05-10-2006, 10:54 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Bharat varsh gave a reference to rafiq zakaria about our honoured president. First of all one personal (as he is one identity and does not hold any post as a spokeman in any organisation ) comment can be judged as a whole statement to one's faith. Its his personal view on it. Come other day someone layman proclaim that Shankaracharya is a out of religion b'coz he is accused of conspirying in a murder. does that mean that his beloved follower will except it or take as granted no no. It is his personal view. And on the whole as of his family of respected abdul kalam azaad is a practicing muslim. sorry but I dont have that archive its in a indiatime paper of last ramzaan that he keeps fast all through the year.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rafiq Zakaria did not just give his personal opinion, he also gave supporting facts to backup his viewpoint and according to the Quran Kalam would be a kaffir since he reads the Bhagavad Gita, according to the Quran Muslims are not even supposed to have non Muslims as friends, let alone read their scriptures. Here is an example from the Quran:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->003.028
YUSUFALI: Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.
PICKTHAL: Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying.
SHAKIR: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are other verses that clearly say that Muslims are not supposed to make friends with Jews and Christians.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And of my brother Muslim safeguarding the nation as part army. One should feel ashame even to popularise such a comment about a person who's loyality is a standard for us (jawan). And In islam it is clearly written that patriotism is a cumpulsory service part of Islam in quran If you want I'll let u know quran chapter and point where it is. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually Islam does not recognise nationalism, this has been said by no less a person than Iqbal, if patriotism is a compulsory part of Islam then why were Indian Muslims like Shah Waliullah inviting Abdali to invade and destroy Hindus and Sikhs?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ok Bharat wants a proove for VHP enjoys killing muslim.
Stubborn arent u. VHP carries even fire arm training to its cadets. Its in a india today report of way back in 2002( cover story) and i personally have seen there training camps. And about killing muslim: all the accused areested in godhra pogrom were members of VHP. The bandh called out was of VHP and... In a recorded speech of pravin togadia shown on BBC channel 4 he calls out for to throw Muslims in Arabian sea as he want a Hindu rashtra or else accept Ram as a national hero to celebrate diwali. (throwing in sea naturally means killing).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Buddy what the hell are you talking about, the people arrested in the Godhra pogrom were all Muslims, so get your facts right and if Togadia made such a speech he should be behind bars but then again all Muslim organisations preach hate, go listen to the speeches of Imam Bukhari or even better Ali Mian, he even wrote a letter to Kuwait asking them to stop the construction of Gurudwaras in Kuwait.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And about bombing the sacred Kaaba and blackstone.
You should check out that kaaba was flooded several times with water even one of it wall was damaged. So Muslims have faith on ALLAH. Not in kaaba and black stone. My grand ma died without visiting Mecca. And she was pious muslim and she never ever visited any such sites. We muslim have faith on Eternal power and lord.not at all on blackstone its of historic imortance and thats it. same with kaaba.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any able Muslim is supposed to make the pilgrimage to Mecca atleast once in his/her lifetime, your nonsense has no relevance to what I said, if you claim that Hindu idols cannot even wipe off an ant crawling on them, I am saying that the same is true for the Quran and Kaaba, what was Muhammad doing kissing a stone?, that is worse idolatry than any Hindu idolatry I have ever seen, atleast we don't repeatedly kiss stones.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Damage by muslims to world??????
If at all you read news you will know about american killing in Iraq, afghanistan, bosnia and gujraat(state sponsored).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You claim you are not madrasa educated but your nonsense is showing the opposite, before Iraq or Afghanistan happened it was Muslims who attacked America (you forgot 9/11) and only then did US respond. Nextly in Bosnia US was on the side of Muslims, it was actually US which intervened and saved Muslims from the Serbs so get your facts right and if Gujarat was state sponsored how was it that 30% of the riot victims were Hindus?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->every action got equal reaction it s not at all self developed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well then Godhra burning got you a reaction in Gujarat riots so quit complaining.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And about Hindu. Why do u forget the 1984 anti sikh riots in which 5000 sikh were burnt.
the stalin family of orissa burnt alivein the car, the aftermath of godhra those horrific stories of muslim women. no one ever consider such a brutality. So you all peace loving concerned about world peace. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The anti sikh riots were organised by secular congress (which Muslims love so much) and BJP and RSS people actually tried to help out Sikhs and several Muslims were involved in killing Sikhs, here is a list of people allegedly involved in the anti Sikh riots, it was published by the secular news magazine called Outlook:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->WHO ARE THE GUILTY?
List Of People Identified By SurvivorsÂÂ
Annexure IV: H.K.L. Bhagat, Babu Ram Sharma, Sajjan Kumar, Lalit Makan, Dharam Das Shastri, Jagdish Tytler, Mahendra, Mangat Ram Singal, Dr. Ashok Kumar, Sukhan Lal Sood, Jagdish Chander Tokas -- all Congress politicians to police big wigs and others
I. POLITICIANS
The following is the list of those alleged to have instigated violence and/or protected alleged criminals.
1. Mr. H.K.L. Bhagat, Minister of state (Information and Broadcasting). On November 5, reported to have intervened to get miscreants released who were held in Shahdara Thana.
