12-15-2005, 01:55 PM
Ben Ami,
You've had only negative things to say about Europeans and have heaped greater offenses on Africans and Arabians through the implication of that stupid equation and language usage. By the way, the British called us negroes too (probably before they invented the AIT and were forced to find some sort of connection between us and Europeans instead).
The stereotyping on your part is dragging you down to the level of being exactly what you accuse the Europeans of: racism. You're better than this.
If you're a Hindu, then you probably believe in reincarnation. There is no law that says you always were and always will be born as an Indian or even Hindu. So arrogance on being Indian is unjustified in the face of Hindu beliefs. Unless you let go of it, chances are pretty likely that in your next life, God will give you a chance to experience being that which you now dislike, to gain a better understanding of another side.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->oh stop being utopian.
its not for us to bail them out. they can remaini-slammic for all i care just as long as they dont mess with us...er., anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If not us (bailing them out) who will? I'm not saying give them Hinduism, it will be alien to Arabians. But giving them back who they were is a good thing.
If you insist on thinking only about the welfare of our own people, then think of the Afghan women. Think of the Muslim men of Indian ethnicity (India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, etc) who go through life fearing being roasted in Islamic hell for any accidental transgression. How can we be happy when others are suffering? Extend this to all the world. Anywhere where people are oppressed by communism, narrow-minded religions or general suffering - the people at least deserve our compassion, even if we can't really do much or even anything for them. There is no Hinduism without realising the oneness of humanity, and in fact of all life. You call it utopian, but this is what our ancestors believed. Being happy and proud to be Hindu is to live as a Hindu and act according to dharma. We can uphold our beliefs without trampling all over others by insulting entire swathes of humanity.
I never implied that we should let Islam or other detrimental powers run over us. But that we should not respond with the same clouded judgement and angry minds. If there are other methods we can utilise to get them back into a peaceful lifestyle, we have to exhaust them all first. As ex-Muslim Iranian Zoroastrians often say: the best revenge on the Islam that eclipsed who they were is to get all Iranians back and move on by leaving the Islamic years behind. Likewise, I'd like all of Indian origin back into some Indian religion. For the world, I'd like everyone back to any peaceful aspects of their pre-Islamic, pre-Christian beliefs.
I've known ex-Muslim Hindus who are far more Hindu than some who comment here, including even some of your comments (about it not being up to us to bail others out... etc).
How are we better than anyone else? We're only as good as our thoughts. With impure thoughts leading to impure actions, we allow ourselves to become impure. We have to at least try and live up to our ancestors, if we want to take any credit for what they were as people. None of their other accomplishments compare to their greatness of mind, which was the cause of everything they were able to create. So we need to develop that mindset first. And to do that, we need to recognise all that is good in the world, not just in India.
Our ancestors knew that all communities of the world had good in them, that individuals of all backgrounds can be inspired by good thoughts. This fact has not changed over the millennia, so to think that we are special in any way is sheer stupidity. There is nothing genetically unique about us that makes us more capable of positive thinking. An easy example: Indians with Hindu ancestry who are Muslim or Christian now. They are still Indian, but because they are limited in their thinking by religious fears and religious rules, they are unable to be more accepting of others.
I guess I've been influenced by my parents and grandparents who grew up in Hindu villages and just kept to their way of life. I'm not used to thinking about globalisation as the solution for India, and about competing with western countries by imitating them. Indian civilisation worked entirely differently, our solutions to problems were uniquely our own.
Our only way of ever becoming a prosperous and well-rounded nation/civilisation again is to do it our way, the only way for us, by always (trying to) acting according to dharma. Otherwise, like present-day China, we'll be headed to become a clone of the US and western countries, having left who we are behind us. If we ever achieve it, we'll become the US in all but name. And we'll be more miserable than ever.
Perhaps you should talk to your grandparents, and learn from them what God means to us in Hinduism. If they are anything like my grandparents, they will teach you how important everyone's happiness in the world is to their own. Here's something my brother had given me on what a Hindu is: "The Song of the Hindu" by Bharat at http://www.atributetohinduism.com/quotes161_180.htm.
About the US. They have many nazis working there. In powerful positions. I don't doubt you already know this but it's worth reiterating. After WWII, the US hired many war criminals. Some in the US defense and intelligence departments are (or were until recent times) actually nazis who'd changed their German names to English ones. See http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJu...dAmericans.html
Also, many of the Ustashe (Croatian Nazis, Catholic*) who had genocided the Orthodox Serbians along with Jewish and Romany people were given a place in the US, whilst others were helped by the Vatican to escape to the UK, Australia, South America.
*many of them monks and at least two Ustashe bishops were beatified by the previous Pope.
