07-24-2006, 08:49 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-paulose+Jul 23 2006, 12:09 PM-->QUOTE(paulose @ Jul 23 2006, 12:09 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
I really find it astonishing in these forums that many writers can not stick to the point. In the span of 5 sentences usually at least 10 issues will be touched. That is confusing also. I was talking about just one point, rebirth in Hinduism. Conversion is not an issue here. Caste also is irrelevant here. Guna based varna or birth based catse has nothing here. Whether caste is sanctioned in Hindu scriptures also has nothing to do with rebirth.
If a person is born as a chandala, it is believed that he had commited some crimes or mistakes in his previous birth. That means he is responsible for his mistakes or SIN in a previous birth. The original sin belief in Christianity is an extrapolation of this concept. The first man commited a mistake or SIN. And part of that is passed from him to his generations. It is something like genes being transmitted into offsprings.
[right][snapback]54387[/snapback][/right]
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No, the problem is not the responses to your enquiries, but in your basic understanding of Hinduism, which seems typical of a fundamentalist Christian - you know hinduism in bits and pieces, and are trying to summarize it through your scanty, scattered knowledge. In your first enquiry, you talk about rebirths in the context of being 'born' a brahmin. I and other responders were trying to impress upon you that the quality of brahminness is nothing to with which caste group you are born into. Again, in your response above, you go back to the issue of being <i>born </i>into a chandala family as a result of crimes and mistakes in the pervious brith. Again, I repeat (is it so very hard for you to get this point - how else should I put it to make it easier for you to understand??) being born as a chandala or in a chandal family is not regarded as a sin or inferior. The idea of attaching inferior/superior label to the community you are born; whether kshatriya, vaishya, sudra, etc was a later-day social construction. Thus, being born chandala was later perceived as being inferior and thought to be as a result of oneâs bad karma. In Hinduism, each is born according to his guna or disposition; but nowhere does it state that being born into a kshatriya family, for example, is superior to being born in a vaishya family. Each have their functions and duties to perform. To attain enlightenment for even a chadala is very much possible, as the numerous accounts of individuals born in low-caste becoming renowned saints and being worshipped by people of all social groups suggest.
If responders to your enquiry specificlly talk about the caste concept, even if you donât, it is because you keep talking about being <i>born</i> into a particular family or community, as opposed to possessing certain qualities or guna. Since your idea of rebirth is based on caste-concept, this issue needs to be targeted. I suggest you get a good book on Vedanta/Upanishads or the Advaita and study those in detail, before coming here for discussions. Otherwise it is like talking to someone about advanced physics when the person has not even gone through physics 101, and has only hotchpotch understanding on the complex subject obtained some science-fiction movies.
I really find it astonishing in these forums that many writers can not stick to the point. In the span of 5 sentences usually at least 10 issues will be touched. That is confusing also. I was talking about just one point, rebirth in Hinduism. Conversion is not an issue here. Caste also is irrelevant here. Guna based varna or birth based catse has nothing here. Whether caste is sanctioned in Hindu scriptures also has nothing to do with rebirth.
If a person is born as a chandala, it is believed that he had commited some crimes or mistakes in his previous birth. That means he is responsible for his mistakes or SIN in a previous birth. The original sin belief in Christianity is an extrapolation of this concept. The first man commited a mistake or SIN. And part of that is passed from him to his generations. It is something like genes being transmitted into offsprings.
[right][snapback]54387[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, the problem is not the responses to your enquiries, but in your basic understanding of Hinduism, which seems typical of a fundamentalist Christian - you know hinduism in bits and pieces, and are trying to summarize it through your scanty, scattered knowledge. In your first enquiry, you talk about rebirths in the context of being 'born' a brahmin. I and other responders were trying to impress upon you that the quality of brahminness is nothing to with which caste group you are born into. Again, in your response above, you go back to the issue of being <i>born </i>into a chandala family as a result of crimes and mistakes in the pervious brith. Again, I repeat (is it so very hard for you to get this point - how else should I put it to make it easier for you to understand??) being born as a chandala or in a chandal family is not regarded as a sin or inferior. The idea of attaching inferior/superior label to the community you are born; whether kshatriya, vaishya, sudra, etc was a later-day social construction. Thus, being born chandala was later perceived as being inferior and thought to be as a result of oneâs bad karma. In Hinduism, each is born according to his guna or disposition; but nowhere does it state that being born into a kshatriya family, for example, is superior to being born in a vaishya family. Each have their functions and duties to perform. To attain enlightenment for even a chadala is very much possible, as the numerous accounts of individuals born in low-caste becoming renowned saints and being worshipped by people of all social groups suggest.
If responders to your enquiry specificlly talk about the caste concept, even if you donât, it is because you keep talking about being <i>born</i> into a particular family or community, as opposed to possessing certain qualities or guna. Since your idea of rebirth is based on caste-concept, this issue needs to be targeted. I suggest you get a good book on Vedanta/Upanishads or the Advaita and study those in detail, before coming here for discussions. Otherwise it is like talking to someone about advanced physics when the person has not even gone through physics 101, and has only hotchpotch understanding on the complex subject obtained some science-fiction movies.