2. Babu Ram Sharma, Member, Municipal Corporation (Ward No. 58) reported to be the right-hand man of H. K. L. Bhagat. Reportedly responsible for loot, arson and murder in trance-Yamuna areas-Babarpur, Chajupur Colony, Maujpur, Gonda. Allegedly led people on motor cycle with megaphone.
3. Sajjan Kumar, Cong. (I) M.P. from Mangolpuri. Reported to have paid Rs. 100 and a bottle of liquor to each person involved in the killing.
4. Lalit Makan, Cong. (I) Trade Union Leader and Metropolitan Councillor. Reportedly paid to mob Rs. 100 each plus a bottle of liquor. A white ambassador car reportedly belonging to him came 4 times to the G.T. Road area near Azadpur. Instructions to mobs indulging in arson were given from inside the car.
5. Dharam Das Shastri, Cong. (I) M. P. from Karol Bagh. Reported to becarrying voters list with him at Prakash Nagar for identification of Sikhs. On November 5, according to newspaper reports, he along with other Congress-I leaders tried to pressurize the SHO of Karol Bagh Police Station to release the persons who arrested during the police raids to recover looted property.
6. Jagdish Tytler, Cong.(I) M. P. from Sadar Constitutency. On 6th November 5 p.m. he barged into a press conference that the Police Commissioner S. C. Tandon was holding. A journalist reports that he told the Police Commissioner that "by holding my men you are hampering the relief work".
7. Mahendra, Metropolitan Councillor. Reported to have accompanied Dharam Das Shastri with voters lists at Prakash Nagar.
8. Mangat Ram Singal, Member of Municipal Corporation (Ward No. 32) was reportedly with Dharam Das Shastri and Mahendra at Prakash Nagar.
9. Dr. Ashok Kumar, Member of Municipal Corporation, Kalyanpuri. Reportedly held a meeting in Kalyanpuri, following which violence broke out immediately. According to many eye witnesses he led mobs which indulged in loot, murder, arson and rape.
10. Sukhan Lal Sood, Metropolitan Councillor. According to eye witnesses was seen leading mobs, which indulged in loot, murder, arson and rape. He had come with petrol and serial lists and addressess of Sikhs in the locality. The women refugees, recognized him and drove him out.
11. Jagdish Chander Tokas, Member of Municipal Corporation Munirka (Ward No. 14) reportedly led a mob to R.K. Puram Sector IV and V.
12. Ishwar Singh, Member, Municipal Corporation, Mangolpuri (Ward No. 37). Allegedly led the mobs that indulged in looting, burning, rape and murder in Mangolpuri area.
13. Balwant Khokhar, Youth Congress-I Leader, Delhi, Identified as one of the persons responsible for instigating looting and arson in Palam Colony area.
14. Faiz Mohammad, Youth Congress-I Leader, Delhi, named by refugees in Shakurpur camp and in Mangolpuri for being a part of the mob indulging in looting, arson and murder.
15. Ratan, Youth Congress-I Leader, Delhi, named as having taken part in violence and looting in Palam Colony area.
16. Satbir Singh, Youth Congress-I. He allegedly brought bus loads of people from Ber Sarai to Sri Guru Harkrishan Public School (Munirka). They burnt school buses and parts of the school building. He was reportedly involved in looting and beating of Sikhs which carried on throughout the night on November 1.
II. POLICE
The following is the list of police officials allegedly responsible for negligence of duty and more abetment of /participation in violence :
1.Malhotra, ACP, East Districts at Shakarpur (under Shakarpur P. S.) Reported to have invited mobs. Heard to say "You should have blown up the Gurudwaras in addition to killing Bhatia (Congress-I worker, Trilochan Singh Bhatia ) of M. Block, Shakarpur. Mob was accompanied by Malhotra, who moved with one jeep, station-wagon, two men with sten-guns and revolvers, petrol-cans and stones. He supplied weapons to the mob, according to eve-witness accounts. Reportedly incited mobs at Laxmi Nagar, Gurunangal Nagar (under Shahdara P. S. )
2. Jai Singh, S.H.O., Allegedly told mobs in troubled area that they could do what they wanted for three days.
3. Rao Ram Mehar, S.H.O. at Shakarpur reportedly pointed out Shik shops and houses to the mob.
4. Hari Ram Bhatti, S.H.O. Sultanpuri P. S. reported to have helped the mob by disarming the Sikhs. On November 1 and 2 it is alleged that he himself killed them. On 3 and 4 reported to have had the Sikhs shaven at gun point.
5. Ravtas Singh, S.H.O. Sadar Thana. Reportedly broke into houses and indulged in arson.
6. Survir Singh, S.H.O. Kalyanpuri, P. S. He reported reached Trilokpuri (under Kalyanpuri P. S.) at 2.30 p.m. On November 1, when plunder and killing were going on. He immediately removed head constable and another constable from the spot, thereby giving the mob full licence to indulge in arson, rape and killing.
7. R. D. Singh, S.I. Information from refugees at Durgapuri Gurudwara, Loni Road that he abetted mobs and personally beat up and killed people.
8. S.H.O. and Constables. R. K. Puram Sector IV P. S. According to eye witness account when appealed to by two residents of Ber Sarai to project a Sikh family being attacked by a mob in Sector IV they categorically refused. Furhter, they are reported to have declared that Sikhs should be killed.
