Concerning the article pasted in post 81 of the Islamism thread 'The Study of Political Islam'
I'm all for the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Would that they could make sensible arguments, though! In trying to lay bare the problems of Islam, trying to use christianity as a counter-example is a very bad plan. It can only backfire.
Blue statements below are excerpted from the said article. There are too many statements to pick out, but some of them include:
How many Christians can tell you how Turkey or Egypt became Islamic?
Then why not also ask how many of the same christians are willing to tell of how Turkey (Anatolia which became part of christo Byzantine Empire) and Egypt became Christian?
Coptic christians were mobbing vandals ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A1.htm ), as described by their contemporaries the pagan Greco-Romans and Egyptians.
Letâs examine the ethical basis of our (western?) civilization. All of our politics and ethics are based upon a unitary ethic that is best formulated in the Golden Rule: Treat others as you would be treated.
Yeah, the Chinese philosopher Confucius (500 BCE?) is the basis of western civilisation then. There is no doubt that "Do unto others...." in the NT derives from pre-christian sources:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Golden Rule has been ascribed to Christ. Was he its author?
Five hundred years before the time of Christ, Confucius taught
"What you do not like when done to yourself do not to others."
Centuries before the Christian era Pittacus, Thales, Sextus, Isocrates and Aristotle taught the same.
-- The Christ, John E. Remsberg<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/B1a.htm )
And as far as it is true that islamics don't follow the principle Confucius laid down, it is equally true that christians do not either: else why do they get separate treatment? Why can they genocide entire populations to convert them to the christoterror, whilst the victimised cultures are not even allowed to protest without being accused of 'persecuting christians'.
Islam denies the truth of the Golden Rule.
Just like christianity has always done as well ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A1.htm ).
What accounts for the almost psychotic aversion to knowledge about Islam? Beyond fear is the realization that political Islam is profoundly foreign to us.
No. <b>In reality, it is the fear of or inability to properly identify the fundamental problems and intolerance in Islam, and realising that these are equally present in christianity.</b> That is why the christian answeringislam sites are all really very bad in tackling islam at a logical and well-reasoned level. They never point out the real problems because these are shared by both religions.
Instead, some of their arguments descend to comedy, like how 'Allah isn't the same as biblical gawd Jehovah (as is claimed), because Allah is the pagan moon God of Arabia'. Such statements keep the score level (christians: 0 - muslims: 0).
There have been other dualistic cultures. The KKK comes to mind. But the KKK is a simplistic dualism. The KKK member hates all black people at all times; there is only one choice. This is very straightforward and easy to see.
Bad cover-up. KKK is a devoutly christian denominational sect. It is a subsect of the Southern Baptist Church. It is in no way a separate dualistic culture. Not long ago, the whole Southern Baptist Church held to the same anti-African beliefs as the KKK does today.
The largest part of the Trilogy relates to treatment of the unbelievers, kafirs. Even Hell is political. There are 146 references to Hell in the Koran.
Somewhere on either secularweb, internet infidels or some other atheist site, they did a statistical break-down of the babble. The proportion of gawd being, doing or commanding evil was far greater than him and jesus saying or doing positive things. NT threatens with damnation every turn, while the OT has a lot to say about how gawd 'smote' or otherwise genocided creatures.
Only 6% of those in Hell are there for moral failingsâmurder, theft, etc. The other 94% of the reasons for being in Hell are for the intellectual sin of disagreeing with Mohammed, a political crime. Hence, Islamic Hell is a political prison for those who speak against Islam.
Christian hell is as political as islamic jekinnah/jahannam. All those who do not accept jeebus go to hell. Throughout christian history this has been the one promise of the church and of the keepers of christian doctrine and teaching. That's why unbaptised infants went straight to hell (a christo belief strictly adhered to from Augustine until at least 19th century), as did all 'unreached' peoples. Changes to soften this unforgiving doctrine are very recent and made by apologists, but have no basis in either the bible or christian theology.
To reiterate, all of science is based upon the law of contradiction. If two things contradict each other, then at least one of them has to be false. But inside of Islamic logic, two contradictory statements can both be true. Islam uses dualistic logic and we use unitary scientific logic.
Since Islam has a dualistic logic and dualistic ethics, it is completely foreign to us.
But it is not foreign to christians either, because christianity believes in a 'loving, merciful' gawd, though he is a genocidal gawd who threatens with eternal damnation for all those who won't accept/believe in him. So the dualistic logic is as present in christianity and is as sensible to christians as it is to islam and its followers.
Blacks donât want to face the fact that it was a Muslim who rounded up their ancestors in Africa to wholesale to the white slave trader.
And then the christians (which all the 'white slave traders' were) set up shop themselves and started catching and selling Africans.
Blacks canât accept the common bond they share with whites: that both Europeans and Africans were slaves under Islam.
