02-09-2004, 09:47 AM
Check this article :
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit200401229.html
And here's the response sent by a good friend:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Cringley's attempt to be what he is passionate about is just fine , and a wee bit amusing . Point by point , the defence :
1. India does have 50% of the worlds SEI CIMM operations, some add on PCMM and Sigma Sixes too, and Cringley would do well to contact Carnegie Mellon, Motorola etc who authored these ideas as to what they can actully do to a process. More bad news for him, the busiest phone lines in UK, the British Rail, 50% will ring in India soon . Got cousins , should ask them why here, and why not Ireland, Scotland, Philippines, Outer Mongolia or Iowa.
2. India is indeed a very poor county. A vast majority of us live below $2 per day and it really pains my heart as they are all over so unavoidable, and no faulting them . The match up with US is , GDP per capita $35,060 : $480 , a ratio of over 73: 1, needless to say who the winner has been and will still be for decades to come . And we know here that the credit for this misery goes more to our politicians than the West. US has generously provided about $3m in aid to India this year , a few hundred million to Pakistan and billions to Iraq , Afghanistan, Israel, Egypt . For years .Excluding Pakistan all have much higher living standards than India. The whole of Africa gets lesser than these most deserving aid-dope happy countries do. I think Bill gives more here than the US as a country as do many other charities.  I am not talking per capita official aid here at all , we all can divide a generous $3m or even a $ 300 m by a billion. We are definitely waiting to see the magic of miniscule fractions work for us work here.Seems like homeopathy to me . One would have to present arguments from Marx and Angels or read from the economic handbook of the Soviet State Mangers on "managed international trade the third decimal"  as he suggests be practiced with India types .Would the forum allow such extreme thought provoking arguments, just to give the right of rebuttal to some of us here . Simply put, and no ideology BS ,  India still runs a trade deficit with the world .And trade we think is about buying at the best price and not about balancing books with each supplier . Ask any corporation. The US investment money comes here on economic and not philanthropic considerations . India has received much less of US or world investments than China, though is just about one America less by way of population. Calculations say provides better ROI . The US indeed faces a problem with China.. The investment is creating a huge cheap export base money that threatens every other economy too , and money on money returns are awaited . This generosity  feeds the likes of Wal-Mart, and that I presume is the Big Bad Store is the subject of another blog here. My advise would be to not to do any thing stupid to anger the Chinese as they having taken in billions in investment do take in $250 billion in imports as well. Knowing US has no way with them , are very likely to talk back if lectured on socialism and protectionism. Believe in 2 Tits for a Tat diplomacy . Can and will hurt US investments on their soil. We ( Indians) do manage a slight trade surplus with them, but is a very recent development . As the article seems to be mostly in the "emotionally logical" genere, Mr. Cringley calmly forgets that the tech Indian worker in US come from a poor country where the education is highly subsidized at the cost of essential social services.They then leave to study further,  work, spend, pay taxes and social security most of them in US. And as most don't stay the required years the social security is not refunded, but pays for the dentures of some aging American. As some of the present hullabaloo we are told is said to be election year rhetoric, Will it be appropriate to say, as we Indians in the US are not a vote bank large enough, like the illegal Mexicans for Mr. Bush, we need not be given easier terms for work permits even where there is a desperate need , much less treated as citizenry as haven't crawled under the fences .We shall as we do continue to compete with all others for the declining but still available work visas. I am not getting into the ridiculous idea of demanding a compensation for the subsidies we $480 earners left behind here have paid to educate them and are deprived of their productive output,  as the system here has failed to keep them interested and properly utilized , if they were to stay, as a majority of us still do. Or for that matter ask for a refund from the US of the unused social security, or mention the fees the US universities earn from some of them,  Indians now being the biggest foreign student group some universities do need them to keep going . Gets too messy and is a difficult a computation as well , may even be considered a ridiculous divisionary track by an emotional, and passionate person, which I admit I am about the rights of an individual over political and nationalistic whims.
