<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Aug 10 2006, 04:25 AM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Aug 10 2006, 04:25 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Historical & Contemporary Race Systems
[right][snapback]55335[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yes, the many imagined race systems for India are numerous indeed - and all inconsistent with one another, as one might expect from unscientific nonsense.
<b>Here's the real ethnic system for the Islands making up the UK and Ireland:</b>
- Picts: these non-Indo-European Europeans who lived in Europe before the 'IE' people came along, were found in western-Europe and the British Isles. The Romans and Gauls chased the ones in France out to the British Isles. The Celts in the UK and Ireland did not want any indigenous Picts or immigrant continental Picts either. The Vikings later came and chased the Picts too. It's been suggested that Picts were the first Europeans to enter the Americas: the Vikings had chased them all the way to the new continent.
- Celts came to settle in Ireland. They divided themselves into the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Man (Isle of Man) and Bretons (from whom comes the name Brittany or Britain). The Bretons speak a Celtic dialect that is close to the one of the Celts of Bretagne in France.
- Then in the 5th or 6th centuries, Germanic Saxons and Angles came raiding from neighbouring Germany and Netherlands and eventually decided to settle in Britain. The Celts had to recede a bit. Creation of Wessex (west Saxony), Essex (E Saxony), Sussex (S Saxony). Angles have left their name in Angleland (England).
- The Romans, too, arrived in Britain at this time.
- Then the Danes came prior to and during the Viking Invasions era around the turn of the millenium. Many Danish names still exist in Britain and even Scotland: for example, today's Robertson shows that the originals were Danes (or Norse, see Vikings below).
- The Vikings invaded several times. Some settled and started their own communities. More names ending on -son.
- The Christo Normans (formerly Vikings from Norway who'd settled in Normandy) then invaded Christianised Britain and oppressed the Christo Saxons in their turn. Richard the Lionheart could not speak a word of English, but was the King of England - though he was mostly so <i>in absentia</i>. Surnames like 'Purefoy' today are purely Norman names.
- Somewhere along the line Ireland, Wales and even Scotland were invaded by Spanyards: the resultant communities are called the Black Celts or Black Irish, etc. People who imagine all Irish to be red heads posit that Colin Farrell and Catherine Zeta Jones belong to such Spanish-Irish communities.
- There were several immigrations and invasions of actual French, the last one during the time of the French revolution and its purges of France's aristocracy. A few of the noblesse managed to migrate to England.
So what do we have? Even if we allow that the Picts probably died out, we can still recognise numerous 'races' in the Isles - or, at the least, ethnicities:
- Various Celts (Irish, Welsh, Scottish, Mansh, Cornish, Bretons)
- Various Germanic communities (Angles, Saxons)
- Various Norse communities (Vikings, Danes, and Normans)
- Roman (probably mostly mixed in with other communities now)
- Gaulish (French)
- Spanish (probably mostly mixed in with Celtic communities now)
- And sometimes even combinations of the above, though many ethnic communities in England are still not mixed. There are entire villages with Danish or Viking names and the same is true for the names of the people who live there. It's only in recent centuries that significant numbers of people in England and Ireland have started moving out of their villages.
Note that the invasions and resultant ethnicities in the British Isles are far more recent than any imagined Dravidian/Aryan invasions of India. (Even the Picts were last sent packing out of the Isles only in Viking times.) So if any countries should break up on account of having too many disparate ethnicities - based on <i>historic</i> invasions and oppression and the resultant animosity generated from that - then the British Isles have to be first.
<b>The invention of 'Indo-European' is a godsend for Europe and especially Britain:</b> until then, all the ethnic groups there were really regarded as wholly disparate entities and could not get along. The Vikings attacked the Saxons who had attacked the various Celts before, the Saxons retaliated on the Danes, the Normans invaded and oppressed the Saxons, the Saxons oppressed the Celts and after allowing the Scots into the clique still oppressed the Irish and Welsh.
Much hatred and resentment between all these groups existed for long periods of time - until but a few centuries back (the Celts still have understandable fear and dislike of the English).
Until recent decades, English was compulsory in Irish and Welsh schools. Children would be beaten by their teachers for speaking in their respective Gaelic tongues. The English tried to exterminate the Gaelic languages (like they have tried to do with Samskritam) because it was a sign of independent Celtic identity and because the <i>English regarded Gaelic as a primitive language</i> - this was before the invention of IE. Welsh and even Scottish people regularly state they are not British and not English at all, but were oppressed by the English. They see Wales and Scotland as separate nations. (Tip: never ask English-speaking lecturers whether they are English or even British - nothing hurts the Welsh and Scots as much.)
Today, Britain hopes the IE identity will push the historic evils they perpetrated against the Celts to the background and through IE it wishes to unite a geographic region that had never ever been united before.
