07-31-2006, 08:33 PM
Deepak:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->deepak: So how can we expect missionaries to work, work and work, and not have any motive? Aren't we asking too much?
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Mudy: So they are selfish. They are cheating people, i call them street crooks.
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Deepak: I am not so sure. We all do that, one way or the other. We go to office, not for the joy of working but to earn. So we also have motives, it's human nature.
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When one ignores thousands of sexually abused children on one's own shore (Boston archideosces anyone?) and go on mission to 'rescue' others around the world, shouldn't we question their motives and their human nature?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->So, all those non-missionary NGOs that are working in fields llike education, tsunami relief, Sardar Sarovar dam protests, the Chipko movement to save the trees, etc., are all working to convert people to their religion?
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deepak: They may, they may not. That matters little.
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Why not? Let missionaries say that their cause is socio-political issues and be honest about their agenda. Doesn't Christ and or Bible tell them to speak the truth? You surely can't be preaching the word of lord where the foundation is based on a lie.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->When most organizations have aims, those aims are directly related to their work. For eg., the aim of tsunami relief is to save people from starvation in a post-tsunami situation. In contrast, the aim of a missionary organization in tsunami relief is indirect: to seek conversion using the disaster as a tool to subvert a suffering people's religious beliefs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
deepak: That may be, but you cannot expect everyone to have the same motive, same objective. People are different from each other. You may give charity hoping to accrue some punya, whereas another person may do the exact same thing as karma yoga, meaning without expectations. Whilst still others may do nothing at all. Who are we to play judge, jury, and executioner? the whole thing is rather subjective, there's no right and wrong.
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Let's get this straight. Every missionary orgranisation gets it's fund from goverment and other charitable organizations or NGOs. Donors or taxpayers don't want missionary to play god here. During Tsumani and countless other calamaties the way these missionaries operated was that they clearly discriminated against those weren't willing to convert. I'm 100% sure even Christ didn't indulge against such blatant discriminations against needy persons.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->deepak: In business, don't we often give freebies first to attract customers, and then provide another product or service, the ones which we really intend to sell? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for highlighting this. This is exactly what this thread seeks to shine the light upon. Missionary organizations are indeed business organizations whose sole purpose is to increase the count and alter demographic maps of nations.
Yes, you are allowed to give freebies. So do dealers who will offer freebies till the prey is addicted, after which the drug lord will surely fleece him. This has been documented in the writings of Mahatama Gandhi himself and this was over a hundred years ago, situation has gotten only worse since. Please read previous posts and historial evidence and govt published reports before stating some anecdotal evidence you have.
Also, if you are offereing "freebies" of your religion, have some respect and dignity towards other religions. To state in business parlance, if you enter Coke factory/business establishment with Pepsi in hand, you'll for sure be kicked out. Try parking an non-Chrysler vehicle in Chrysler's employee parking and pardon the pun, you won't have a prayer. Similarly when you tried this missionary food for Christian Tsumani victims only in Indonesia and Malaysia, you certainly can't complain the way they treated this racists fleecing on hungry, needy and shelterless.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Made us poor, now they want to remove our poverty.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
deepak: It may be hypocritical, but they'll argue that all's fair in love and war. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So we need to ask these missionaries, are they spreading the love? Or the war? You might be a bit naieve. Or you might believe rest here are naieve.
But to most their agenda is pretty clear.
To summarize, if missionaries are engaged in fraud should they be given a free pass just because they are carrying a book of God in their hand or treated like any other criminal? If they are abusive towards others religious beliefs, should they be treated with respect? If they are engaged in political activites shouldn't they deserve any more or less contempt that's reserved for a politicians? If they run a business enterprise should they be treated any differently than any other business enterprise? If they discriminate against hungry and needy (especially during the times of need) do they deserve our compassion or our charity $?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->deepak: So how can we expect missionaries to work, work and work, and not have any motive? Aren't we asking too much?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mudy: So they are selfish. They are cheating people, i call them street crooks.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Deepak: I am not so sure. We all do that, one way or the other. We go to office, not for the joy of working but to earn. So we also have motives, it's human nature.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When one ignores thousands of sexually abused children on one's own shore (Boston archideosces anyone?) and go on mission to 'rescue' others around the world, shouldn't we question their motives and their human nature?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->So, all those non-missionary NGOs that are working in fields llike education, tsunami relief, Sardar Sarovar dam protests, the Chipko movement to save the trees, etc., are all working to convert people to their religion?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
deepak: They may, they may not. That matters little.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not? Let missionaries say that their cause is socio-political issues and be honest about their agenda. Doesn't Christ and or Bible tell them to speak the truth? You surely can't be preaching the word of lord where the foundation is based on a lie.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->When most organizations have aims, those aims are directly related to their work. For eg., the aim of tsunami relief is to save people from starvation in a post-tsunami situation. In contrast, the aim of a missionary organization in tsunami relief is indirect: to seek conversion using the disaster as a tool to subvert a suffering people's religious beliefs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
deepak: That may be, but you cannot expect everyone to have the same motive, same objective. People are different from each other. You may give charity hoping to accrue some punya, whereas another person may do the exact same thing as karma yoga, meaning without expectations. Whilst still others may do nothing at all. Who are we to play judge, jury, and executioner? the whole thing is rather subjective, there's no right and wrong.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's get this straight. Every missionary orgranisation gets it's fund from goverment and other charitable organizations or NGOs. Donors or taxpayers don't want missionary to play god here. During Tsumani and countless other calamaties the way these missionaries operated was that they clearly discriminated against those weren't willing to convert. I'm 100% sure even Christ didn't indulge against such blatant discriminations against needy persons.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->deepak: In business, don't we often give freebies first to attract customers, and then provide another product or service, the ones which we really intend to sell? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for highlighting this. This is exactly what this thread seeks to shine the light upon. Missionary organizations are indeed business organizations whose sole purpose is to increase the count and alter demographic maps of nations.
Yes, you are allowed to give freebies. So do dealers who will offer freebies till the prey is addicted, after which the drug lord will surely fleece him. This has been documented in the writings of Mahatama Gandhi himself and this was over a hundred years ago, situation has gotten only worse since. Please read previous posts and historial evidence and govt published reports before stating some anecdotal evidence you have.
Also, if you are offereing "freebies" of your religion, have some respect and dignity towards other religions. To state in business parlance, if you enter Coke factory/business establishment with Pepsi in hand, you'll for sure be kicked out. Try parking an non-Chrysler vehicle in Chrysler's employee parking and pardon the pun, you won't have a prayer. Similarly when you tried this missionary food for Christian Tsumani victims only in Indonesia and Malaysia, you certainly can't complain the way they treated this racists fleecing on hungry, needy and shelterless.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Made us poor, now they want to remove our poverty.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
deepak: It may be hypocritical, but they'll argue that all's fair in love and war. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So we need to ask these missionaries, are they spreading the love? Or the war? You might be a bit naieve. Or you might believe rest here are naieve.
But to most their agenda is pretty clear.
To summarize, if missionaries are engaged in fraud should they be given a free pass just because they are carrying a book of God in their hand or treated like any other criminal? If they are abusive towards others religious beliefs, should they be treated with respect? If they are engaged in political activites shouldn't they deserve any more or less contempt that's reserved for a politicians? If they run a business enterprise should they be treated any differently than any other business enterprise? If they discriminate against hungry and needy (especially during the times of need) do they deserve our compassion or our charity $?