The following are the names of other police officials reported to have abetted / participated in violence in the mentioned areas :
9. Tyagi, S.H.O. in Trilokpuri.
10. Rana, Inspector-in-Trilokpuri.
11. Moolchand, S. I. In Shakarpur.
12. Bakshi, A.S.I. in Trilokpuri.
13. Rajvir Singh, Head Constable, Kalyanpuri, P. S. in Trilokpuri.
III OTHERS INVOLVED
The following is the list of persons allegedly involved in looting, arson and other criminal activities:
TRILOKPURI:
BLOCK -5
1. Papita, one of the ring leaders allegdly involved in murder.
BLOCK-12 :
2. Brahmani (Misrani) Shastri.
BLOCK-14 :
3. Baleshwar Bhargi alias Bhalu.
4. Bal Kishan
BLOCK-21 :
5. Bihari Dhobi.
BLOCK-25
6. B. D. Sharma.
BLOCK-27 :
7. Israi Ali (alias Chunnu).
8. Salim, Well known goonda, allegedly involved in murder.
9. Massa, opium dealer.
BLOCK-28 :
10. Dr. Yahya Siddiqi, Clinic at Main Road, Block -27, reportedly led the mob.\
11. Manu Singh, shop-keeper.
12. Soni, Railway Worker.
13. Mukesh, reportedly involved in loot and murder.
BLOCK-29 :
14. Mukri Master, Tailor, allegedly involved in murder.
BLOCK-30 :
15. Om Prakash (Omi), Mason, allegedly involved in murder.
16. Ved Prakash (Brother if Om Prakash), Handpump Mistri, allegedly involved in murder and rape.
17. Nur Jahan, reported to have incited Muslims by spreading the rumours that mosques have been burnt by Sikhs.
18. Keramat, Dealer in Cement.
19. Shabnam, TV shop owner.
20. Damesh
21. Punju
. 22. Salim allegedly involved in murder.
23.Abbas Son-in-law (see Abbas in Block 32).
24. Mukri, Video shop owner.
25. Hasin.
BLOCK-31 :
26. Kamaruddin, Atta-Chakki shop owner, and Furniture dealer.
27. Niyamat Ali.
28. Ninav, Tea shop owner.
29. Dr. V. P. Singh.
30. Duli Chand, Local Leader.
BLOCK-32:
31. Rampal Saroj, Pradhan and Congress -I worker. Allegedly responsible for killing of Gopal Singh, Ranjha Singh, Mekal Singh. Other charges against him are instigation, rape and burning.
32. Kishori lal and his four brothers, Shrawan, Sbrlya, Chhote, Kamal, own a Meat shop. Allegedly responsible for killing of HuRum Singh, Tirath, Sajjan Singh, Soma Singh, Tara Singh.
33. Jagga Sansi and wife Draupadi, allegedly responsible for burning, murder and rape.
34. Khadak Singh Pradhan.
35. Gaffar Khan, Businessman dealing in Cement.
36. Babu Khan, owns a dairy.
37. Manu Sansi
38. Aasim.
39. Somnath, allegedly responsible for killing of several persons including Hoshiar Singh S/o Milap Singh and 3 young men whom he locked in the house and killed later with other people.
40. Ajit.
41. Kadir.
42. Monga.
43. Sati.
44. Tello Sansi (Draupadi's sister)
45. Ruplal, allegedly responsible for killing of Labh Singh, r/o 32/121.
46. Omi Chamar, Shoemaker.
47. Morari, owns grocery shop in Block-31.
48. Pahelwan (Brother of Rashid).
49. Bachchan.
50. Aziz.
51. Ansar.
52. Kallo Khan, Dhaba owner.
53. Abbas, owns cloth and chappal shop in Block-27.
54. Dr. Lambo.
55. Bhallo, Sells liquors.
56. Kayamat Ali.
57. Raju (Bhangi), Sweeper.
58. Jaggi.
59. Bhaya.
60. Murli Khan.
61. Sher Khan.
62. Raja Ram, Rickshaw Driver.
63. Bethis Ramesh.
64. Bedhu Ram, allegedly responsible for killing in 32/99 and 32/97.
BLOCK -33:
65. Pappu, allegedly responsible for murder.
66. Bhum, local goonda.
67. Gyano, student.
68. Mohammad, Cycle shop owner.
69. Birju.
70. Zakir.
71. Kamal Singh, Rickshaw owner.
72. Munshi.
73. Rashid, Cycle Rickshaw repair shop in Block-32, allegedly involved in murder.
BLOCK- 34:
74. Mahendru.
75. Ratan (brother of Mahendru).
76. Behem Sharma.
77. Mahendra Pal.
78. Sher Singh, Shop keeper.
BLOCK- 35:
79. Jeevan.
BLOCK- 36:
80. B. B. Pandoy.
OTHER BLOCKS:
81. D. R. Lakhani, Youth Congress-I.
82. Abdulla.
83. Two sons of Sitaram, Milkman.
84. A.Mulla, lives near Mosque in Trilokpuri, teaches children in Mosque. Allegedly incited Muslims to go to burn two Gurudwaras of the locality.
