<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A SUDRA IS NOT A SUDRA BY BIRTH ALONE - NOR A BRAHMANA IS BRAHMANA BY BIRTH ALONE.
And people term him a Sudra in whom qualities do not exist, <b>even though he be a Brahmana by birth</b>.
CHARACTER IS THE CHIEF ESSENTIAL REQUISITE. WHATSOEVER NOW CONFORMS TO THE RULES OF PURE AND VIRTOUS CONDUCT, HIM HAVE I, ERE NOW, DESIGNATED AS A BRAHMANA." (Aranya Parva CLXXIX)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gangajal ji, I am in agreement with the above. The quotes above (relevant sections taken) shows that Varna still is dictated by birth. But it shows no one is superior or inferior by birth. The keyword "BY BIRTH ALONE" would not be relevant at all if Varna was purely guna/karma oriented. The qualification 'even though a Brahmana by birth' would be meaningless if there is no Jaati.
Like Swami Paramarthananda says. There are three classifications. Guna, Karma, and Jaati.
One can be a Janma Brahmana, Karma Kshatriya, and Guna Vaishya. There is no higher or lower based on Janma (i.e. Janma Brahmana is not higher than Janma Shudra), Karma too cannot differentiate (Karma Kshatriya is not higher or lower than Karma Vaishya as each one is doing only a specific duty.) But GUNA Brahmana is *definitely* higher than a Guna Kshatriya, who is higher than a Guna Vaishna, who is higher than a Guna Shudra.
He goes on to expand each quality in a 45 minute speech (available in two audio .RM files.) the public link on Yogamalika is gone as it it not archived anymore. I can send the rm files if interested.
Once again, let me reiterate my interpretation:
1) There IS a component of Varna dictated by Jaati. (Donât know when this started, but it is there.)
2) There is no high or low in the Varna based on Janma and Karma.
3) There is no limitation for any Varna to attain Liberation. Any and every Varna can attain Paragathih.
4) There has to be a demarkation when talking Paramarthika/Advaita, and when talking about Karma/Social issues. This line in Sanathana Dharma is very thin.
cheers,
Sunder.
PS: Thanks to you and Ashok ji I am now convinced that papayonayah is a noun rather than an adjective. (I do not have my Sankara Bhashyam with me now, as I lent it to a friend.) Anyone able to post Shankara's interpretation of 9:32 ?
And people term him a Sudra in whom qualities do not exist, <b>even though he be a Brahmana by birth</b>.
CHARACTER IS THE CHIEF ESSENTIAL REQUISITE. WHATSOEVER NOW CONFORMS TO THE RULES OF PURE AND VIRTOUS CONDUCT, HIM HAVE I, ERE NOW, DESIGNATED AS A BRAHMANA." (Aranya Parva CLXXIX)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gangajal ji, I am in agreement with the above. The quotes above (relevant sections taken) shows that Varna still is dictated by birth. But it shows no one is superior or inferior by birth. The keyword "BY BIRTH ALONE" would not be relevant at all if Varna was purely guna/karma oriented. The qualification 'even though a Brahmana by birth' would be meaningless if there is no Jaati.
Like Swami Paramarthananda says. There are three classifications. Guna, Karma, and Jaati.
One can be a Janma Brahmana, Karma Kshatriya, and Guna Vaishya. There is no higher or lower based on Janma (i.e. Janma Brahmana is not higher than Janma Shudra), Karma too cannot differentiate (Karma Kshatriya is not higher or lower than Karma Vaishya as each one is doing only a specific duty.) But GUNA Brahmana is *definitely* higher than a Guna Kshatriya, who is higher than a Guna Vaishna, who is higher than a Guna Shudra.
He goes on to expand each quality in a 45 minute speech (available in two audio .RM files.) the public link on Yogamalika is gone as it it not archived anymore. I can send the rm files if interested.
Once again, let me reiterate my interpretation:
1) There IS a component of Varna dictated by Jaati. (Donât know when this started, but it is there.)
2) There is no high or low in the Varna based on Janma and Karma.
3) There is no limitation for any Varna to attain Liberation. Any and every Varna can attain Paragathih.
4) There has to be a demarkation when talking Paramarthika/Advaita, and when talking about Karma/Social issues. This line in Sanathana Dharma is very thin.
cheers,
Sunder.
PS: Thanks to you and Ashok ji I am now convinced that papayonayah is a noun rather than an adjective. (I do not have my Sankara Bhashyam with me now, as I lent it to a friend.) Anyone able to post Shankara's interpretation of 9:32 ?