Some Africans do know that islamics enslaved them. Yes, both Europeans and Africans were enslaved by islam. And it is also true that christianity for a long time enslaved Europeans too (both non-christian and christian). But like Islam, christian Europeans viewed all African peoples as potential slaves, whereas christian Europe did not view all of its own people as slaves. African *meant* slave for all intents and purposes to both christians and muslims. (And that too whether the African converted or not.)
In short, white slavery under islam overlaps with only a subset of all of the African slavery experience.
The jihad of Umar (the second caliph, a pope-king) exploded into the world of the unbelievers. Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian North Africa. [...] The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.
Author conveniently forgot to mention:
'The Christian Crusading Conquest of Constantine (first christo emperor of Rome) exploded into the world of the heathens. The Christian conquest destroyed a pagan Middle east and pagan North Africa: i.e. it destroyed the ancient Greco-Roman civilisation. The history of christianity is the destruction of paganism in all of Europe ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A1.htm ), as well as North Africa and the Middle East including Levant which were then part of the Roman Empire. Most of pagan Europe was lost, and later all of it was lost in the official Crusades against the remaining pagans of northeastern Europe ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A2c.htm#NorthernCrusades )
Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.
Before Christianity, North Africa was the pagan southern part of the pagan Roman Empire, christianity merely inherited this. Christianity killed the Greco-Roman civilisation. Countless millions of Europe were genocided in christianity's conversion drives in the continent.
(Note also that the above tries to give meaning to 'Europe': though North Africa is Arabian and Berber and the like, it would be considered part of Europe as long as it was christian. But pagan Rome never regarded northern Europe as related to it... not Roman.)
The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Greatâs army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died.
Umm, did the writer just imply that Alexander's men either genocided or intermarried with all the Iranian and Indian Afghans so that the only people left in the region during islamic invasion were descended from Greeks? Well, he's wrong. By far the most were completely Afghan, only a few had Greek ancestry.
In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad.
Yeah, and now he ought not to forget to list how many millions of African 'animists' were genocided in the long process of converting Africa to christianity. And it still continues. As does the islamic j-had against African Religion.
Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam.
And 200 million+ in the Americas alone thanks to christianity. See for instance http://freetruth.50webs.org/A4a.htm
Christians believe that âlove conquers all.â
Huh? If 'love' means christianity, then 'tis true: love (christian genocide) has conquered nearly all except islam:
Well, love does not conquer Islam.
That's right. Christian 'love' (the crusades) did not conquer islam's 'love'.
Christians have a difficult time seeing Islam as a political doctrine, not a religion.
They're having a difficult time seeing that christianity is the same as islam, and that will always be until a christian stops being a christian.
The victims deny that the abuse took place: Our media never reports the majority of jihad around the world. Our intellectuals donât talk about how all of the violence is connected to a political doctrine.
Classic case of christian converts in India too (as indeed those conditioned by christianity: the pseudo-seculars and communists). Descendants of victims (converts) under Portuguese terror deny that the christo abuse took place. Media never reports on the christoterrorism and genocide by christianity around the world ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/Overview4.htm ). Intellectuals don't talk about how all of the violence is connected to christian doctrine.
Political Islam has annihilated every culture it has invaded or immigrated to. The total time for annihilation takes centuries, but once Islam is ascendant it never fails. The host culture disappears and becomes extinct.
Either the author is the typical christian hypocrite or really ignorant of christianity. Christianity has annihilated every culture it has invaded or immigrated to (or at least tried to). The last two sentences in the quote above also apply to christianity.
India has survived islamic, christian and communist attack - but not for lack of trying by the latter three. Show me another country that survived all three. (China swallowed up by communism, Greece's Anatolia and even Persia taken over by Islam, Greece and Rome by christianity.)
We must learn the doctrine of political Islam to survive. The doctrine is very clear that all forms of force and persuasion may and must be used to conquer us. Islam is a self-declared enemy of all unbelievers. The brilliant Chinese philosopher of war, Sun Tsu, had the dictumâknow the enemy. We must know the doctrine of our enemy or be annihilated.
Right back at him: replace islam with christianity above. Christianity has declared that it will convert all of the unconverted (see their plan in Joshua Project).
Or put another way: if we do not learn the doctrine of political Islam, our civilization will be annihilated just as Egyptâs Coptic civilization was annihilated.
If we do not learn the doctrines of both islam and christianity, all natural religionists will be annihilated just as Egypt's pagan civilisation (pre-terrorist-Coptic christians) were by the christians as was the rest of the Roman Empire and Greece. Likewise, we'll be annihilated by islam just like Persia was.
<b>My point is this:</b> Christoislamism is one religion. It is the same religion. Of course its two major denominations don't agree with each other, but then the sunnis and shias don't see eye to eye either, and nor do the millions of christian sects.
