01-25-2006, 04:25 AM
<b>Ben Ami,</b>
I haven't ever accused you of being Romila Thaparish (or anything as horrid). I've already told you that I hate her (not in those words, but I said she had no brain... so same thing). I really can't say it any clearer than that.
I may come up in defense of our Jains, Parsees, Tibetan Buddhists and Jews because India is carrying endangered minorities - some indigenous, others were immigrants at some point in time. They look to us for protecting them. If good but vulnerable people depend on us, it is wrong to let them down. Of course Hindus matter greatly to me, I'd be lying if I said they weren't foremost in my mind.
Since you've thrown so many accusations my way, you'll just have to accept one from my end: I guess if India was an all-Christian/Marxist/Islamic nation filled with patriots, you'd still be happy for them being patriots. For myself, I wouldn't care about such an India at all.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->so murders have grown progressively more attrocious just cos technology got advanced?? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>What I said: </b>So it might still have been outside of Vivekananda's imagination.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I was talking about Vivekananda who couldn't have imagined the extent of what a degenerate kind like the nazis were capable of.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->human spritual religious matters are not what is topmost in one's mind when one is fighting for his country, when one is fighting to throw out oppressors.
...
btw, in the mahabharata, krishna's advice to arjun was to go and kill them - cos sometimes you got to, especially when your own life is at threat.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The Gita and Mahabharata say a lot more than that. Bhisma siding with the Kauravas was wrong, in spite of his reasons being right. Krishna wasn't on the side of Duryodhana, he didn't tell him to go and kill the Pandavas. The side does matter and appealing to the Mahabharata to support Bose's choice does not help.
The Gita says that in all actions of man, God, Dharma and one's Atma should be the topmost in one's mind.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->you have the jewish media or your lack of acumen to thank for that impeccable analysis of how netaji allied with the axis powers to ensure the indian population would get wiped away with the help of the muslims.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> (Don't know any Jewish media*). I meant Hitler wouldn't keep any promises of sparing the Indian (Hindu) population and would probably control or even exterminate us (if we got too vocal in our dissent) with the help of the ever ready Islamic presence. I never accused Bose of masterminding that, he just didn't appear to have foreseen that danger.
*I'm also not under the delusion that Jewish people control the US media, as the KKK and other Christian fundies keep repeating. It's anti-Semetic Christian paranoia that the Jewish people are trying to bring down the White Christian "culture". You've been too long in the US and a little of their constant propaganda on this point has somehow managed to seep through even your well-guarded head.
<b>Ashok Kumar,</b>
You're right that I shouldn't have alluded to Bose's choices as being "idiotic". Thanks for correcting me on some other points as well.
I am rather afraid about the admiration for Netaji for several reasons. Most of which I've so far identified. But there's an additional one, the most obvious one, that concerns our present rather than the past.
Anti-Hindu/anti-Indian interests waste no time in blackening Indians' stance anyway they can. They won't care for the reasons of why Bose did whatever he did. They will not bother to research him, and even if they did do the research they will not admit to any non-nazi motives on his account. Any open support from the present Hindu community to someone like Bose will just make western and general anti-Hindu interests within India produce some media item with the headline: "Hindus commemorate Hindu-nazi ally" with brief photos or letters or whatever of Bose with German nazis to "prove" their point. This is what the world will get to see.
For proof of how the smallest irrelevant thing can get twisted into "collaboration or support for nazis" see http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/article.../golwalkar.html <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But to give an idea of just how routinely these two quotations [of Golwalkar] are <b>employed to build the Hindutva movement's image</b>, let us first mention their presentation in a <b>BBC documentary on the Bharatiya Janata Party </b>("Indian People's Party"), broadcast on 17 June <b>1993</b>.
Typically, the speaker announcing the documentary, who spent no more than two sentences on its contents, already said that it would "reveal the connections of the organization behind the BJP with Nazi Germany", this organization being the RSS. In the documentary, an actor dressed and made up to look like Golwalkar in his younger days, read out the two paragraphs. However, no actual connection between the RSS and Nazi Germany was revealed. In fact, the entire 45 minutes did not contain any other information about or quotations from the RSS's ideological classics: not from Golwalkar's later publications, nor from any other Hindutva ideologue. Till today, and even in academic publications, it is very common to see the anti-BJP rhetoric built entirely on these few sentences in Golwalkar's pamphlet of more than sixty years ago.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Admiration for Bose won't affect our relations with Tibet, Israel or our Parsee community as they know us better, so they'll actually bother to dig deeper and find out the facts of history. However, western and Indian anti-Hindu interests are <b>looking </b>for any flaws they can find - surface flaws will suffice when they can find nothing worse. Nothing puts the civilians of the west on guard faster than supposed links to nazism. It's hypocrisy, but inescapable. Their governments are looking for reasons and opportunities to send more missionaries and other (worse) troubles our way, and this will definitely help them get their people's willing consent. At least we need to avoid giving them the ammunition. They care nothing for truth, they already regularly identify Hinduism with nazism (perhaps in their desperate attempt to conceal that Christianity is the cause for nazism). Witzel is but the tip of a huge iceberg.
Indians today need to be careful about anything and everything we do, because there are interests (including India's leftists) watching, waiting and hoping for us to trip. And since they know we don't trip that we've never made the blunder of inhumanity, they've got tripwires laid out and wait around for our next fall.
I retain my opinion of Bose's choice in siding with Hitler, although I admit I was very wrong about his patriotism and that his motives were purer than I had understood. I'm glad to think somewhat better of him, but the end still does not justify the means for me.
