<!--QuoteBegin-dhu+Feb 9 2007, 01:08 AM-->QUOTE(dhu @ Feb 9 2007, 01:08 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>The Vatican was terribly happy when Orthodox Russia and other nearby Orthodox countries went communist. </b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this was back in 1917. what indications do you have that they understood the forest fire effects of communism back then? what other instances can we think of, where they have applied the forest effect for laying waste to traditional categories? church has a v long history.[right][snapback]64178[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->A Greek Orthodox forum of expatriates. Members were not just Greeks from Australia and the US, but Romanians, Ukrainians, some Russians, many Serbs and Slovenians I think. Many useful threads. One of which was discussing this.
But I do think the Protestant conspiracy-theorist site 'Reformation.org' blows this up a lot, even if the underlying case is true: that the Vatican was pleased about it, to say the least.
It wasn't the revolution of 1917, but more that after Stalin followed up Lenin, and when later, at war's end (WWII), the Eastern bloc engulfed countries in the east. Though the Orthodox Church in Russia was allowed significant freedom, it no longer had the patronage of the autocratic person of the czar. So when it started to whither away, the Vatican cheered. (The Vatican was afraid of communism for it's own sake: afraid of what could happen to the Catholic countries, but when it happened to Orthodoxy they saw the accidental usefulness of it.)
On another matter, the Vatican had also cheered (and celebrated with thankful prayers) when the famed Sophia Church, one of the most important and prestigious of the Greek Orthodox Churches, fell into Turkish hands. (Some even say the Vatican had a deal with the Turkish head at the time, was it Ataturk?) Either way, it was particularly pleased when Sophia was turned into a mosque then museum (or was it museum then mosque?)
The Sophia Church had long been seen as a sign of continued Orthodox defiance (having recovered from the onslaught of the Catholic Crusade against it), so the Vatican saw this final disaster as some sordid spiritual victory over the Greek Church. Meanwhile the Greek Church is still alive and well, so it was but an imaginary omen in the catholic mind. Every victory over Orthodoxy made the catholic church happy. Most infamously, this included the mass Croatian genocide of Serbs (Orthodox Christians), destruction of Serbian Greek Orthodox Churches and massacre of Serbian Orthodox priests - these were particularly planned, encouraged and blessed by the villainous catholic church.
According to some more worried members of the Greek Orthodox forums, the catholic church is also pleased about the communist presence in Greece (which had already been significant in Greece during the nazi era). I don't know how factual their fears about this are, but it can't be said to be unlikely.
this was back in 1917. what indications do you have that they understood the forest fire effects of communism back then? what other instances can we think of, where they have applied the forest effect for laying waste to traditional categories? church has a v long history.[right][snapback]64178[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->A Greek Orthodox forum of expatriates. Members were not just Greeks from Australia and the US, but Romanians, Ukrainians, some Russians, many Serbs and Slovenians I think. Many useful threads. One of which was discussing this.
But I do think the Protestant conspiracy-theorist site 'Reformation.org' blows this up a lot, even if the underlying case is true: that the Vatican was pleased about it, to say the least.
It wasn't the revolution of 1917, but more that after Stalin followed up Lenin, and when later, at war's end (WWII), the Eastern bloc engulfed countries in the east. Though the Orthodox Church in Russia was allowed significant freedom, it no longer had the patronage of the autocratic person of the czar. So when it started to whither away, the Vatican cheered. (The Vatican was afraid of communism for it's own sake: afraid of what could happen to the Catholic countries, but when it happened to Orthodoxy they saw the accidental usefulness of it.)
On another matter, the Vatican had also cheered (and celebrated with thankful prayers) when the famed Sophia Church, one of the most important and prestigious of the Greek Orthodox Churches, fell into Turkish hands. (Some even say the Vatican had a deal with the Turkish head at the time, was it Ataturk?) Either way, it was particularly pleased when Sophia was turned into a mosque then museum (or was it museum then mosque?)
The Sophia Church had long been seen as a sign of continued Orthodox defiance (having recovered from the onslaught of the Catholic Crusade against it), so the Vatican saw this final disaster as some sordid spiritual victory over the Greek Church. Meanwhile the Greek Church is still alive and well, so it was but an imaginary omen in the catholic mind. Every victory over Orthodoxy made the catholic church happy. Most infamously, this included the mass Croatian genocide of Serbs (Orthodox Christians), destruction of Serbian Greek Orthodox Churches and massacre of Serbian Orthodox priests - these were particularly planned, encouraged and blessed by the villainous catholic church.
According to some more worried members of the Greek Orthodox forums, the catholic church is also pleased about the communist presence in Greece (which had already been significant in Greece during the nazi era). I don't know how factual their fears about this are, but it can't be said to be unlikely.