01-24-2006, 07:01 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Were they any worse than the muslims that had invaded India in the past.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good point. But the nazis used the latest technology (gas chambers, etc) and performed cruel scientific experiments on their victims. Not that this is out of reach of The Faithful now, but it didn't happen during the centuries of invasions. So it might still have been outside of Vivekananda's imagination.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->By eve of WW2, it was simply time for the Germans to come to speed (after their first WW1 attempt had failed).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> WWI failed, but it was not an attempt at land-grabbing or imperialism. It was a foolish attempt to "relive the old glory days of European war" and for coming to the aid of their brother-country Austria-Hungary. They learnt the hard way that there was no glory in 20th century wars, only poison gasses etc.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In international matters, there is no right or wrong<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is in human, spiritual matters. This was wrong. The choices we make and the reasons we have for making them matter very greatly. For example, Netaji can't explain away his choice to Krishna in such matters by stating "patriotism" as the reason. Wrong is wrong, it doesn't change from yesterage to this. International matters swing left and right minute by minute and are of no moment. Yesterday the Taliban were America's friend, today they are (officially) on their hitlist (unofficially the relationship's changed but little since the Cold War).
While we are here, we must consciously act and do the right thing. Netaji was either not aware of his choices or consciously made the wrong one. Either way, he was wrong. One can't say "his heart was in the right place" because if it were, he should have had the sense to do a bit more research into what he was getting himself and his blind followers into: why didn't he bother to find out what Hitler's views were on India's Independence? Either Netaji had no sense or he was wrong (neither case deserving of admiration) - and all he had was blind patriotism, if that. But that didn't save the country and never could have.
Unconsidered actions for the cause of patriotism can result in serious consequences. What if Hitler had won? What if he came to India and took over? (Remember, Hitler was known for <i>not</i> keeping his word, eg. the Warsaw Pact). If he suffered any of us to live (I doubt it) we'd be kept under his thumb - far worse off than under the English. How long will Subhas Bose have been considered a hero?
Having successfully displaced the British tyrants with the Hitler demon, I seriously doubt we'll have any gratitude for Bose - I don't think his begging Hitler to spare us would have had much effect either. It certainly wouldn't for India's Jewish population. Hitler would probably have set the Muslims to kill us, like he used them to help the Ustashe kill the Serbs. Thank God that Hitler and nazism failed and nothing came of Bose's very misplaced enthusiasm.
Hitler couldn't stomache Jewish and Slavic people - both Caucasian people - who were "untermenschen" (subhumans) to him. He wanted the former dead and the second cleared away for "lebensraum". Now, I can't imagine how quickly he'd have wiped us - and the rest of the non-white people in the world - off the face of the Earth. And we'll have had Bose to thank for all of that.
My view on this case coincides with Aurobindo's (reposting from post #171):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->What we have to see is on<b> which side </b>men and nations put themselves; if they put themselves on the right side, they at once make themselves instruments of the Divine purpose ... The victory of one side (the Allies) would keep the path open for the evolutionary forces: the victory of the other side would drag back humanity...<b>That is the whole question and all other considerations are either irrelevant or of a minor importance</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->By eve of WW2, it was simply time for the Germans to come to speed (after their first WW1 attempt had failed).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> WWI failed, but it was not an attempt at land-grabbing or imperialism. It was a foolish attempt to "relive the old glory days of European war" and for coming to the aid of their brother-country Austria-Hungary. They learnt the hard way that there was no glory in 20th century wars, only poison gasses etc.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In international matters, there is no right or wrong<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is in human, spiritual matters. This was wrong. The choices we make and the reasons we have for making them matter very greatly. For example, Netaji can't explain away his choice to Krishna in such matters by stating "patriotism" as the reason. Wrong is wrong, it doesn't change from yesterage to this. International matters swing left and right minute by minute and are of no moment. Yesterday the Taliban were America's friend, today they are (officially) on their hitlist (unofficially the relationship's changed but little since the Cold War).
While we are here, we must consciously act and do the right thing. Netaji was either not aware of his choices or consciously made the wrong one. Either way, he was wrong. One can't say "his heart was in the right place" because if it were, he should have had the sense to do a bit more research into what he was getting himself and his blind followers into: why didn't he bother to find out what Hitler's views were on India's Independence? Either Netaji had no sense or he was wrong (neither case deserving of admiration) - and all he had was blind patriotism, if that. But that didn't save the country and never could have.
Unconsidered actions for the cause of patriotism can result in serious consequences. What if Hitler had won? What if he came to India and took over? (Remember, Hitler was known for <i>not</i> keeping his word, eg. the Warsaw Pact). If he suffered any of us to live (I doubt it) we'd be kept under his thumb - far worse off than under the English. How long will Subhas Bose have been considered a hero?
Having successfully displaced the British tyrants with the Hitler demon, I seriously doubt we'll have any gratitude for Bose - I don't think his begging Hitler to spare us would have had much effect either. It certainly wouldn't for India's Jewish population. Hitler would probably have set the Muslims to kill us, like he used them to help the Ustashe kill the Serbs. Thank God that Hitler and nazism failed and nothing came of Bose's very misplaced enthusiasm.
Hitler couldn't stomache Jewish and Slavic people - both Caucasian people - who were "untermenschen" (subhumans) to him. He wanted the former dead and the second cleared away for "lebensraum". Now, I can't imagine how quickly he'd have wiped us - and the rest of the non-white people in the world - off the face of the Earth. And we'll have had Bose to thank for all of that.
My view on this case coincides with Aurobindo's (reposting from post #171):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->What we have to see is on<b> which side </b>men and nations put themselves; if they put themselves on the right side, they at once make themselves instruments of the Divine purpose ... The victory of one side (the Allies) would keep the path open for the evolutionary forces: the victory of the other side would drag back humanity...<b>That is the whole question and all other considerations are either irrelevant or of a minor importance</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->