Rama Setu -1

[Guest]

First of all, welcome to the newest member of the Forum, Neelan.

Some questions are very good, innocent ones, some born out of ignorance - both of which are most welcome, and I shall attempt to answer. Some others are born out of adamance, which I shall just highlight and leave unanswered. Lastly, some are purely coming from unwillingness to do any reasearch but readiness to carry on analysis.

<span style='color:red'>Q1</span>

I note that the project has been "around" for decades. The noise and sudden realization of the National Treasure are what are new. So, people who looked forward to the advances promised by the project, will indeed ask what is behind this sudden noise.

Catagory2 question, born out of ignorance.

As I said in my earlier post, Hindus groups are <b>NOT opposing the project</b> itself. They are <b>opposing THIS configuration </b>of the project, which attempts to damage the Setu.

Project has been around, and all the configurations that had been proposed so far were doing no harm to the Setu, that is why Hindu groups were not opposed to the project. Present one, is the only one, proposed for the first time, that attempts a damage to the Setu.

I shall illustrate it using the below cartograph, which shows all the 5 configurations and the present one:

<img src='http://iri.columbia.edu/~mahaweli/climate.lk_mirror/sethu/img/002.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

The shape which looks like a bone is the Rameshwaram island. Setu starts from a point called Dhanushkoti which can be seen on the estern-most point on the island. Setu starts from here. Notice, that all the 5 earlier propsals which have been around since 1961, have all been to the WEST of Dhanushkoti, avoiding any harm to the Setu.

The 6th one - the present one - is the only one, which has been dragged drastically to the east, like an elastic, so as to target the center point of the Setu.

This should answer the question, why no Hindu objected to the PROJECT so far, and why suddenly the opposition. (Short answer: Because there was no damage to the Setu So far, in any of the earlier proposals!)

<span style='color:red'>Q2</span>

And my question is: "What is the Due Reverence to an engineering marvel?" Some here take the position that Due Reverence means freeze things in glass cases or behind walls, and walk around them seven times, and pray.

This is Category 3 question. Bordering on nonsensical and idioticity.

Answer: Righto! So what is the problem if someone has been "walking around them seven times, and pray". Whats wrong with that? Do you know how close you stand to the Wahabi government led by Saud family in Arabia, that destroyed house of Prophet Mohammed, because they did not want people to do exactly what is bothering you. So whats <b>YOUR</b> problem if someone wants to worship Setu?

<span style='color:red'>Q3</span>

In the particular case, I have not seen a single initiative from those most devoted to this National Treasure, to actually PRESERVE or PROTECT or ENHANCE it.

Category 3, and I dont want to spend time on this, so I will take what you say for a fact. At best this would show 'lack of sincerity' or 'lack of resources' of those who respect it. Which is no reason for Setu to NOT be considered a treasure. Fault of 'some' people, not of Setu. What a logic that something which is not Preserved/Protected/Enhanced deserves to be destroyed!!!

<span style='color:red'>Q4</span>

Some have been pointing to the "NASA images" (though I would be very interested to see the originals at the NASA site..) as the "proof" of the existence of the Sethu, thus implying that this realization is something new. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Category 3
If you are that interested you should go to NASA website. It is not difficult at all. Do some research. If you dont find, I will send you the link, but first do your own research. Now, onus of proof lies with the proposal-maker. Assertion that this structure is NOT "setu" has been made by SSCP configuration (by ignoring and negating the common belief). So the onus of doing the reaserch, conducting marine-archeology, and multi-disciplinary project lies with the government. Until they do this, how can they take a stand that "there is no setu"?

But this is exactly what they are doing. See the answer to Rajya Sabha Question by Ms Angelica Soni :

from post 14:

Ambika Soni's statement, delivered in Rajya Sabha, on 6-March-2007:

"There are no archaeological studies revealing the existence of a Ram Sethu Bridge between India and Sri Lanka. A NASA satellite picture shows the existence of a stretch of land bridge in the Palk Strait between India and Sri Lanka. As to declaring and preserving the said bridge as an ancient monument of National and Historical importance, such question does not arise."

So NASA or no-NASA, there is no ASI research undertaken. Without doing archelogical research about such a unique subject, how can she even conclude that "there is no proof" and "no question of heritage"?

