Post 23 ('Neelan'):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Try not to mix political propaganda into "religion" and "science", please.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Try not confuse christoislamism with other ancient ways of life, okay?
I don't follow christianity or islam, which are religions that don't mix with science by definition. It is the west where science and religion needed to be kept separate to progress (and by similarity of ideology, islamic countries). On the other hand, in Hinduism, our ancient scientists <i>were</i> Hindus. As was the case also in other nations like Ancient Rome and Greece, China, Persia, where the local religionists were the scientists.
As you might or might not know, it's christoislam that's the aberration and to which all these modern rules apply: scientists christoislamic nations had were specifically not christian or islamic, as historians have repeatedly pointed out. (Please don't say Newton - he was a Catharan heretic of Jewish ancestry.)
So, stop using western 'secular' arguments like 'separation-of-church-and-state' and 'shouldn't-mix-religion-and-science' in Hinduism. And likewise, stop presenting 'rationality, logic and reason' as if they were a separate stream of thought from Hinduism. Just for you're information, they're not, they're intrinsic to all schools of Dharmic thought.
We're not western seculars, and Dharmic traditions have no trouble with science or governance. I know this is hard to understand for people who are out of sync with Dharmic traditions and have only learnt western history and the western outlook and think the whole world is the same and underwent the same problems in its history.
But in summary: the world is not the same, the history and troubles faced by Europe under christianity (and in the ME by islam) are not the history and troubles faced by us non-christoislamics. Stop projecting western-christian patterns onto non-christian countries.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->most holy of holy places, Rameswaram, are kept about as clean and neat as a pigsty, with not even the most basic sanitation, hardly any roads, and no opportunities for the local population to advance. This, they would have me believe, is their version of Worship to Shri Rama and the Vanara Sena.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Every single South Indian temple I know is surrounded by huts - what western people (and the Indians parroting them) call 'slums'. Many poorer people live in the vicinity of temples. What is your point? You might find this a pigsty, but I don't see it as such. I see how they make a living by selling flowers for the puja in the temple or selling pictures of the Gods, and with their trade take care of their families. Many temples I know also ensure they never go hungry, by offering free food to those that need it, so that's one worry solved right there. The Indian temples themselves are clean, they are kept clean. The temples never had a problem working with and being faced with poor people all day. It is the reality of much of India. As much as you'd like to imagine away poor Indians into some dark corner to remove your unease at the sight of them, Hindu temples don't suffer from the same views as you.
Much of India is still poor - so stop asking why they can't 'Worship Shri Rama and the Vanara Sena' in the way rich folks do who can afford to build palatial buildings here and there and hire people to clean up after them.
And another thing. You can't be ignorant of the fact that the psecular government takes most of the money the Indian temples raise and gives it to churches and for hajj subsidy, so there's very little left for maintenance of the temples themselves and the roads leading up to them. Even then, like in AP, the christo Chief Minister gets his men to swindle the remaining temple money and ensure complete decay of temples, just like the Portuguese and British did before him.
Why castigate Hindu temples and Hindus for the poor upkeep of their temples, when Hindus happily donate whatever they can spare to their local temple, thinking all of it goes toward its maintenance and toward serving those in need? Most Hindus still don't know the christo-govt is draining/stealing money from their temples and putting it in the overflowing coffers of the church and funding j-hadis. Temples are making every rupee stretch in trying to do all they need to and still buy, prepare and give free food. It's not like we're churches, who get money from the west and still get stolen money from temples, but do nothing for the poor unless they can advertise it to the world.
Also, if you can't deal with poor people, just stay away from S Indian temples altogether or build your own temple in the US or UK or wherever it is you live. Because otherwise, who knows, you might just bump into a 'poor Hindoo' (gasp) and 'catch poverty' or something from them if you visit a S Indian temple! Leave that to us folks as don't mind, then, 'kay? Grief.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The "Defenders of the National Treasures" were not interested then.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Huhh? You're joking, right?
Don't you know that it's because by far the most of us were not aware of the designs on the RamarSethu? Those Hindus that have become aware now do care about this issue. Thus far, we thought it was safe, and that it would always be there. It's not disinterest, as you wrongly put it, but taking for granted that no one would ever be insane enough to try anything against it.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Sethu has been eroded and deteriorating for millennia. The landscape attached to the Sethu has changed dramatically over the centuries, with every cyclone, and the constant erosion and silt deposition.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->See Bodhi's post above. But also another point. Just because humans have been killed by natural disasters (floods, cyclones, tornadoes, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, heat waves....) does not make it okay for other humans to go around killing people. Likewise, Nature is allowed to have an effect on the Sethu, but willfull and calculated human damage is what we oppose. Is it so hard to understand? Why make such trivial and irrelevant arguments?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Try not to mix political propaganda into "religion" and "science", please.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Try not confuse christoislamism with other ancient ways of life, okay?
