12-13-2005, 07:17 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->well the fact of the matter is that not only did those germanic barbarian brigades NOT produce all civilization, they in fact produced NO civilization.
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Ben Ami,
Leaving aside the neo-nazis and the likes of their like-minded friend Vikram for the moment, what you've written isn't really true.
You see, the pre-Christian Germans did have a civilisation. They had large and impressive buildings, although I don't think it was really quite urban living like Aztec, Chinese, Egyptian, Greek, Indian, Iranian, Mayan, Roman, Zimbabwean, etc cities. They had their own way of life, were one with nature and until they became Vikings, were actually living in more harmony with their Saami* neighbours in Scandinavia than post-Christianity when the Saami were treated infernally. Even the Vikings were better compared to the Christians, as they had good relations with Jewish and Arabian people. They weren't racists by any stretch of the imagination, although they treated everyone somewhat roughly (they'd quickly make slaves out of members of their own village!) However they honoured friendship and valued keeping promises.
Although they hated Christians (selling the English and other European converts to Middle-Eastern Muslims!) - but considering that Christianity had attacked them in a horrid manner and killed millions of Germanic people before the Nordic tribes were considered for conversion, their dislike is hardly surprising.
The Celts seemed to have known writing but did not commit their knowledge to writing on purpose (the pluspoint being that their religious knowledge wasn't twisted like our Hindu scriptures, but the minus point is that no one now knows much of their beliefs). The Germanic tribes got their rune script from Etruscan and Latin and Greek alphabets. So, although their writing wasn't their own, they had their valuable good points as mentioned and that's enough to make the grade of civilisation in my book.
Their buildings and culture were horridly destroyed and mangled by the onslaught of Christianity (there really is no other term for it - millions of Germanic heathens were hacked to death - witness their terms for the Christians: Cretin and Bigot).
The Eddas, bits of their prose, were compiled by a Christian monk Snorri S. He had a soft spot for his ancient culture, but not enough to let the Norse Gods live eternally. Snorri, in his putting the Eddas into writing, killed off the Norse Gods, albeit in a heroic final battle.
Racism really was alien to Germanic/Nordic tribes (as it was to Greeks and Romans who had slaves but did not distinguish between fair and dark skin). Claiming/stealing other people's cultures was also unfamiliar to them. I have no choice but to chalk this misdevelopment up to the malign influences of Christianity. Like Islam introduced racism to the non-racist Arabians.
*The Saami are the people of Lappland, the Finno-Ugric shamanistic people, related to the Finnish, Siberians and many Estonians. Originally from Siberia and possibly Mongolia, they are distantly related to some Hungarians, and a little more distantly to the people of Turkestan (and Turkey). The Saami entired Scandinavia maybe 10,000 years ago. Their religions are very like North American Native religions and the Koreans and Japanese. (The Finnish shamanists claim a connection with the Koreans and Japanese).
Unsurprisingly, many Saami have light eyes and fair hair. Some still have some eastern features, but their appearance is very much adapted to their climate.
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Ben Ami,
Leaving aside the neo-nazis and the likes of their like-minded friend Vikram for the moment, what you've written isn't really true.
You see, the pre-Christian Germans did have a civilisation. They had large and impressive buildings, although I don't think it was really quite urban living like Aztec, Chinese, Egyptian, Greek, Indian, Iranian, Mayan, Roman, Zimbabwean, etc cities. They had their own way of life, were one with nature and until they became Vikings, were actually living in more harmony with their Saami* neighbours in Scandinavia than post-Christianity when the Saami were treated infernally. Even the Vikings were better compared to the Christians, as they had good relations with Jewish and Arabian people. They weren't racists by any stretch of the imagination, although they treated everyone somewhat roughly (they'd quickly make slaves out of members of their own village!) However they honoured friendship and valued keeping promises.
Although they hated Christians (selling the English and other European converts to Middle-Eastern Muslims!) - but considering that Christianity had attacked them in a horrid manner and killed millions of Germanic people before the Nordic tribes were considered for conversion, their dislike is hardly surprising.
The Celts seemed to have known writing but did not commit their knowledge to writing on purpose (the pluspoint being that their religious knowledge wasn't twisted like our Hindu scriptures, but the minus point is that no one now knows much of their beliefs). The Germanic tribes got their rune script from Etruscan and Latin and Greek alphabets. So, although their writing wasn't their own, they had their valuable good points as mentioned and that's enough to make the grade of civilisation in my book.
Their buildings and culture were horridly destroyed and mangled by the onslaught of Christianity (there really is no other term for it - millions of Germanic heathens were hacked to death - witness their terms for the Christians: Cretin and Bigot).
The Eddas, bits of their prose, were compiled by a Christian monk Snorri S. He had a soft spot for his ancient culture, but not enough to let the Norse Gods live eternally. Snorri, in his putting the Eddas into writing, killed off the Norse Gods, albeit in a heroic final battle.
Racism really was alien to Germanic/Nordic tribes (as it was to Greeks and Romans who had slaves but did not distinguish between fair and dark skin). Claiming/stealing other people's cultures was also unfamiliar to them. I have no choice but to chalk this misdevelopment up to the malign influences of Christianity. Like Islam introduced racism to the non-racist Arabians.
*The Saami are the people of Lappland, the Finno-Ugric shamanistic people, related to the Finnish, Siberians and many Estonians. Originally from Siberia and possibly Mongolia, they are distantly related to some Hungarians, and a little more distantly to the people of Turkestan (and Turkey). The Saami entired Scandinavia maybe 10,000 years ago. Their religions are very like North American Native religions and the Koreans and Japanese. (The Finnish shamanists claim a connection with the Koreans and Japanese).
Unsurprisingly, many Saami have light eyes and fair hair. Some still have some eastern features, but their appearance is very much adapted to their climate.