85. Lakhan.
86. Rohtas, Land owner and Goala.
87. Rishi, Land owner and Goala.
88. Kripal, Land owner and Goala.
89. Brahrn (Tea shop owner in Trilokpuri).
90. Chabban & Munim, Cloth and Tailoring Shop near Mosque. Allegedly responsible for the death of Duleep Singh.
91. Babu Sharma.
SULTANPURI:
BLOCK- A- 4:
92. A. Bagri, Pradhan.
93. Brahmanand Gupta, Pradhan.
94. Nathu Pradhan, Sweeper.
95. Udal Jat.
96. Owner of Hanuman Ration shop.
97. Gayanand, Shop owner.
98. Ganpat, Shop owner.
99. Piria (Gujrati).
100. Gurbat Brothers.
101. Islam.
102. Rao.
103. Changa, Doctor.
104. Omi, auto-rickshaw driver.
105. Garib Das.
106. Vermanand, Kerosene seller.
BLOCK A-5:
107. Hasla Ram.
108. Mangla.
109. Satbir.
110. Salam.
BLOCK B-1:
111. Pal Brahman.
112. Samthu.
113. Khismvia.
114. Kumar.
BLOCK- 3:
115. Gopal & Brothers
116. Babbar & Father
117. Tiwari
118. Raghubir,Sweeper
119.Pratap,Sweeper
120. Wajiz
BLOCK- C- 4:
121. Barjilal & Sons.
122. Kalaram and 2 sons
123. Prem Singh alias Prem Muchiwal, Property dealer
124.Jai Kishan, Sweeper
125.Danny
126. Pappu
127. Raju
128. Ravikaran, Tailor
129. Kannaram.
130. Mohan Lal s/o Thekeda Komal
BLOCK P-3:
131. Tara Chand, Carpenter.
132. Master, Kerosene seller
133. Radhe Shyam, Mechanie
134. Babu Lal, Vegetable seller
135. The brother of Sikandar
136. Gulab Singh, owner of Godown
MONGOLPURl:
137. Hardwari Lal, Mandal President
138. Narendar Singh, Congress-I Worker
139. Salim Qureshi, Congress-I worker, belongs to Waqf Club
140. Shawkeen, Congress- I Worker, belong to Waqf Club
141. Malaram, Congress- I worker
142. Rajendar of New Star Club
143. Shiv Charan
MAUJPUR: GONDA:
144. Bhisno Joginder, Kerosene seller
145. Trilok, Flour Mill owner
146. Gupta, Paper seller
147. Delu Ram, Tailor's Apprentice
148. Ram Kishan, Tailor's Apprentice
149. Bhola, MilLman I
150. Balbir, Milkman s son
151. Prem, Barber
152. Gyan Malwai
153. Narain's son
154. Brahm
SHAKARPUR:
155. Bhatia, Congress - I Worker
156. Dogra, Congress-I worker
157. Mr. Singh, Congress-I worker
158. Lakshmi Dhoban, Mahila Samiti, allegedly instigated mobs to burns Sikhs alive.
159. Mr. Ashwini, BJP worker
160. Satpal, owner of 3-star hotel on main Shakarpur highway.
161. Ashok Kumar, owns a flour mill in Shakarpur.
162. Ram Niwas Sharma
163. Rohtas Singh, Shakarpur Village.
KHAJURI KHAS:
164. Kadam Singh, Panchayat Sarpanch
165. Nephews of Kadam Singh
166. Nambat Singh, owns Ration shop in the area.
167. Shyam Lal, Retired ASI.
168. Jai Singh, Kerosene seller
169. Jugnu.
170. Parsa
JANAKPURI:
171. Pratap, Pradhan of Sagarpur, allegedly responsible for killing 22 members of the family of Budh Singh of Sagarpur near Janakpuri.
BLOCK C:
172. Dablu, Sweeper
173. Kalia, Sweeper
174. Upli, Sweeper
175. Son Sasi
176. Mohan Sasi
177. Bhana Sasi
178. Raju, Sweeper
179. Malaram, allegedly distributed free kerosene
MANDAVALI: UNCHPUR
180. Sachdeva, property dealer
181. Raj Kalia, Cement dealer
182. Gupta, alias Chakki, owns Grocery store
183. Ram Prakash, works in Khadi Bhawan
184. Dr. Babbar
185. Dharam Pal
186. Kishan Dutt
187. Babu Ram
188.Lal Bahadur Mishra
189. Joshi
RAJNAGAR:
190. Balwan Khokkar
191. Mohinder Singh Bargdola
192. Pandit Tara Chand
193. Ishwar Chand Verma
194. Pandit Ram Niwas
SADAR BAZAAR:
195. Kamal, Dhobi
196. David, Dhobi's son
197. Vinayak Family
AZADPUR INDUSTRIAL AREA:
198. T. S. Bedi, Factory owner. On Nov. 1 he is reported to have organized mobs from early morning which became active later. While his own factory was left untouched, the neighbouring Crown Motors factory belonging to Sardar Pyare Singh was gutted the same day.
http://www.outlookindia.com/scriptur11w2.a...pucl&sid=17&pn=<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go through the list, you will see several Muslim names involved in murdering Sikhs.