[right][snapback]55335[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yes, the many imagined race systems for India are numerous indeed - and all inconsistent with one another, as one might expect from unscientific nonsense.
<b>Here's the real ethnic system for the Islands making up the UK and Ireland:</b>
- Picts: these non-Indo-European Europeans who lived in Europe before the 'IE' people came along, were found in western-Europe and the British Isles. The Romans and Gauls chased the ones in France out to the British Isles. The Celts in the UK and Ireland did not want any indigenous Picts or immigrant continental Picts either. The Vikings later came and chased the Picts too. It's been suggested that Picts were the first Europeans to enter the Americas: the Vikings had chased them all the way to the new continent.
- Celts came to settle in Ireland. They divided themselves into the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Man (Isle of Man) and Bretons (from whom comes the name Brittany or Britain). The Bretons speak a Celtic dialect that is close to the one of the Celts of Bretagne in France.
- Then in the 5th or 6th centuries, Germanic Saxons and Angles came raiding from neighbouring Germany and Netherlands and eventually decided to settle in Britain. The Celts had to recede a bit. Creation of Wessex (west Saxony), Essex (E Saxony), Sussex (S Saxony). Angles have left their name in Angleland (England).
- The Romans, too, arrived in Britain at this time.
- Then the Danes came prior to and during the Viking Invasions era around the turn of the millenium. Many Danish names still exist in Britain and even Scotland: for example, today's Robertson shows that the originals were Danes (or Norse, see Vikings below).
- The Vikings invaded several times. Some settled and started their own communities. More names ending on -son.
- The Christo Normans (formerly Vikings from Norway who'd settled in Normandy) then invaded Christianised Britain and oppressed the Christo Saxons in their turn. Richard the Lionheart could not speak a word of English, but was the King of England - though he was mostly so <i>in absentia</i>. Surnames like 'Purefoy' today are purely Norman names.
- Somewhere along the line Ireland, Wales and even Scotland were invaded by Spanyards: the resultant communities are called the Black Celts or Black Irish, etc. People who imagine all Irish to be red heads posit that Colin Farrell and Catherine Zeta Jones belong to such Spanish-Irish communities.
- There were several immigrations and invasions of actual French, the last one during the time of the French revolution and its purges of France's aristocracy. A few of the noblesse managed to migrate to England.
So what do we have? Even if we allow that the Picts probably died out, we can still recognise numerous 'races' in the Isles - or, at the least, ethnicities:
- Various Celts (Irish, Welsh, Scottish, Mansh, Cornish, Bretons)
- Various Germanic communities (Angles, Saxons)
- Various Norse communities (Vikings, Danes, and Normans)
- Roman (probably mostly mixed in with other communities now)
- Gaulish (French)
- Spanish (probably mostly mixed in with Celtic communities now)
- And sometimes even combinations of the above, though many ethnic communities in England are still not mixed. There are entire villages with Danish or Viking names and the same is true for the names of the people who live there. It's only in recent centuries that significant numbers of people in England and Ireland have started moving out of their villages.
Note that the invasions and resultant ethnicities in the British Isles are far more recent than any imagined Dravidian/Aryan invasions of India. (Even the Picts were last sent packing out of the Isles only in Viking times.) So if any countries should break up on account of having too many disparate ethnicities - based on <i>historic</i> invasions and oppression and the resultant animosity generated from that - then the British Isles have to be first.
<b>The invention of 'Indo-European' is a godsend for Europe and especially Britain:</b> until then, all the ethnic groups there were really regarded as wholly disparate entities and could not get along. The Vikings attacked the Saxons who had attacked the various Celts before, the Saxons retaliated on the Danes, the Normans invaded and oppressed the Saxons, the Saxons oppressed the Celts and after allowing the Scots into the clique still oppressed the Irish and Welsh.
Much hatred and resentment between all these groups existed for long periods of time - until but a few centuries back (the Celts still have understandable fear and dislike of the English).
Until recent decades, English was compulsory in Irish and Welsh schools. Children would be beaten by their teachers for speaking in their respective Gaelic tongues. The English tried to exterminate the Gaelic languages (like they have tried to do with Samskritam) because it was a sign of independent Celtic identity and because the <i>English regarded Gaelic as a primitive language</i> - this was before the invention of IE. Welsh and even Scottish people regularly state they are not British and not English at all, but were oppressed by the English. They see Wales and Scotland as separate nations. (Tip: never ask English-speaking lecturers whether they are English or even British - nothing hurts the Welsh and Scots as much.)
Today, Britain hopes the IE identity will push the historic evils they perpetrated against the Celts to the background and through IE it wishes to unite a geographic region that had never ever been united before.