But in all ways and to all other people, christoislamism is one and the same intolerant ideology.
I'm all for the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Would that they could make sensible arguments, though! In trying to lay bare the problems of Islam, trying to use christianity as a counter-example is a very bad plan. It can only backfire.
Blue statements below are excerpted from the said article. There are too many statements to pick out, but some of them include:
How many Christians can tell you how Turkey or Egypt became Islamic?
Then why not also ask how many of the same christians are willing to tell of how Turkey (Anatolia which became part of christo Byzantine Empire) and Egypt became Christian?
Coptic christians were mobbing vandals ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A1.htm ), as described by their contemporaries the pagan Greco-Romans and Egyptians.
Letâs examine the ethical basis of our (western?) civilization. All of our politics and ethics are based upon a unitary ethic that is best formulated in the Golden Rule: Treat others as you would be treated.
Yeah, the Chinese philosopher Confucius (500 BCE?) is the basis of western civilisation then. There is no doubt that "Do unto others...." in the NT derives from pre-christian sources:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Golden Rule has been ascribed to Christ. Was he its author?
Five hundred years before the time of Christ, Confucius taught
"What you do not like when done to yourself do not to others."
Centuries before the Christian era Pittacus, Thales, Sextus, Isocrates and Aristotle taught the same.
-- The Christ, John E. Remsberg<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/B1a.htm )
And as far as it is true that islamics don't follow the principle Confucius laid down, it is equally true that christians do not either: else why do they get separate treatment? Why can they genocide entire populations to convert them to the christoterror, whilst the victimised cultures are not even allowed to protest without being accused of 'persecuting christians'.
Islam denies the truth of the Golden Rule.
Just like christianity has always done as well ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A1.htm ).
What accounts for the almost psychotic aversion to knowledge about Islam? Beyond fear is the realization that political Islam is profoundly foreign to us.
No. <b>In reality, it is the fear of or inability to properly identify the fundamental problems and intolerance in Islam, and realising that these are equally present in christianity.</b> That is why the christian answeringislam sites are all really very bad in tackling islam at a logical and well-reasoned level. They never point out the real problems because these are shared by both religions.
Instead, some of their arguments descend to comedy, like how 'Allah isn't the same as biblical gawd Jehovah (as is claimed), because Allah is the pagan moon God of Arabia'. Such statements keep the score level (christians: 0 - muslims: 0).
There have been other dualistic cultures. The KKK comes to mind. But the KKK is a simplistic dualism. The KKK member hates all black people at all times; there is only one choice. This is very straightforward and easy to see.
Bad cover-up. KKK is a devoutly christian denominational sect. It is a subsect of the Southern Baptist Church. It is in no way a separate dualistic culture. Not long ago, the whole Southern Baptist Church held to the same anti-African beliefs as the KKK does today.
The largest part of the Trilogy relates to treatment of the unbelievers, kafirs. Even Hell is political. There are 146 references to Hell in the Koran.
Somewhere on either secularweb, internet infidels or some other atheist site, they did a statistical break-down of the babble. The proportion of gawd being, doing or commanding evil was far greater than him and jesus saying or doing positive things. NT threatens with damnation every turn, while the OT has a lot to say about how gawd 'smote' or otherwise genocided creatures.
Only 6% of those in Hell are there for moral failingsâmurder, theft, etc. The other 94% of the reasons for being in Hell are for the intellectual sin of disagreeing with Mohammed, a political crime. Hence, Islamic Hell is a political prison for those who speak against Islam.
Christian hell is as political as islamic jekinnah/jahannam. All those who do not accept jeebus go to hell. Throughout christian history this has been the one promise of the church and of the keepers of christian doctrine and teaching. That's why unbaptised infants went straight to hell (a christo belief strictly adhered to from Augustine until at least 19th century), as did all 'unreached' peoples. Changes to soften this unforgiving doctrine are very recent and made by apologists, but have no basis in either the bible or christian theology.
To reiterate, all of science is based upon the law of contradiction. If two things contradict each other, then at least one of them has to be false. But inside of Islamic logic, two contradictory statements can both be true. Islam uses dualistic logic and we use unitary scientific logic.
Since Islam has a dualistic logic and dualistic ethics, it is completely foreign to us.
But it is not foreign to christians either, because christianity believes in a 'loving, merciful' gawd, though he is a genocidal gawd who threatens with eternal damnation for all those who won't accept/believe in him. So the dualistic logic is as present in christianity and is as sensible to christians as it is to islam and its followers.
Blacks donât want to face the fact that it was a Muslim who rounded up their ancestors in Africa to wholesale to the white slave trader.
And then the christians (which all the 'white slave traders' were) set up shop themselves and started catching and selling Africans.
Blacks canât accept the common bond they share with whites: that both Europeans and Africans were slaves under Islam.