As for the burning of staines (not stalin), why don't you talk about how many Hindus were murdered by xtians in the North East?
In Tripura the NFLT banned Durga Puja and wanted all tribals to become xtians. The Rheang tribals have been ethnic cleansed from Mizoram for refusing to convert by xtians.
Rafiq Zakaria did not just give his personal opinion, he also gave supporting facts to backup his viewpoint and according to the Quran Kalam would be a kaffir since he reads the Bhagavad Gita, according to the Quran Muslims are not even supposed to have non Muslims as friends, let alone read their scriptures. Here is an example from the Quran:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->003.028
YUSUFALI: Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.
PICKTHAL: Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying.
SHAKIR: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are other verses that clearly say that Muslims are not supposed to make friends with Jews and Christians.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And of my brother Muslim safeguarding the nation as part army. One should feel ashame even to popularise such a comment about a person who's loyality is a standard for us (jawan). And In islam it is clearly written that patriotism is a cumpulsory service part of Islam in quran If you want I'll let u know quran chapter and point where it is. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually Islam does not recognise nationalism, this has been said by no less a person than Iqbal, if patriotism is a compulsory part of Islam then why were Indian Muslims like Shah Waliullah inviting Abdali to invade and destroy Hindus and Sikhs?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ok Bharat wants a proove for VHP enjoys killing muslim.
Stubborn arent u. VHP carries even fire arm training to its cadets. Its in a india today report of way back in 2002( cover story) and i personally have seen there training camps. And about killing muslim: all the accused areested in godhra pogrom were members of VHP. The bandh called out was of VHP and... In a recorded speech of pravin togadia shown on BBC channel 4 he calls out for to throw Muslims in Arabian sea as he want a Hindu rashtra or else accept Ram as a national hero to celebrate diwali. (throwing in sea naturally means killing).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Buddy what the hell are you talking about, the people arrested in the Godhra pogrom were all Muslims, so get your facts right and if Togadia made such a speech he should be behind bars but then again all Muslim organisations preach hate, go listen to the speeches of Imam Bukhari or even better Ali Mian, he even wrote a letter to Kuwait asking them to stop the construction of Gurudwaras in Kuwait.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And about bombing the sacred Kaaba and blackstone.
You should check out that kaaba was flooded several times with water even one of it wall was damaged. So Muslims have faith on ALLAH. Not in kaaba and black stone. My grand ma died without visiting Mecca. And she was pious muslim and she never ever visited any such sites. We muslim have faith on Eternal power and lord.not at all on blackstone its of historic imortance and thats it. same with kaaba.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any able Muslim is supposed to make the pilgrimage to Mecca atleast once in his/her lifetime, your nonsense has no relevance to what I said, if you claim that Hindu idols cannot even wipe off an ant crawling on them, I am saying that the same is true for the Quran and Kaaba, what was Muhammad doing kissing a stone?, that is worse idolatry than any Hindu idolatry I have ever seen, atleast we don't repeatedly kiss stones.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Damage by muslims to world??????
If at all you read news you will know about american killing in Iraq, afghanistan, bosnia and gujraat(state sponsored).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You claim you are not madrasa educated but your nonsense is showing the opposite, before Iraq or Afghanistan happened it was Muslims who attacked America (you forgot 9/11) and only then did US respond. Nextly in Bosnia US was on the side of Muslims, it was actually US which intervened and saved Muslims from the Serbs so get your facts right and if Gujarat was state sponsored how was it that 30% of the riot victims were Hindus?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->every action got equal reaction it s not at all self developed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well then Godhra burning got you a reaction in Gujarat riots so quit complaining.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And about Hindu. Why do u forget the 1984 anti sikh riots in which 5000 sikh were burnt.
the stalin family of orissa burnt alivein the car, the aftermath of godhra those horrific stories of muslim women. no one ever consider such a brutality. So you all peace loving concerned about world peace. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The anti sikh riots were organised by secular congress (which Muslims love so much) and BJP and RSS people actually tried to help out Sikhs and several Muslims were involved in killing Sikhs, here is a list of people allegedly involved in the anti Sikh riots, it was published by the secular news magazine called Outlook:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->WHO ARE THE GUILTY?
List Of People Identified By SurvivorsÂÂ
Annexure IV: H.K.L. Bhagat, Babu Ram Sharma, Sajjan Kumar, Lalit Makan, Dharam Das Shastri, Jagdish Tytler, Mahendra, Mangat Ram Singal, Dr. Ashok Kumar, Sukhan Lal Sood, Jagdish Chander Tokas -- all Congress politicians to police big wigs and others
I. POLITICIANS
The following is the list of those alleged to have instigated violence and/or protected alleged criminals.
1. Mr. H.K.L. Bhagat, Minister of state (Information and Broadcasting). On November 5, reported to have intervened to get miscreants released who were held in Shahdara Thana.
2. Babu Ram Sharma, Member, Municipal Corporation (Ward No. 58) reported to be the right-hand man of H. K. L. Bhagat. Reportedly responsible for loot, arson and murder in trance-Yamuna areas-Babarpur, Chajupur Colony, Maujpur, Gonda. Allegedly led people on motor cycle with megaphone.
