04-20-2007, 07:48 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The word might not mean slave but it definitely meant servant with no rights and in bondage to the owner as Karna describes. I take your word for it if you say it wasnt like the Western concept of slave.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sounds like a life of slavery to me: no rights, bonded labour (and no pay, I'm assuming).
Could you discuss this further? Maybe provide translations from the Mahabharatam of what was said? (I've only heard Mahabharatam narrated over many weeks and that too when I was much younger. I certainly don't know the exact details like you do.)
About Wilberforce:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The call for the abolition of black slavery came not from Christians but from freethinkers generally. Slavery was abolished in France in 1791, not by the church, but by the atheistic founders of the revolution. In the U.S. the early critics of slavery, Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), George Washington (1732-1799), Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) and John Quincy Adams (1767-1848), were all either freethinkers or Deists. Later the abolitionist cause was taken up by such people as Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865), a Deist, Raplh Waldo Emerson (1803-1882), a Unitarian minister turned free-thinker, and William Lyold Garrison (1805-1879), an agnostic. In England, the battle for the abolition of slavery was fought mainly by free-thinkers such as Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832) and John Stuart Mill (1806-1873).
While it cannot be denied that some Christians were involved in abolitionists movements, they were the exception rather than the rule. In some cases these Christians acquired their anti-slavery beliefs not from their religion. Take the example of the name most used by Christian apologists to show that Christians were opposed to slavery:<b> William Wilberforce</b> (1759-1833). [He was skeptical, an agnostic] the first thirty years of his life ... [when] h<b>e developed his sense of abhorrence towards slavery. He was, at that time a Deist, as were his closest associates.</b> [The Social Record of Christianity, Joseph McCabe] Furthermore, his chief allies in his battle for abolitionism were Quakers, dissenters and free-thinkers, not the mainstream Christians. The support from the established churches for his actions was described by Wilberforce himself as "disgracefully lukewarm." In fact, many conservative members of the clergy actively tried to suppress and obstruct his anti-slavery cause.
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Could you discuss this further? Maybe provide translations from the Mahabharatam of what was said? (I've only heard Mahabharatam narrated over many weeks and that too when I was much younger. I certainly don't know the exact details like you do.)
About Wilberforce:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The call for the abolition of black slavery came not from Christians but from freethinkers generally. Slavery was abolished in France in 1791, not by the church, but by the atheistic founders of the revolution. In the U.S. the early critics of slavery, Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), George Washington (1732-1799), Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) and John Quincy Adams (1767-1848), were all either freethinkers or Deists. Later the abolitionist cause was taken up by such people as Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865), a Deist, Raplh Waldo Emerson (1803-1882), a Unitarian minister turned free-thinker, and William Lyold Garrison (1805-1879), an agnostic. In England, the battle for the abolition of slavery was fought mainly by free-thinkers such as Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832) and John Stuart Mill (1806-1873).
While it cannot be denied that some Christians were involved in abolitionists movements, they were the exception rather than the rule. In some cases these Christians acquired their anti-slavery beliefs not from their religion. Take the example of the name most used by Christian apologists to show that Christians were opposed to slavery:<b> William Wilberforce</b> (1759-1833). [He was skeptical, an agnostic] the first thirty years of his life ... [when] h<b>e developed his sense of abhorrence towards slavery. He was, at that time a Deist, as were his closest associates.</b> [The Social Record of Christianity, Joseph McCabe] Furthermore, his chief allies in his battle for abolitionism were Quakers, dissenters and free-thinkers, not the mainstream Christians. The support from the established churches for his actions was described by Wilberforce himself as "disgracefully lukewarm." In fact, many conservative members of the clergy actively tried to suppress and obstruct his anti-slavery cause.
Link <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->