Some Africans do know that islamics enslaved them. Yes, both Europeans and Africans were enslaved by islam. And it is also true that christianity for a long time enslaved Europeans too (both non-christian and christian). But like Islam, christian Europeans viewed all African peoples as potential slaves, whereas christian Europe did not view all of its own people as slaves. African *meant* slave for all intents and purposes to both christians and muslims. (And that too whether the African converted or not.)
In short, white slavery under islam overlaps with only a subset of all of the African slavery experience.
The jihad of Umar (the second caliph, a pope-king) exploded into the world of the unbelievers. Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian North Africa. [...] The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.
Author conveniently forgot to mention:
'The Christian Crusading Conquest of Constantine (first christo emperor of Rome) exploded into the world of the heathens. The Christian conquest destroyed a pagan Middle east and pagan North Africa: i.e. it destroyed the ancient Greco-Roman civilisation. The history of christianity is the destruction of paganism in all of Europe ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A1.htm ), as well as North Africa and the Middle East including Levant which were then part of the Roman Empire. Most of pagan Europe was lost, and later all of it was lost in the official Crusades against the remaining pagans of northeastern Europe ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A2c.htm#NorthernCrusades )
Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.
Before Christianity, North Africa was the pagan southern part of the pagan Roman Empire, christianity merely inherited this. Christianity killed the Greco-Roman civilisation. Countless millions of Europe were genocided in christianity's conversion drives in the continent.
(Note also that the above tries to give meaning to 'Europe': though North Africa is Arabian and Berber and the like, it would be considered part of Europe as long as it was christian. But pagan Rome never regarded northern Europe as related to it... not Roman.)
The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Greatâs army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died.
Umm, did the writer just imply that Alexander's men either genocided or intermarried with all the Iranian and Indian Afghans so that the only people left in the region during islamic invasion were descended from Greeks? Well, he's wrong. By far the most were completely Afghan, only a few had Greek ancestry.
In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad.
Yeah, and now he ought not to forget to list how many millions of African 'animists' were genocided in the long process of converting Africa to christianity. And it still continues. As does the islamic j-had against African Religion.
Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam.
And 200 million+ in the Americas alone thanks to christianity. See for instance http://freetruth.50webs.org/A4a.htm
Christians believe that âlove conquers all.â
Huh? If 'love' means christianity, then 'tis true: love (christian genocide) has conquered nearly all except islam:
Well, love does not conquer Islam.
That's right. Christian 'love' (the crusades) did not conquer islam's 'love'.
Christians have a difficult time seeing Islam as a political doctrine, not a religion.
They're having a difficult time seeing that christianity is the same as islam, and that will always be until a christian stops being a christian.
The victims deny that the abuse took place: Our media never reports the majority of jihad around the world. Our intellectuals donât talk about how all of the violence is connected to a political doctrine.
Classic case of christian converts in India too (as indeed those conditioned by christianity: the pseudo-seculars and communists). Descendants of victims (converts) under Portuguese terror deny that the christo abuse took place. Media never reports on the christoterrorism and genocide by christianity around the world ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/Overview4.htm ). Intellectuals don't talk about how all of the violence is connected to christian doctrine.
Political Islam has annihilated every culture it has invaded or immigrated to. The total time for annihilation takes centuries, but once Islam is ascendant it never fails. The host culture disappears and becomes extinct.
Either the author is the typical christian hypocrite or really ignorant of christianity. Christianity has annihilated every culture it has invaded or immigrated to (or at least tried to). The last two sentences in the quote above also apply to christianity.
India has survived islamic, christian and communist attack - but not for lack of trying by the latter three. Show me another country that survived all three. (China swallowed up by communism, Greece's Anatolia and even Persia taken over by Islam, Greece and Rome by christianity.)
We must learn the doctrine of political Islam to survive. The doctrine is very clear that all forms of force and persuasion may and must be used to conquer us. Islam is a self-declared enemy of all unbelievers. The brilliant Chinese philosopher of war, Sun Tsu, had the dictumâknow the enemy. We must know the doctrine of our enemy or be annihilated.
Right back at him: replace islam with christianity above. Christianity has declared that it will convert all of the unconverted (see their plan in Joshua Project).
Or put another way: if we do not learn the doctrine of political Islam, our civilization will be annihilated just as Egyptâs Coptic civilization was annihilated.
If we do not learn the doctrines of both islam and christianity, all natural religionists will be annihilated just as Egypt's pagan civilisation (pre-terrorist-Coptic christians) were by the christians as was the rest of the Roman Empire and Greece. Likewise, we'll be annihilated by islam just like Persia was.
<b>My point is this:</b> Christoislamism is one religion. It is the same religion. Of course its two major denominations don't agree with each other, but then the sunnis and shias don't see eye to eye either, and nor do the millions of christian sects.
But in all ways and to all other people, christoislamism is one and the same intolerant ideology.