3. Sajjan Kumar, Cong. (I) M.P. from Mangolpuri. Reported to have paid Rs. 100 and a bottle of liquor to each person involved in the killing.
4. Lalit Makan, Cong. (I) Trade Union Leader and Metropolitan Councillor. Reportedly paid to mob Rs. 100 each plus a bottle of liquor. A white ambassador car reportedly belonging to him came 4 times to the G.T. Road area near Azadpur. Instructions to mobs indulging in arson were given from inside the car.
5. Dharam Das Shastri, Cong. (I) M. P. from Karol Bagh. Reported to becarrying voters list with him at Prakash Nagar for identification of Sikhs. On November 5, according to newspaper reports, he along with other Congress-I leaders tried to pressurize the SHO of Karol Bagh Police Station to release the persons who arrested during the police raids to recover looted property.
6. Jagdish Tytler, Cong.(I) M. P. from Sadar Constitutency. On 6th November 5 p.m. he barged into a press conference that the Police Commissioner S. C. Tandon was holding. A journalist reports that he told the Police Commissioner that "by holding my men you are hampering the relief work".
7. Mahendra, Metropolitan Councillor. Reported to have accompanied Dharam Das Shastri with voters lists at Prakash Nagar.
8. Mangat Ram Singal, Member of Municipal Corporation (Ward No. 32) was reportedly with Dharam Das Shastri and Mahendra at Prakash Nagar.
9. Dr. Ashok Kumar, Member of Municipal Corporation, Kalyanpuri. Reportedly held a meeting in Kalyanpuri, following which violence broke out immediately. According to many eye witnesses he led mobs which indulged in loot, murder, arson and rape.
10. Sukhan Lal Sood, Metropolitan Councillor. According to eye witnesses was seen leading mobs, which indulged in loot, murder, arson and rape. He had come with petrol and serial lists and addressess of Sikhs in the locality. The women refugees, recognized him and drove him out.
11. Jagdish Chander Tokas, Member of Municipal Corporation Munirka (Ward No. 14) reportedly led a mob to R.K. Puram Sector IV and V.
12. Ishwar Singh, Member, Municipal Corporation, Mangolpuri (Ward No. 37). Allegedly led the mobs that indulged in looting, burning, rape and murder in Mangolpuri area.
13. Balwant Khokhar, Youth Congress-I Leader, Delhi, Identified as one of the persons responsible for instigating looting and arson in Palam Colony area.
14. Faiz Mohammad, Youth Congress-I Leader, Delhi, named by refugees in Shakurpur camp and in Mangolpuri for being a part of the mob indulging in looting, arson and murder.
15. Ratan, Youth Congress-I Leader, Delhi, named as having taken part in violence and looting in Palam Colony area.
16. Satbir Singh, Youth Congress-I. He allegedly brought bus loads of people from Ber Sarai to Sri Guru Harkrishan Public School (Munirka). They burnt school buses and parts of the school building. He was reportedly involved in looting and beating of Sikhs which carried on throughout the night on November 1.
II. POLICE
The following is the list of police officials allegedly responsible for negligence of duty and more abetment of /participation in violence :
1.Malhotra, ACP, East Districts at Shakarpur (under Shakarpur P. S.) Reported to have invited mobs. Heard to say "You should have blown up the Gurudwaras in addition to killing Bhatia (Congress-I worker, Trilochan Singh Bhatia ) of M. Block, Shakarpur. Mob was accompanied by Malhotra, who moved with one jeep, station-wagon, two men with sten-guns and revolvers, petrol-cans and stones. He supplied weapons to the mob, according to eve-witness accounts. Reportedly incited mobs at Laxmi Nagar, Gurunangal Nagar (under Shahdara P. S. )
2. Jai Singh, S.H.O., Allegedly told mobs in troubled area that they could do what they wanted for three days.
3. Rao Ram Mehar, S.H.O. at Shakarpur reportedly pointed out Shik shops and houses to the mob.
4. Hari Ram Bhatti, S.H.O. Sultanpuri P. S. reported to have helped the mob by disarming the Sikhs. On November 1 and 2 it is alleged that he himself killed them. On 3 and 4 reported to have had the Sikhs shaven at gun point.
5. Ravtas Singh, S.H.O. Sadar Thana. Reportedly broke into houses and indulged in arson.
6. Survir Singh, S.H.O. Kalyanpuri, P. S. He reported reached Trilokpuri (under Kalyanpuri P. S.) at 2.30 p.m. On November 1, when plunder and killing were going on. He immediately removed head constable and another constable from the spot, thereby giving the mob full licence to indulge in arson, rape and killing.
7. R. D. Singh, S.I. Information from refugees at Durgapuri Gurudwara, Loni Road that he abetted mobs and personally beat up and killed people.
8. S.H.O. and Constables. R. K. Puram Sector IV P. S. According to eye witness account when appealed to by two residents of Ber Sarai to project a Sikh family being attacked by a mob in Sector IV they categorically refused. Furhter, they are reported to have declared that Sikhs should be killed.
