12-02-2006, 10:07 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-digvijay+Nov 30 2006, 08:08 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(digvijay @ Nov 30 2006, 08:08 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Acharya,
 Above clearly shows there was coherence amongst our kings and they had a common grudge against the muslims. It is not merely a stmnt as this is how exactly it happened. A foreign invader was considered some one to be defeated. Everyone is fighting the same muslims to defeat them and they did it quite well on account of which we still have majority Hindu India. So how is a central political front lacking here?
-Digvijay
[right][snapback]61597[/snapback][/right]
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I agree with that information. They were fighitng to defeat the foriegn invaders in medieval times at every region and place. They defeated the muslim enemy and recovered the kingdoms. But they did not destroy the political center of the Muslim invaders.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Acharya,
The key is that it is historically false to assume that Delhi was some sought of a capital of India. It was just another location with a king.
Did you also get a chance to read Herman Kulke's comment? Khilji was supposedly the "second alexander" yet khilji records that his order was barely followed at a distance of 100 KM from Delhi. Beyond that limit he had to use millitary force to get his point across.
http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Rajputs_a...asions_of_India
So it is really a myth that uptil the demise of sultanate kings i.e till 16th century that Delhi was anything major.
With the advent of Akbar yes Delhi did assume a significant place but that was largely because of a mistake that rajputs comitted by marrying there daughter to Akbar. But this importance of Delhi lasted for slightly more then a century. Even in the last 30 years of Aurangzeb's rule Delhi had lost its supremacy. There were major rebellions in rajasthan and Marathas were tearing up the mughals. Sikhs were emerging as a powerful force in northwest.
So this "centery of gravity" argument hinges on somekind of an all power Islamic capital rooted at Delhi.
<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Â
What I am saying is that there is a center of gravity of political center. That center has to be destroyed to defeat the political power. For Muslim invaders the center of gravity is in the core muslim army. The political and military power center resides in the same group in the Muslim society.
To defeat the outside power Hindu monarchy/power had to kill all Muslims in the political center in medieval times. It means killing all the family members of the Muslim elite and killing all the foreign muslims in the land during that period. Between 900-1300 AD Hindu kings could have killed all the foreign Muslims in the land.
This was not done.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to realise this was a replenishable source which kept filling up from west of Indian borders. No matter how many Hindus accounted for more would come from central asia/Iran/Iraq/Africa/Arabia/Afghanistan etc.
To gain a complete victory we had to go on an offensive in these lands.
<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
For this to be done Hindu political center during 1000AD should have coordinated in all the regions to destroy all traces of foreign invasion including their palaces.Convert all the muslims back to Hindus and make sure that Hindu political power remain strong and never fragments.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a slight problem. What do you do with the converted? Ordinary Hindus would not intermarry with the converted beef eaters.
<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->In 1857 The British killed the members of Bahadur Shah Mughal heir and banished him to Burma so that there is no trace of the Mughal empire in India. There is a reason for this.
[right][snapback]61616[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mughals were irrelevant in 1857.
-Digvijay
Acharya,
 Above clearly shows there was coherence amongst our kings and they had a common grudge against the muslims. It is not merely a stmnt as this is how exactly it happened. A foreign invader was considered some one to be defeated. Everyone is fighting the same muslims to defeat them and they did it quite well on account of which we still have majority Hindu India. So how is a central political front lacking here?
-Digvijay
[right][snapback]61597[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with that information. They were fighitng to defeat the foriegn invaders in medieval times at every region and place. They defeated the muslim enemy and recovered the kingdoms. But they did not destroy the political center of the Muslim invaders.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Acharya,
The key is that it is historically false to assume that Delhi was some sought of a capital of India. It was just another location with a king.
Did you also get a chance to read Herman Kulke's comment? Khilji was supposedly the "second alexander" yet khilji records that his order was barely followed at a distance of 100 KM from Delhi. Beyond that limit he had to use millitary force to get his point across.
http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Rajputs_a...asions_of_India
So it is really a myth that uptil the demise of sultanate kings i.e till 16th century that Delhi was anything major.
With the advent of Akbar yes Delhi did assume a significant place but that was largely because of a mistake that rajputs comitted by marrying there daughter to Akbar. But this importance of Delhi lasted for slightly more then a century. Even in the last 30 years of Aurangzeb's rule Delhi had lost its supremacy. There were major rebellions in rajasthan and Marathas were tearing up the mughals. Sikhs were emerging as a powerful force in northwest.
So this "centery of gravity" argument hinges on somekind of an all power Islamic capital rooted at Delhi.
<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Â
What I am saying is that there is a center of gravity of political center. That center has to be destroyed to defeat the political power. For Muslim invaders the center of gravity is in the core muslim army. The political and military power center resides in the same group in the Muslim society.
To defeat the outside power Hindu monarchy/power had to kill all Muslims in the political center in medieval times. It means killing all the family members of the Muslim elite and killing all the foreign muslims in the land during that period. Between 900-1300 AD Hindu kings could have killed all the foreign Muslims in the land.
This was not done.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to realise this was a replenishable source which kept filling up from west of Indian borders. No matter how many Hindus accounted for more would come from central asia/Iran/Iraq/Africa/Arabia/Afghanistan etc.
To gain a complete victory we had to go on an offensive in these lands.
<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
For this to be done Hindu political center during 1000AD should have coordinated in all the regions to destroy all traces of foreign invasion including their palaces.Convert all the muslims back to Hindus and make sure that Hindu political power remain strong and never fragments.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a slight problem. What do you do with the converted? Ordinary Hindus would not intermarry with the converted beef eaters.
<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Dec 1 2006, 11:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->In 1857 The British killed the members of Bahadur Shah Mughal heir and banished him to Burma so that there is no trace of the Mughal empire in India. There is a reason for this.
[right][snapback]61616[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mughals were irrelevant in 1857.
-Digvijay