But like you, she seems to be on the other side of the logic.

<span style='color:red'>5</span>

In fact, if the research is properly done, it should show that the top so many feet are just silt from the paddy fields of Andhra, Orissa and Bengal and the Gangetic plains, washed into the Bay of Bengal.

There you are. "If Research is done" -> "it should show". Research follows the already drwan conclusion. Cart before the horse. So much for the intelligent "scientist" mind we have in dialogue here! Perfectly in tally with Ms Angelika Soni's answer.


<span style='color:red'>6</span>

The Sethu has been eroded and deteriorating for millennia. The landscape attached to the Sethu has changed dramatically over the centuries, with every cyclone, and the constant erosion and silt deposition.

How do you know about "eroded and deteriorated for Millenia"? How do you know about millenia? Site some proof. Oops! Sorry I forgot that you are one of the "Science" folks, speculation is enough.

In fact within the documented history, Setu has not eroded much at all, in the last 1500 years of recorded descriptions of Setu. Cyclones have been destroying/eroding/modifying coral reefs in the area, but not Setu. Setu is largely intact as was seen by Huen Tsang long time back when he traveled from India to Sri Lanka. The latest research done by Bharatidasan University shows that the interesting curvature to Setu is "probably" because of the alternative clockwise and counter-clock wise currents over thousands of years, but no structural damage.

<span style='color:red'>7</span>

most holy of holy places, Rameswaram, are kept about as clean and neat as a pigsty, with not even the most basic sanitation, hardly any roads, and no opportunities for the local population to advance. This, they would have me believe, is their version of Worship to Shri Rama and the Vanara Sena.

Again, I will not argue on the accuracy of the fact, but only on the inference drawn from the fact. So if Rameshwaram (temples or town itself?) is 'dirty', how did it become an argument against Setu and for destroying Setu?

Maybe it will show that those who are opposing the Setu destruction, should improve the Holy teerth of Rameshwar. Agreed. But does it mean, this takes away their argument for the protection of Setu?

Exactly same argument which British used to give. 'Look at your country! It is not even one nation! You dirty dogs dying of Hunger and ready to kill each other. You deserve colonization'.

<span style='color:red'>8</span>

tossing 1-paisa coins...young human...enough to get some food... utterly unconcerned about the kids and mothers begging on shore.

Same thing as earlier point. Given, Rameshwaram is full of poverty, so are several places in Tamil Nadu and in India. What has that got to do with THIS CONFIGURATION of the project? How does THIS CONFIGURATION ONLY help in poverty alleviation?

<span style='color:red'>9</span>

Bodhi here now says that there was never any intent to oppose the project itself. This is a great development, and s(he) is probably right in cynically calculating that few will remember precisely what was being demanded just a few weeks ago.

Please quote ONCE when Hindu groups like RSS were demanding anything other than stopping the destruction of Setu, and changing the configuration, with multi-disciplinary considerations.

<span style='color:red'>10</span>

Simple reasoning about what the topography must have been, millenia ago, will tell you that the Rameshwaram Temple or Dhanushkodi are NOT where they were then. My guess is that Dhanushkodi, the legendary starting point of the Sethu, was miles away. The present location of Dhanushkodi is on a shifting sandbank, not any ancient rock. It is probably a creation in fairly recent times.

On the other hand, the satellite images show that the narrow land feature starts far to the west, and the Pamban is certainly a part of the overall "sethu". But since the British dredged it and built a bridge, there is absolutely no concern about "preserving" that part of the Sethu, since there is no political capital to be made out of it. This shows the hollowness of the whole campaign of opposition.

I thought you just said you had not seen NASA images on NASA website. Which satellite images you are talking about now?

But, let me get your point, which is this: "Setu" is already destroyed at one place - pamban - so what the heck, why oppose another dig? Right?

First of all, this gives away your level of knowledge, research work, and (lack of) willingness to learn, while readiness of doing cheap speculations. You are not ready to learn this simple fact of geography and history that Pamban was not even a port a few hundred year back. Pamban was well inside the land, and Rameshwaram itself was not an island until 500 years ago. Dhanushkoti, eastern point of Rameshwar, is where Setu starts.