The following are the names of other police officials reported to have abetted / participated in violence in the mentioned areas :
9. Tyagi, S.H.O. in Trilokpuri.
10. Rana, Inspector-in-Trilokpuri.
11. Moolchand, S. I. In Shakarpur.
12. Bakshi, A.S.I. in Trilokpuri.
13. Rajvir Singh, Head Constable, Kalyanpuri, P. S. in Trilokpuri.
III OTHERS INVOLVED
The following is the list of persons allegedly involved in looting, arson and other criminal activities:
TRILOKPURI:
BLOCK -5
1. Papita, one of the ring leaders allegdly involved in murder.
BLOCK-12 :
2. Brahmani (Misrani) Shastri.
BLOCK-14 :
3. Baleshwar Bhargi alias Bhalu.
4. Bal Kishan
BLOCK-21 :
5. Bihari Dhobi.
BLOCK-25
6. B. D. Sharma.
BLOCK-27 :
7. Israi Ali (alias Chunnu).
8. Salim, Well known goonda, allegedly involved in murder.
9. Massa, opium dealer.
BLOCK-28 :
10. Dr. Yahya Siddiqi, Clinic at Main Road, Block -27, reportedly led the mob.\
11. Manu Singh, shop-keeper.
12. Soni, Railway Worker.
13. Mukesh, reportedly involved in loot and murder.
BLOCK-29 :
14. Mukri Master, Tailor, allegedly involved in murder.
BLOCK-30 :
15. Om Prakash (Omi), Mason, allegedly involved in murder.
16. Ved Prakash (Brother if Om Prakash), Handpump Mistri, allegedly involved in murder and rape.
17. Nur Jahan, reported to have incited Muslims by spreading the rumours that mosques have been burnt by Sikhs.
18. Keramat, Dealer in Cement.
19. Shabnam, TV shop owner.
20. Damesh
21. Punju
. 22. Salim allegedly involved in murder.
23.Abbas Son-in-law (see Abbas in Block 32).
24. Mukri, Video shop owner.
25. Hasin.
BLOCK-31 :
26. Kamaruddin, Atta-Chakki shop owner, and Furniture dealer.
27. Niyamat Ali.
28. Ninav, Tea shop owner.
29. Dr. V. P. Singh.
30. Duli Chand, Local Leader.
BLOCK-32:
31. Rampal Saroj, Pradhan and Congress -I worker. Allegedly responsible for killing of Gopal Singh, Ranjha Singh, Mekal Singh. Other charges against him are instigation, rape and burning.
32. Kishori lal and his four brothers, Shrawan, Sbrlya, Chhote, Kamal, own a Meat shop. Allegedly responsible for killing of HuRum Singh, Tirath, Sajjan Singh, Soma Singh, Tara Singh.
33. Jagga Sansi and wife Draupadi, allegedly responsible for burning, murder and rape.
34. Khadak Singh Pradhan.
35. Gaffar Khan, Businessman dealing in Cement.
36. Babu Khan, owns a dairy.
37. Manu Sansi
38. Aasim.
39. Somnath, allegedly responsible for killing of several persons including Hoshiar Singh S/o Milap Singh and 3 young men whom he locked in the house and killed later with other people.
40. Ajit.
41. Kadir.
42. Monga.
43. Sati.
44. Tello Sansi (Draupadi's sister)
45. Ruplal, allegedly responsible for killing of Labh Singh, r/o 32/121.
46. Omi Chamar, Shoemaker.
47. Morari, owns grocery shop in Block-31.
48. Pahelwan (Brother of Rashid).
49. Bachchan.
50. Aziz.
51. Ansar.
52. Kallo Khan, Dhaba owner.
53. Abbas, owns cloth and chappal shop in Block-27.
54. Dr. Lambo.
55. Bhallo, Sells liquors.
56. Kayamat Ali.
57. Raju (Bhangi), Sweeper.
58. Jaggi.
59. Bhaya.
60. Murli Khan.
61. Sher Khan.
62. Raja Ram, Rickshaw Driver.
63. Bethis Ramesh.
64. Bedhu Ram, allegedly responsible for killing in 32/99 and 32/97.
BLOCK -33:
65. Pappu, allegedly responsible for murder.
66. Bhum, local goonda.
67. Gyano, student.
68. Mohammad, Cycle shop owner.
69. Birju.
70. Zakir.
71. Kamal Singh, Rickshaw owner.
72. Munshi.
73. Rashid, Cycle Rickshaw repair shop in Block-32, allegedly involved in murder.
BLOCK- 34:
74. Mahendru.
75. Ratan (brother of Mahendru).
76. Behem Sharma.
77. Mahendra Pal.
78. Sher Singh, Shop keeper.
BLOCK- 35:
79. Jeevan.
BLOCK- 36:
80. B. B. Pandoy.
OTHER BLOCKS:
81. D. R. Lakhani, Youth Congress-I.
82. Abdulla.
83. Two sons of Sitaram, Milkman.
84. A.Mulla, lives near Mosque in Trilokpuri, teaches children in Mosque. Allegedly incited Muslims to go to burn two Gurudwaras of the locality.
