09-30-2003, 08:56 PM
I would also like to add my 2 cents about red lines -
1. No disrespect towards fellow member - disagree without being disagreable
2. No bad mouthing of any country, religion, e.g. I don't like BanglaDesh being called beggedesh or anything like that. The only exception IMHO should be TSP.
Generally I agree. I have always treated individuals with respect regardless of where they are from , or regardless of their religion.
As far as religion is concerned it is a legitimate question to ask whether Islam condones violence and jihadi actions against innocent women and children.We are not talking about communal riots which erupt for the most part spontaneously, but a holy Book condoning such actions. It should be legitimate to say that such behavior is neither acceptable nor civilized and that in fact it is barbarism, and is especially egregious when condoned by a holy book. If you think this is academic, remember that Mush has been constantly maintaining that freedom fighters have a right to do whatever is necessary including such killings. In Agra he brushed aside suggestions that it was horrible that innocents were being killed by the jihadi terrorists ( a term he does not accept) saying such things happen in war. If a head of state accepts such a belief why should we invoke and blame Graduates of madrassahs who are only obeying orders from above. There are other dubious beliefs in Islam amongst which is the belief that no Muslim should willingly live amongst a land of Kafirs (Dar ul Harb). This is the germ of the so called two nation theory. So, the culprit is the software that is being programmed in the BIOS. It is the software that has to change otherwise the behavior in the name of the holy book will continue.
Another point. Hindus are brought up to believe in 'sarvadharma samabhava',that all religions are blessed and are therefore good and it is only certain misled individuals who disobey the precepts of their religion.It is difficult for them to accept that there sometime lurks evil in religions (even the Dharma is not exempt from this). The simple fact of the matter is that Islam was designed for a nomadic desert people in the 7th century and its values are not timeless. All religions accept reform as a necessity, but such reform is blocked in Islam, because the Prophet has declared that it is perfect and cannot be subject to questioning not now not ever. It is therefore legitimate for Hindus to question such dubious and barbaric behavior such as jihadi terrorism. We must have courage to say the emperor has no clothes, when indeed we dont see any, instead of saying one must be a wise man to see the clothes. Appeasement (e.g.the Hajj pilgrimage,different laws for different religions) is the response of the slave who has been in bondage for a 1000 years. Such behavior is now known as the Stockholm syndrome, where the victim identifies himself with the torturer or terrorist (e.g.calling him a militant). One must boldly speak up to the Muslims and ask them to take responsibility for their actions instead of constantly blaming others for theiir condition, which is in general better than that of HIndus, the average per capita income of the Muslim in the world is much higher that of the HIndu in India.
But i agree that we should not stoop to demeaning characterizations of any religion including Islam and as far as i recall i have never done so.
Kaushal
1. No disrespect towards fellow member - disagree without being disagreable
2. No bad mouthing of any country, religion, e.g. I don't like BanglaDesh being called beggedesh or anything like that. The only exception IMHO should be TSP.
Generally I agree. I have always treated individuals with respect regardless of where they are from , or regardless of their religion.
As far as religion is concerned it is a legitimate question to ask whether Islam condones violence and jihadi actions against innocent women and children.We are not talking about communal riots which erupt for the most part spontaneously, but a holy Book condoning such actions. It should be legitimate to say that such behavior is neither acceptable nor civilized and that in fact it is barbarism, and is especially egregious when condoned by a holy book. If you think this is academic, remember that Mush has been constantly maintaining that freedom fighters have a right to do whatever is necessary including such killings. In Agra he brushed aside suggestions that it was horrible that innocents were being killed by the jihadi terrorists ( a term he does not accept) saying such things happen in war. If a head of state accepts such a belief why should we invoke and blame Graduates of madrassahs who are only obeying orders from above. There are other dubious beliefs in Islam amongst which is the belief that no Muslim should willingly live amongst a land of Kafirs (Dar ul Harb). This is the germ of the so called two nation theory. So, the culprit is the software that is being programmed in the BIOS. It is the software that has to change otherwise the behavior in the name of the holy book will continue.
Another point. Hindus are brought up to believe in 'sarvadharma samabhava',that all religions are blessed and are therefore good and it is only certain misled individuals who disobey the precepts of their religion.It is difficult for them to accept that there sometime lurks evil in religions (even the Dharma is not exempt from this). The simple fact of the matter is that Islam was designed for a nomadic desert people in the 7th century and its values are not timeless. All religions accept reform as a necessity, but such reform is blocked in Islam, because the Prophet has declared that it is perfect and cannot be subject to questioning not now not ever. It is therefore legitimate for Hindus to question such dubious and barbaric behavior such as jihadi terrorism. We must have courage to say the emperor has no clothes, when indeed we dont see any, instead of saying one must be a wise man to see the clothes. Appeasement (e.g.the Hajj pilgrimage,different laws for different religions) is the response of the slave who has been in bondage for a 1000 years. Such behavior is now known as the Stockholm syndrome, where the victim identifies himself with the torturer or terrorist (e.g.calling him a militant). One must boldly speak up to the Muslims and ask them to take responsibility for their actions instead of constantly blaming others for theiir condition, which is in general better than that of HIndus, the average per capita income of the Muslim in the world is much higher that of the HIndu in India.
But i agree that we should not stoop to demeaning characterizations of any religion including Islam and as far as i recall i have never done so.
Kaushal