You, who are so logical, owe this answer. If Setu started from Pamban as you say, then Hindus must have built the temple in Pamban, and not in Rameshwaram. Why are the ancient temples that celebrate the location where Rama worshipped Shiva before Setu bandhan, and again Rama-Sita worshipped after victorious - these must be on Pamban, then. The latest renovated temple shrine of Rameshwaram dham is "at least" as old as 600 years, when records of its renovation exist. If, as you say, Setu goes all the way upto Pamban, then why was this temple not erected at Pamban, instead of Dhanushkoti - the eastern point of Rameshwaram?

Another important shrine of Rameshwar is Gandhamadana shrine at a peak towards the northern-eastern point. Again, "at least" a few hundereds year old shrine, dedicated as the place where Rama suprevised the Setu construction. Belief aside, why did some one erect a temple here at Rameshwaram, why not at Pamban itself?

Answer to these questions is very simple. Setu starts at Rameshwar, not Pamban.

1> Here is the map drawn by Rannel in 1804, where 'Adam's Bridge' name first occured:
<img src='http://bp0.blogger.com/_Cvup3_AVyF0/RgyZp5aXfoI/AAAAAAAAAAs/6N4J9NzWY80/s1600-h/Rennel.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
In this he clearly shows Adams bridge from 'Ramen' to 'Mannar' (Ramen = Rameshwar)

- Rameshwaram was NOT an island at the time of Chola kings, as is recorded in Chola's invasions of Lanka.

- It was not even an island during Khilji's time, when Malik Kafuur marched up to Rameshwar without difficulty.

- Dutch record mention that Pamban became a port and Rameshwaram an "island" in the year 1482, during the reign of Achudappa Nayakam king of Madurai. Very frequent cyclones cut off Rameshwaram further, and during the reign of the next king Vishvarada Nayakam, cyclones had created a very large gap, but still, one could walk from Pamban to Rameshwaram. When Dutch arrived, they built a fort, and enlarged this gap further, and which was again enlarged finally in 1830 by British.

<span style='color:red'>11</span>

ppl who are so concerned about the "livelihood" of the fisherfolk on the coast, when there is a proposal to dredge the top 8 feet off, over a 300m-wide, few-mile-long swathe some 10 miles off shore, are completely unconcerned about the huge disruption of dredging a sea canal through the Pamban area.

Ignorance is truely a bliss?

Remember the news I posted in one of the posts on this thread, which reported the news of 4 fishermen having been killed, shot down by Lankan Navy?

Sea-Fishing happens NOT in the waters between Pamban and Rameshwar, but in the Setu Samudram waters that extends upto international waters. That is where they catch most fish and Shankhakars get Shankhas. So, if you build a channel between Pamban and Rameshwar (instead of the present config), fishermen of Rameshwar and surrounding fishing village isles will still have unrestricted access to their fishing waters - which is NOT between Pamban and Rameshwar, but towards the international side.

Again, it is for "THIS CONFIG ONLY" people to show how this config is going to pull the poor fishermen out of their poverty as Sonia Ji is crying in tears, or the greatest economist India ever produced ManMohan Singhji is saying.

Got it! Nandigram. SEZ.

<span style='color:red'>12</span>

Why is "Bodhi" so worried when the facts, the realities, of Rameshwaram are posted on the propaganda BLOG, that they had to be censored out?
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The sewage from Chennai, all gazillion tons of it, and the infamous Stinko Canals of Chennai, pour out into the sea and go right over these temples. Is THAT not "hurting the sentiments". Why is "Husky" pointing to the "fever in your brain"

So that gives you away. Wherever you go, in whichever shape, form or name, you carry your bag of what you like most with you, and its stink. The stink is the reason, I had to hesitatingly delete comments of "Neelan"/"bud"/Dr. Narayanan Ji. A decent debate is welcome, but not the stink which comes with the language that unavoidably contains at least one reference to poo/latrine/sewer and other synonyms. Please dont bring that there, because garbade will be immediately cleaned. But any decent debate, always welcome.

Best was this:

Try not to mix political propaganda into "religion" and "science", please.

Neelan has shown ample knowledge of both.

Moderator Request! Friends, I dont want this thread to go waste through the rout of the earlier ones. Will you kindly moderate this one more carefully and closely?