I don't follow christianity or islam, which are religions that don't mix with science by definition. It is the west where science and religion needed to be kept separate to progress (and by similarity of ideology, islamic countries). On the other hand, in Hinduism, our ancient scientists <i>were</i> Hindus. As was the case also in other nations like Ancient Rome and Greece, China, Persia, where the local religionists were the scientists.
As you might or might not know, it's christoislam that's the aberration and to which all these modern rules apply: scientists christoislamic nations had were specifically not christian or islamic, as historians have repeatedly pointed out. (Please don't say Newton - he was a Catharan heretic of Jewish ancestry.)
So, stop using western 'secular' arguments like 'separation-of-church-and-state' and 'shouldn't-mix-religion-and-science' in Hinduism. And likewise, stop presenting 'rationality, logic and reason' as if they were a separate stream of thought from Hinduism. Just for you're information, they're not, they're intrinsic to all schools of Dharmic thought.
We're not western seculars, and Dharmic traditions have no trouble with science or governance. I know this is hard to understand for people who are out of sync with Dharmic traditions and have only learnt western history and the western outlook and think the whole world is the same and underwent the same problems in its history.
But in summary: the world is not the same, the history and troubles faced by Europe under christianity (and in the ME by islam) are not the history and troubles faced by us non-christoislamics. Stop projecting western-christian patterns onto non-christian countries.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->most holy of holy places, Rameswaram, are kept about as clean and neat as a pigsty, with not even the most basic sanitation, hardly any roads, and no opportunities for the local population to advance. This, they would have me believe, is their version of Worship to Shri Rama and the Vanara Sena.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Every single South Indian temple I know is surrounded by huts - what western people (and the Indians parroting them) call 'slums'. Many poorer people live in the vicinity of temples. What is your point? You might find this a pigsty, but I don't see it as such. I see how they make a living by selling flowers for the puja in the temple or selling pictures of the Gods, and with their trade take care of their families. Many temples I know also ensure they never go hungry, by offering free food to those that need it, so that's one worry solved right there. The Indian temples themselves are clean, they are kept clean. The temples never had a problem working with and being faced with poor people all day. It is the reality of much of India. As much as you'd like to imagine away poor Indians into some dark corner to remove your unease at the sight of them, Hindu temples don't suffer from the same views as you.
Much of India is still poor - so stop asking why they can't 'Worship Shri Rama and the Vanara Sena' in the way rich folks do who can afford to build palatial buildings here and there and hire people to clean up after them.
And another thing. You can't be ignorant of the fact that the psecular government takes most of the money the Indian temples raise and gives it to churches and for hajj subsidy, so there's very little left for maintenance of the temples themselves and the roads leading up to them. Even then, like in AP, the christo Chief Minister gets his men to swindle the remaining temple money and ensure complete decay of temples, just like the Portuguese and British did before him.
Why castigate Hindu temples and Hindus for the poor upkeep of their temples, when Hindus happily donate whatever they can spare to their local temple, thinking all of it goes toward its maintenance and toward serving those in need? Most Hindus still don't know the christo-govt is draining/stealing money from their temples and putting it in the overflowing coffers of the church and funding j-hadis. Temples are making every rupee stretch in trying to do all they need to and still buy, prepare and give free food. It's not like we're churches, who get money from the west and still get stolen money from temples, but do nothing for the poor unless they can advertise it to the world.
Also, if you can't deal with poor people, just stay away from S Indian temples altogether or build your own temple in the US or UK or wherever it is you live. Because otherwise, who knows, you might just bump into a 'poor Hindoo' (gasp) and 'catch poverty' or something from them if you visit a S Indian temple! Leave that to us folks as don't mind, then, 'kay? Grief.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The "Defenders of the National Treasures" were not interested then.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Huhh? You're joking, right?
Don't you know that it's because by far the most of us were not aware of the designs on the RamarSethu? Those Hindus that have become aware now do care about this issue. Thus far, we thought it was safe, and that it would always be there. It's not disinterest, as you wrongly put it, but taking for granted that no one would ever be insane enough to try anything against it.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Sethu has been eroded and deteriorating for millennia. The landscape attached to the Sethu has changed dramatically over the centuries, with every cyclone, and the constant erosion and silt deposition.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->See Bodhi's post above. But also another point. Just because humans have been killed by natural disasters (floods, cyclones, tornadoes, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, heat waves....) does not make it okay for other humans to go around killing people. Likewise, Nature is allowed to have an effect on the Sethu, but willfull and calculated human damage is what we oppose. Is it so hard to understand? Why make such trivial and irrelevant arguments?