I haven't ever accused you of being Romila Thaparish (or anything as horrid). I've already told you that I hate her (not in those words, but I said she had no brain... so same thing). I really can't say it any clearer than that.
I may come up in defense of our Jains, Parsees, Tibetan Buddhists and Jews because India is carrying endangered minorities - some indigenous, others were immigrants at some point in time. They look to us for protecting them. If good but vulnerable people depend on us, it is wrong to let them down. Of course Hindus matter greatly to me, I'd be lying if I said they weren't foremost in my mind.
Since you've thrown so many accusations my way, you'll just have to accept one from my end: I guess if India was an all-Christian/Marxist/Islamic nation filled with patriots, you'd still be happy for them being patriots. For myself, I wouldn't care about such an India at all.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->so murders have grown progressively more attrocious just cos technology got advanced?? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>What I said: </b>So it might still have been outside of Vivekananda's imagination.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I was talking about Vivekananda who couldn't have imagined the extent of what a degenerate kind like the nazis were capable of.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->human spritual religious matters are not what is topmost in one's mind when one is fighting for his country, when one is fighting to throw out oppressors.
...
btw, in the mahabharata, krishna's advice to arjun was to go and kill them - cos sometimes you got to, especially when your own life is at threat.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The Gita and Mahabharata say a lot more than that. Bhisma siding with the Kauravas was wrong, in spite of his reasons being right. Krishna wasn't on the side of Duryodhana, he didn't tell him to go and kill the Pandavas. The side does matter and appealing to the Mahabharata to support Bose's choice does not help.
The Gita says that in all actions of man, God, Dharma and one's Atma should be the topmost in one's mind.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->you have the jewish media or your lack of acumen to thank for that impeccable analysis of how netaji allied with the axis powers to ensure the indian population would get wiped away with the help of the muslims.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> (Don't know any Jewish media*). I meant Hitler wouldn't keep any promises of sparing the Indian (Hindu) population and would probably control or even exterminate us (if we got too vocal in our dissent) with the help of the ever ready Islamic presence. I never accused Bose of masterminding that, he just didn't appear to have foreseen that danger.
*I'm also not under the delusion that Jewish people control the US media, as the KKK and other Christian fundies keep repeating. It's anti-Semetic Christian paranoia that the Jewish people are trying to bring down the White Christian "culture". You've been too long in the US and a little of their constant propaganda on this point has somehow managed to seep through even your well-guarded head.
<b>Ashok Kumar,</b>
You're right that I shouldn't have alluded to Bose's choices as being "idiotic". Thanks for correcting me on some other points as well.
I am rather afraid about the admiration for Netaji for several reasons. Most of which I've so far identified. But there's an additional one, the most obvious one, that concerns our present rather than the past.
Anti-Hindu/anti-Indian interests waste no time in blackening Indians' stance anyway they can. They won't care for the reasons of why Bose did whatever he did. They will not bother to research him, and even if they did do the research they will not admit to any non-nazi motives on his account. Any open support from the present Hindu community to someone like Bose will just make western and general anti-Hindu interests within India produce some media item with the headline: "Hindus commemorate Hindu-nazi ally" with brief photos or letters or whatever of Bose with German nazis to "prove" their point. This is what the world will get to see.
For proof of how the smallest irrelevant thing can get twisted into "collaboration or support for nazis" see http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/article.../golwalkar.html <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But to give an idea of just how routinely these two quotations [of Golwalkar] are <b>employed to build the Hindutva movement's image</b>, let us first mention their presentation in a <b>BBC documentary on the Bharatiya Janata Party </b>("Indian People's Party"), broadcast on 17 June <b>1993</b>.
Typically, the speaker announcing the documentary, who spent no more than two sentences on its contents, already said that it would "reveal the connections of the organization behind the BJP with Nazi Germany", this organization being the RSS. In the documentary, an actor dressed and made up to look like Golwalkar in his younger days, read out the two paragraphs. However, no actual connection between the RSS and Nazi Germany was revealed. In fact, the entire 45 minutes did not contain any other information about or quotations from the RSS's ideological classics: not from Golwalkar's later publications, nor from any other Hindutva ideologue. Till today, and even in academic publications, it is very common to see the anti-BJP rhetoric built entirely on these few sentences in Golwalkar's pamphlet of more than sixty years ago.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Admiration for Bose won't affect our relations with Tibet, Israel or our Parsee community as they know us better, so they'll actually bother to dig deeper and find out the facts of history. However, western and Indian anti-Hindu interests are <b>looking </b>for any flaws they can find - surface flaws will suffice when they can find nothing worse. Nothing puts the civilians of the west on guard faster than supposed links to nazism. It's hypocrisy, but inescapable. Their governments are looking for reasons and opportunities to send more missionaries and other (worse) troubles our way, and this will definitely help them get their people's willing consent. At least we need to avoid giving them the ammunition. They care nothing for truth, they already regularly identify Hinduism with nazism (perhaps in their desperate attempt to conceal that Christianity is the cause for nazism). Witzel is but the tip of a huge iceberg.
Indians today need to be careful about anything and everything we do, because there are interests (including India's leftists) watching, waiting and hoping for us to trip. And since they know we don't trip that we've never made the blunder of inhumanity, they've got tripwires laid out and wait around for our next fall.
I retain my opinion of Bose's choice in siding with Hitler, although I admit I was very wrong about his patriotism and that his motives were purer than I had understood. I'm glad to think somewhat better of him, but the end still does not justify the means for me.