<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Basque, Irish, Welsh etc are considered to be proto-Europids<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->According to an article by geneticist Stephen Oppenheimer that Viren posted, English too are largely Basque and so are most of the Celts of Britain. Which still has nothing to do with India.
Pingala has other meanings:
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=25571
(Post 26 by Sunder)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You are IDA, Pingala, and the Sushumna <b>channels</b>.
Bowings to you Mother, you are the protector of the whole world. Protect us O Mother Durga.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So perhaps pingala, like Go/Gau must not always be taken as having one particular meaning (like Go has frequently been taken to always mean cow even when it didn't mean cow)?
My own post long time back
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=55961
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Red hair is mentioned amongst Japanese - some Samurai were described as being 'red-headed'. I don't know if this was meant symbolically (to designate particular heroic or villainous characters) or meant literally or whether the Japanese found brown hair so strange that they described it as red. This might be like how the Greeks described Alexander as having fair hair and then looking at the famous painting of him, his hair colour is medium-brown. So this is then light enough to be considered 'fair hair' in ancient Greece.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So even descriptions of people as having fair or red hair does not always mean they really had fair or red hair. It could just have meant 'fairer' hair or 'redder' hair than the norm, which in cases such as these merely indicated some shade of brown.
From the link you pasted. Posting the full context:
http://voiceofdharma.com/books/ait/ch49.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the Vedas, the only ones whom they describe as âgolden-hairedâ are the resplendent lightning gods Indra and Rudra and the sun-god Savitar; not the Aryans or Brahmins.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->(Golden-haired in the same way I would be if I were a solar or lightning deity - that's not the same as blonde, though. Was it Indra who is elsewhere described as being completely golden?)
Even allowing for references to hair colour - the above continues
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->At the same time, several passages explicitly mention black hair when referring to Brahmins.95 <b>These texts are considerably earlier than the enigmatic passage in Patanjali</b> describing Brahmins as golden- or tawny-haired (piNgala and kapisha).96 Already one of Patanjaliâs early commentators dismissed this line as absurd. To the passage from the grammarian Panini which describes Brahmins as âbrown-hairedâ, A.A. Macdonnell notes (apparently against contemporary claims to the contrary): âAll we can say is that the above-mentioned expressions do not give evidence of blonde characteristics of the ancient Brahmans.â97 Considering that Patanjali was elaborating upon the work of Panini, could it have anything to do with Paniniâs location in the far northwest, where lighter hair must have been fairly common?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->It is possible, as in other cultures, that ancient Indians could have referred to even dark, medium and reddish brown hair with these same descriptions.
Another case:
China traces the history of Taoism back to the "Yellow Emperor" whose exact time is enshrouded in mists.
Most westerners, as is their wont, like to dismiss this person and his age as mythology - then they can date Taoism at the pathetically recent 500 BCE you see. But the Oryanists got very interested in him, only because they like to fantasize that this is some kind of clear admission on the part of the Chinese that the Emperor was some blonde Oryan from Europe/'Eurasia'.
However, there's actually no indication that the yellow in 'Yellow Emperor' is descriptive of his hair (nor of his skin-colour, the Chinese do not refer to themselves as 'the yellow race' which is a western invention because 19th century naturalists of the west considered their own people as the'white race' and no other people were allowed to intrude on that sacred ground).
'Yellow' in Yellow Emperor might have been purely an adjective to describe some character trait of the emperor, as the colour might have (had) special significance or descriptive meaning - perhaps purity or joy, referring to his own personal qualities or that of his reign. (His reign has been described as a Golden age and that is when they say the Tao was first realised by many in China.) Or the use of 'yellow' might have indicated his solar descent - something that is a motif, though in different contexts, in many Asian populations including Indians and Japanese. In any case, the yellow did not signify the emperor was blonde or yellow-haired in reality.
<b>ADDED:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I feel he was making a distinction between deva and danava. Devas had brown & golden hair (a varient of brown hair) and Danava were distinguished by Red hair and a diluted tawny version.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Do you have any indications as to why he would have been referring to Danavas and Devas when he does not say so outright?
Also, Devas and Rakshasas at least have always been considered non-human by Indians, in spite of what the indologicals liked to preoccupy themselves with in order to prove their AIT.
Early Indians did not equate even Rakshasas with humans, as also alluded to in the Talageri link
http://voiceofdharma.com/books/ait/ch49.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->On the other hand, demons or Rakshasas, so often equated with the âdark-skinned aboriginalsâ, have on occasion been described as red- or tawny-haired (also piNgala or kapisha, the same as Patanjaliâs Brahmins).98 Deviating from the <b>usual Indian line that all these demon creatures are but supernatural entities</b>,<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And the later invasions of Indo-Europeans into Western Europe has been described as Golden/Brown haired and blue/grey eyed.
This is same as described by Patanjali.
The Basque, Irish, Welsh etc are considered to be proto-Europids and are till today fighting the <b>Indo-European</b> colonizers symbolized by the modern day nomenclature of 'protestants' and 'invading IE celtic tribes' in spain.
