07-31-2006, 06:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->So, all those non-missionary NGOs that are working in fields llike education, tsunami relief, Sardar Sarovar dam protests, the Chipko movement to save the trees, etc., are all working to convert people to their religion?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They may, they may not. That matters little.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The problem with your argument is: you have accepted conversion as a legitimate objective to spending money.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not necessarily. I've accepted the "DESIRE FOR REWARD" as a legitimate desire on the part of any human being. Conversion simply fits into this whole scheme, that's all.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->When most organizations have aims, those aims are directly related to their work. For eg., the aim of tsunami relief is to save people from starvation in a post-tsunami situation. In contrast, the aim of a missionary organization in tsunami relief is indirect: to seek conversion using the disaster as a tool to subvert a suffering people's religious beliefs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That may be, but you cannot expect everyone to have the same motive, same objective. People are different from each other. You may give charity hoping to accrue some punya, whereas another person may do the exact same thing as karma yoga, meaning without expectations. Whilst still others may do nothing at all. Who are we to play judge, jury, and executioner? the whole thing is rather subjective, there's no right and wrong.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In fact, going by your argument, the missionary organziations can actually make a case that all convent-educated Hindus are actually obligated to convert to Christianity! After all, if the objective is legitimate and the the missionaries have spent money to give the Hindus an education, you could make the argument that the Hindus should be appropriately grateful, and convert.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course not, this also is subjective. So there's no definitive answer. Put simply, just as you cannot force people NOT to have motives, you cannot force people to show gratitude.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, if the objective of conversion is legitimate, then why aren't the missionaries upfriont about the motivation at the point of giving relief, that is, to the person they seek to convert?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In business, don't we often give freebies first to attract customers, and then provide another product or service, the ones which we really intend to sell? This method is indispensable in a competitive world, or your business is doomed. You don't try to be honest and tell your customers: look, we are giving away worthless freebies, so that you'll be fooled into buying our product. We take this for granted, every business in the world does this. It is impossible to survive without it. And we never ask awkward questions such as 'why can't we be upfront about the whole matter' and so forth.
So just think of what missionaries do as business. They're promoting a certain product/service, and they need to attract people by giving freebies, in this case, education, food etc. Everything in life is a business opportunity, so it's asking too much to work without expecting rewards, or without telling some lies every now and then. Such is life. This is not a perfect world. The problem stems from our expectations that every person must be saintly. It doesn't work that way. It's not always about right versus wrong, it's profit vs loss for most people.
They may, they may not. That matters little.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The problem with your argument is: you have accepted conversion as a legitimate objective to spending money.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not necessarily. I've accepted the "DESIRE FOR REWARD" as a legitimate desire on the part of any human being. Conversion simply fits into this whole scheme, that's all.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->When most organizations have aims, those aims are directly related to their work. For eg., the aim of tsunami relief is to save people from starvation in a post-tsunami situation. In contrast, the aim of a missionary organization in tsunami relief is indirect: to seek conversion using the disaster as a tool to subvert a suffering people's religious beliefs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That may be, but you cannot expect everyone to have the same motive, same objective. People are different from each other. You may give charity hoping to accrue some punya, whereas another person may do the exact same thing as karma yoga, meaning without expectations. Whilst still others may do nothing at all. Who are we to play judge, jury, and executioner? the whole thing is rather subjective, there's no right and wrong.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In fact, going by your argument, the missionary organziations can actually make a case that all convent-educated Hindus are actually obligated to convert to Christianity! After all, if the objective is legitimate and the the missionaries have spent money to give the Hindus an education, you could make the argument that the Hindus should be appropriately grateful, and convert.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course not, this also is subjective. So there's no definitive answer. Put simply, just as you cannot force people NOT to have motives, you cannot force people to show gratitude.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, if the objective of conversion is legitimate, then why aren't the missionaries upfriont about the motivation at the point of giving relief, that is, to the person they seek to convert?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In business, don't we often give freebies first to attract customers, and then provide another product or service, the ones which we really intend to sell? This method is indispensable in a competitive world, or your business is doomed. You don't try to be honest and tell your customers: look, we are giving away worthless freebies, so that you'll be fooled into buying our product. We take this for granted, every business in the world does this. It is impossible to survive without it. And we never ask awkward questions such as 'why can't we be upfront about the whole matter' and so forth.
So just think of what missionaries do as business. They're promoting a certain product/service, and they need to attract people by giving freebies, in this case, education, food etc. Everything in life is a business opportunity, so it's asking too much to work without expecting rewards, or without telling some lies every now and then. Such is life. This is not a perfect world. The problem stems from our expectations that every person must be saintly. It doesn't work that way. It's not always about right versus wrong, it's profit vs loss for most people.