85. Lakhan.
86. Rohtas, Land owner and Goala.
87. Rishi, Land owner and Goala.
88. Kripal, Land owner and Goala.
89. Brahrn (Tea shop owner in Trilokpuri).
90. Chabban & Munim, Cloth and Tailoring Shop near Mosque. Allegedly responsible for the death of Duleep Singh.
91. Babu Sharma.
SULTANPURI:
BLOCK- A- 4:
92. A. Bagri, Pradhan.
93. Brahmanand Gupta, Pradhan.
94. Nathu Pradhan, Sweeper.
95. Udal Jat.
96. Owner of Hanuman Ration shop.
97. Gayanand, Shop owner.
98. Ganpat, Shop owner.
99. Piria (Gujrati).
100. Gurbat Brothers.
101. Islam.
102. Rao.
103. Changa, Doctor.
104. Omi, auto-rickshaw driver.
105. Garib Das.
106. Vermanand, Kerosene seller.
BLOCK A-5:
107. Hasla Ram.
108. Mangla.
109. Satbir.
110. Salam.
BLOCK B-1:
111. Pal Brahman.
112. Samthu.
113. Khismvia.
114. Kumar.
BLOCK- 3:
115. Gopal & Brothers
116. Babbar & Father
117. Tiwari
118. Raghubir,Sweeper
119.Pratap,Sweeper
120. Wajiz
BLOCK- C- 4:
121. Barjilal & Sons.
122. Kalaram and 2 sons
123. Prem Singh alias Prem Muchiwal, Property dealer
124.Jai Kishan, Sweeper
125.Danny
126. Pappu
127. Raju
128. Ravikaran, Tailor
129. Kannaram.
130. Mohan Lal s/o Thekeda Komal
BLOCK P-3:
131. Tara Chand, Carpenter.
132. Master, Kerosene seller
133. Radhe Shyam, Mechanie
134. Babu Lal, Vegetable seller
135. The brother of Sikandar
136. Gulab Singh, owner of Godown
MONGOLPURl:
137. Hardwari Lal, Mandal President
138. Narendar Singh, Congress-I Worker
139. Salim Qureshi, Congress-I worker, belongs to Waqf Club
140. Shawkeen, Congress- I Worker, belong to Waqf Club
141. Malaram, Congress- I worker
142. Rajendar of New Star Club
143. Shiv Charan
MAUJPUR: GONDA:
144. Bhisno Joginder, Kerosene seller
145. Trilok, Flour Mill owner
146. Gupta, Paper seller
147. Delu Ram, Tailor's Apprentice
148. Ram Kishan, Tailor's Apprentice
149. Bhola, MilLman I
150. Balbir, Milkman s son
151. Prem, Barber
152. Gyan Malwai
153. Narain's son
154. Brahm
SHAKARPUR:
155. Bhatia, Congress - I Worker
156. Dogra, Congress-I worker
157. Mr. Singh, Congress-I worker
158. Lakshmi Dhoban, Mahila Samiti, allegedly instigated mobs to burns Sikhs alive.
159. Mr. Ashwini, BJP worker
160. Satpal, owner of 3-star hotel on main Shakarpur highway.
161. Ashok Kumar, owns a flour mill in Shakarpur.
162. Ram Niwas Sharma
163. Rohtas Singh, Shakarpur Village.
KHAJURI KHAS:
164. Kadam Singh, Panchayat Sarpanch
165. Nephews of Kadam Singh
166. Nambat Singh, owns Ration shop in the area.
167. Shyam Lal, Retired ASI.
168. Jai Singh, Kerosene seller
169. Jugnu.
170. Parsa
JANAKPURI:
171. Pratap, Pradhan of Sagarpur, allegedly responsible for killing 22 members of the family of Budh Singh of Sagarpur near Janakpuri.
BLOCK C:
172. Dablu, Sweeper
173. Kalia, Sweeper
174. Upli, Sweeper
175. Son Sasi
176. Mohan Sasi
177. Bhana Sasi
178. Raju, Sweeper
179. Malaram, allegedly distributed free kerosene
MANDAVALI: UNCHPUR
180. Sachdeva, property dealer
181. Raj Kalia, Cement dealer
182. Gupta, alias Chakki, owns Grocery store
183. Ram Prakash, works in Khadi Bhawan
184. Dr. Babbar
185. Dharam Pal
186. Kishan Dutt
187. Babu Ram
188.Lal Bahadur Mishra
189. Joshi
RAJNAGAR:
190. Balwan Khokkar
191. Mohinder Singh Bargdola
192. Pandit Tara Chand
193. Ishwar Chand Verma
194. Pandit Ram Niwas
SADAR BAZAAR:
195. Kamal, Dhobi
196. David, Dhobi's son
197. Vinayak Family
AZADPUR INDUSTRIAL AREA:
198. T. S. Bedi, Factory owner. On Nov. 1 he is reported to have organized mobs from early morning which became active later. While his own factory was left untouched, the neighbouring Crown Motors factory belonging to Sardar Pyare Singh was gutted the same day.
http://www.outlookindia.com/scriptur11w2.a...pucl&sid=17&pn=<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go through the list, you will see several Muslim names involved in murdering Sikhs.
As for the burning of staines (not stalin), why don't you talk about how many Hindus were murdered by xtians in the North East?
In Tripura the NFLT banned Durga Puja and wanted all tribals to become xtians. The Rheang tribals have been ethnic cleansed from Mizoram for refusing to convert by xtians.