You've had only negative things to say about Europeans and have heaped greater offenses on Africans and Arabians through the implication of that stupid equation and language usage. By the way, the British called us negroes too (probably before they invented the AIT and were forced to find some sort of connection between us and Europeans instead).
The stereotyping on your part is dragging you down to the level of being exactly what you accuse the Europeans of: racism. You're better than this.
If you're a Hindu, then you probably believe in reincarnation. There is no law that says you always were and always will be born as an Indian or even Hindu. So arrogance on being Indian is unjustified in the face of Hindu beliefs. Unless you let go of it, chances are pretty likely that in your next life, God will give you a chance to experience being that which you now dislike, to gain a better understanding of another side.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->oh stop being utopian.
its not for us to bail them out. they can remaini-slammic for all i care just as long as they dont mess with us...er., anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If not us (bailing them out) who will? I'm not saying give them Hinduism, it will be alien to Arabians. But giving them back who they were is a good thing.
If you insist on thinking only about the welfare of our own people, then think of the Afghan women. Think of the Muslim men of Indian ethnicity (India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, etc) who go through life fearing being roasted in Islamic hell for any accidental transgression. How can we be happy when others are suffering? Extend this to all the world. Anywhere where people are oppressed by communism, narrow-minded religions or general suffering - the people at least deserve our compassion, even if we can't really do much or even anything for them. There is no Hinduism without realising the oneness of humanity, and in fact of all life. You call it utopian, but this is what our ancestors believed. Being happy and proud to be Hindu is to live as a Hindu and act according to dharma. We can uphold our beliefs without trampling all over others by insulting entire swathes of humanity.
I never implied that we should let Islam or other detrimental powers run over us. But that we should not respond with the same clouded judgement and angry minds. If there are other methods we can utilise to get them back into a peaceful lifestyle, we have to exhaust them all first. As ex-Muslim Iranian Zoroastrians often say: the best revenge on the Islam that eclipsed who they were is to get all Iranians back and move on by leaving the Islamic years behind. Likewise, I'd like all of Indian origin back into some Indian religion. For the world, I'd like everyone back to any peaceful aspects of their pre-Islamic, pre-Christian beliefs.
I've known ex-Muslim Hindus who are far more Hindu than some who comment here, including even some of your comments (about it not being up to us to bail others out... etc).
How are we better than anyone else? We're only as good as our thoughts. With impure thoughts leading to impure actions, we allow ourselves to become impure. We have to at least try and live up to our ancestors, if we want to take any credit for what they were as people. None of their other accomplishments compare to their greatness of mind, which was the cause of everything they were able to create. So we need to develop that mindset first. And to do that, we need to recognise all that is good in the world, not just in India.
Our ancestors knew that all communities of the world had good in them, that individuals of all backgrounds can be inspired by good thoughts. This fact has not changed over the millennia, so to think that we are special in any way is sheer stupidity. There is nothing genetically unique about us that makes us more capable of positive thinking. An easy example: Indians with Hindu ancestry who are Muslim or Christian now. They are still Indian, but because they are limited in their thinking by religious fears and religious rules, they are unable to be more accepting of others.
I guess I've been influenced by my parents and grandparents who grew up in Hindu villages and just kept to their way of life. I'm not used to thinking about globalisation as the solution for India, and about competing with western countries by imitating them. Indian civilisation worked entirely differently, our solutions to problems were uniquely our own.
Our only way of ever becoming a prosperous and well-rounded nation/civilisation again is to do it our way, the only way for us, by always (trying to) acting according to dharma. Otherwise, like present-day China, we'll be headed to become a clone of the US and western countries, having left who we are behind us. If we ever achieve it, we'll become the US in all but name. And we'll be more miserable than ever.
Perhaps you should talk to your grandparents, and learn from them what God means to us in Hinduism. If they are anything like my grandparents, they will teach you how important everyone's happiness in the world is to their own. Here's something my brother had given me on what a Hindu is: "The Song of the Hindu" by Bharat at http://www.atributetohinduism.com/quotes161_180.htm.
About the US. They have many nazis working there. In powerful positions. I don't doubt you already know this but it's worth reiterating. After WWII, the US hired many war criminals. Some in the US defense and intelligence departments are (or were until recent times) actually nazis who'd changed their German names to English ones. See http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJu...dAmericans.html
Also, many of the Ustashe (Croatian Nazis, Catholic*) who had genocided the Orthodox Serbians along with Jewish and Romany people were given a place in the US, whilst others were helped by the Vatican to escape to the UK, Australia, South America.
*many of them monks and at least two Ustashe bishops were beatified by the previous Pope.