3. Mckinsey's analytical methods too have at times proven inadequate at times , but it amazes me why today US needs nurses, teachers, even PhDs specially in the mathematical and technological disciplines and Americans don't apply ? Is it that the work is a wee bit harder or the ROI on advanced education lesser ? It also amazes me that America has no cheap household help, eat out of tins or do take always. Come home to the cleaning and washing after a hard days work , and the weekend is meant for the bushy grass . I sure earn less than a fifth of what I would earn in US . But in less than $100 per month a few household workers keep my life easy. They clean, cook, wash , make bed, iron, run small errands, call the plumber, electrician, water the plants . Surely there are no Americans wanting these jobs in US either, like the nurses and PhDs , and if you had them available at market driven rates , you would have a life as good as mine. Iwould further , I don't employ child labor, pay strictly market rates , and to me is like a monthly outsourcing contract of house jobs so that I can do more of what like . I am as they say in China , am a "Capitalist Pig" looking for a better "QOL" .
4. I am no futurologist, but do remember reading some where that some time back that the knowalls thought a few computers would suffice for the whole world. The "differentiator" argument is interesting but competition and ingenuity are always at work, so one can never be sure to have found one. Have yet to hear of a lasting man made differentiator. When Mr. Cringely or any one else discovers it, or discovers a way to discover it, no need to tootle the horn and administer a lecture to the merciless economic forces of globalization or the poor attempting to get out of their misery thru plain old hard and smart work , just patent, trademark , register it, use it . The proven pudding thingy.
My own suggestion would be lets see if we can use the possibility to our mutual advantage . Let's exchange our young , educated, entrepreneurial for your rusty and the nasty. We may be able to build cheaper prisons here, and a $1000 dollars a month will keep the old Pa & Granny in a villa in the salubrious heavenly Goa or a lush Kerala. Really healthy well cared for and best of all no guilt . Doctors are cheap and world class , medicines are cheaper and USFA aproved , nurses are a plenty, household help limitless, only there are no takers. Yet.
Om, AMEN , Insha-Allah.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit200401229.html
And here's the response sent by a good friend:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Cringley's attempt to be what he is passionate about is just fine , and a wee bit amusing . Point by point , the defence :
1. India does have 50% of the worlds SEI CIMM operations, some add on PCMM and Sigma Sixes too, and Cringley would do well to contact Carnegie Mellon, Motorola etc who authored these ideas as to what they can actully do to a process. More bad news for him, the busiest phone lines in UK, the British Rail, 50% will ring in India soon . Got cousins , should ask them why here, and why not Ireland, Scotland, Philippines, Outer Mongolia or Iowa.
2. India is indeed a very poor county. A vast majority of us live below $2 per day and it really pains my heart as they are all over so unavoidable, and no faulting them . The match up with US is , GDP per capita $35,060 : $480 , a ratio of over 73: 1, needless to say who the winner has been and will still be for decades to come . And we know here that the credit for this misery goes more to our politicians than the West. US has generously provided about $3m in aid to India this year , a few hundred million to Pakistan and billions to Iraq , Afghanistan, Israel, Egypt . For years .Excluding Pakistan all have much higher living standards than India. The whole of Africa gets lesser than these most deserving aid-dope happy countries do. I think Bill gives more here than the US as a country as do many other charities.  I am not talking per capita official aid here at all , we all can divide a generous $3m or even a $ 300 m by a billion. We are definitely waiting to see the magic of miniscule fractions work for us work here.Seems like homeopathy to me . One would have to present arguments from Marx and Angels or read from the economic handbook of the Soviet State Mangers on "managed international trade the third decimal"  as he suggests be practiced with India types .Would the forum allow such extreme thought provoking arguments, just to give the right of rebuttal to some of us here . Simply put, and no ideology BS ,  India still runs a trade deficit with the world .And trade we think is about buying at the best price and not about balancing books with each supplier . Ask any corporation. The US investment money comes here on economic and not philanthropic considerations . India has received much less of US or world investments than China, though is just about one America less by way of population. Calculations say