and
RUSSIA(they simply need money....so won't mind selling large stuffs...carriers,submarines...updation) to counter the heat between india and US.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What makes you think that Russia will not sell China more weapons if India doesn't buy weapons from Israel or the west ?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->so guys think again,who we should go closer with.....having 2 million NRI community in US and more business ties is not enough reason to invite bigger mess and miss more healthy ties(india-china)as it can be superpower of asia which west never wanna see.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why should China think that India dealing with the west is bad fo them, unless they are suspicious about India? If they are suspicious about India, how can Indians be their allies ?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->MY FINAL WORDS ARE,
The Divide And Rule that Brits played with indian kings to rule India some centuries ago,today The Same Game WEST is playing with CHINA and India
expect more defense deals from west in coming days...Â
that was my assesment of things.....maybe right..
my suggestion : make realtions with all of our neighbours better first before dealing or running for WEST.bocz,it only our neighbour which matches in culture with us not the greedy West.
thanks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The mistake Indians did in the past was that they fought among themselves and were not uinted, but now we are united. In the past we didn't give much attention to arm ourself to defend India, but now we must and we are moving in the right direction. India should concentrate on enhancing and strengthening both its economy and military. Development of only one is not going to help India. We must strike a balance and form appropriate alliance to counter our immediate threats which comes from Pakistan, BD and China.