provides better ROI . The US indeed faces a problem with China.. The investment is creating a huge cheap export base money that threatens every other economy too , and money on money returns are awaited . This generosity  feeds the likes of Wal-Mart, and that I presume is the Big Bad Store is the subject of another blog here. My advise would be to not to do any thing stupid to anger the Chinese as they having taken in billions in investment do take in $250 billion in imports as well. Knowing US has no way with them , are very likely to talk back if lectured on socialism and protectionism. Believe in 2 Tits for a Tat diplomacy . Can and will hurt US investments on their soil. We ( Indians) do manage a slight trade surplus with them, but is a very recent development . As the article seems to be mostly in the "emotionally logical" genere, Mr. Cringley calmly forgets that the tech Indian worker in US come from a poor country where the education is highly subsidized at the cost of essential social services.They then leave to study further,  work, spend, pay taxes and social security most of them in US. And as most don't stay the required years the social security is not refunded, but pays for the dentures of some aging American. As some of the present hullabaloo we are told is said to be election year rhetoric, Will it be appropriate to say, as we Indians in the US are not a vote bank large enough, like the illegal Mexicans for Mr. Bush, we need not be given easier terms for work permits even where there is a desperate need , much less treated as citizenry as haven't crawled under the fences .We shall as we do continue to compete with all others for the declining but still available work visas. I am not getting into the ridiculous idea of demanding a compensation for the subsidies we $480 earners left behind here have paid to educate them and are deprived of their productive output,  as the system here has failed to keep them interested and properly utilized , if they were to stay, as a majority of us still do. Or for that matter ask for a refund from the US of the unused social security, or mention the fees the US universities earn from some of them,  Indians now being the biggest foreign student group some universities do need them to keep going . Gets too messy and is a difficult a computation as well , may even be considered a ridiculous divisionary track by an emotional, and passionate person, which I admit I am about the rights of an individual over political and nationalistic whims.
3. Mckinsey's analytical methods too have at times proven inadequate at times , but it amazes me why today US needs nurses, teachers, even PhDs specially in the mathematical and technological disciplines and Americans don't apply ? Is it that the work is a wee bit harder or the ROI on advanced education lesser ? It also amazes me that America has no cheap household help, eat out of tins or do take always. Come home to the cleaning and washing after a hard days work , and the weekend is meant for the bushy grass . I sure earn less than a fifth of what I would earn in US . But in less than $100 per month a few household workers keep my life easy. They clean, cook, wash , make bed, iron, run small errands, call the plumber, electrician, water the plants . Surely there are no Americans wanting these jobs in US either, like the nurses and PhDs , and if you had them available at market driven rates , you would have a life as good as mine. Iwould further , I don't employ child labor, pay strictly market rates , and to me is like a monthly outsourcing contract of house jobs so that I can do more of what like . I am as they say in China , am a "Capitalist Pig" looking for a better "QOL" .
4. I am no futurologist, but do remember reading some where that some time back that the knowalls thought a few computers would suffice for the whole world. The "differentiator" argument is interesting but competition and ingenuity are always at work, so one can never be sure to have found one. Have yet to hear of a lasting man made differentiator. When Mr. Cringely or any one else discovers it, or discovers a way to discover it, no need to tootle the horn and administer a lecture to the merciless economic forces of globalization or the poor attempting to get out of their misery thru plain old hard and smart work , just patent, trademark , register it, use it . The proven pudding thingy.
My own suggestion would be lets see if we can use the possibility to our mutual advantage . Let's exchange our young , educated, entrepreneurial for your rusty and the nasty. We may be able to build cheaper prisons here, and a $1000 dollars a month will keep the old Pa & Granny in a villa in the salubrious heavenly Goa or a lush Kerala. Really healthy well cared for and best of all no guilt . Doctors are cheap and world class , medicines are cheaper and USFA aproved , nurses are a plenty, household help limitless, only there are no takers. Yet.
Om, AMEN , Insha-Allah.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->