This fight is underlined by the primordial chasm between 'deva worshipping' <b>IE's</b> and the Danava types who worship the mother Goddess.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->You are speculating on several accounts:
(1) There is no indication of AIT having ever happened.
(2) Celts have by now long been claimed as being IE people for speaking languages of the IE family. (That they are now found to have mostly Basque ancestry, as also most of the English, is another matter.)
(3) It is a very recent suggestion (originally noticed it in New Agey and 'feminist' circles) that there must have been a clash between followers of a Mother Goddess and some patriarchical blue-green-eyed oryans worshipping supposedly all-male Devas. It is unfounded. (More so when even the oryans are as yet unfounded.)
In the Indian situation it has never been <i>either</i> male <i>or</i> female. Most Devas are referred to as having wives. You have shlokas in the Vedas to Usha wife of Surya, for instance. The word Devi is the natural female counterpart of the word Deva.
And we can extend the situation even to neighbouring Iran. Anahita, for instance, is an ancient Persian Goddess of the Iranian Pantheon.
Even <i>were</i> I to consider the IE hypothesis, each 'IE population' has always had female and male deities like every human population except the monotheists:
Germanic people (eg. Freya), Celts (see here for male and female deities), Greeks and Romans (Jupiter, Juno for example). And I am certain the same case can be made for the various Eastern-European peoples and Russians.
Pingala has other meanings:
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=25571
(Post 26 by Sunder)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You are IDA, Pingala, and the Sushumna <b>channels</b>.
Bowings to you Mother, you are the protector of the whole world. Protect us O Mother Durga.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So perhaps pingala, like Go/Gau must not always be taken as having one particular meaning (like Go has frequently been taken to always mean cow even when it didn't mean cow)?
My own post long time back
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=55961
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Red hair is mentioned amongst Japanese - some Samurai were described as being 'red-headed'. I don't know if this was meant symbolically (to designate particular heroic or villainous characters) or meant literally or whether the Japanese found brown hair so strange that they described it as red. This might be like how the Greeks described Alexander as having fair hair and then looking at the famous painting of him, his hair colour is medium-brown. So this is then light enough to be considered 'fair hair' in ancient Greece.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So even descriptions of people as having fair or red hair does not always mean they really had fair or red hair. It could just have meant 'fairer' hair or 'redder' hair than the norm, which in cases such as these merely indicated some shade of brown.
From the link you pasted. Posting the full context:
http://voiceofdharma.com/books/ait/ch49.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the Vedas, the only ones whom they describe as âgolden-hairedâ are the resplendent lightning gods Indra and Rudra and the sun-god Savitar; not the Aryans or Brahmins.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->(Golden-haired in the same way I would be if I were a solar or lightning deity - that's not the same as blonde, though. Was it Indra who is elsewhere described as being completely golden?)
Even allowing for references to hair colour - the above continues
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->At the same time, several passages explicitly mention black hair when referring to Brahmins.95 <b>These texts are considerably earlier than the enigmatic passage in Patanjali</b> describing Brahmins as golden- or tawny-haired (piNgala and kapisha).96 Already one of Patanjaliâs early commentators dismissed this line as absurd. To the passage from the grammarian Panini which describes Brahmins as âbrown-hairedâ, A.A. Macdonnell notes (apparently against contemporary claims to the contrary): âAll we can say is that the above-mentioned expressions do not give evidence of blonde characteristics of the ancient Brahmans.â97 Considering that Patanjali was elaborating upon the work of Panini, could it have anything to do with Paniniâs location in the far northwest, where lighter hair must have been fairly common?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->It is possible, as in other cultures, that ancient Indians could have referred to even dark, medium and reddish brown hair with these same descriptions.
Another case:
China traces the history of Taoism back to the "Yellow Emperor" whose exact time is enshrouded in mists.
Most westerners, as is their wont, like to dismiss this person and his age as mythology - then they can date Taoism at the pathetically recent 500 BCE you see. But the Oryanists got very interested in him, only because they like to fantasize that this is some kind of clear admission on the part of the Chinese that the Emperor was some blonde Oryan from Europe/'Eurasia'.
However, there's actually no indication that the yellow in 'Yellow Emperor' is descriptive of his hair (nor of his skin-colour, the Chinese do not refer to themselves as 'the yellow race' which is a western invention because 19th century naturalists of the west considered their own people as the'white race' and no other people were allowed to intrude on that sacred ground).
'Yellow' in Yellow Emperor might have been purely an adjective to describe some character trait of the emperor, as the colour might have (had) special significance or descriptive meaning - perhaps purity or joy, referring to his own personal qualities or that of his reign. (His reign has been described as a Golden age and that is when they say the Tao was first realised by many in China.) Or the use of 'yellow' might have indicated his solar descent - something that is a motif, though in different contexts, in many Asian populations including Indians and Japanese. In any case, the yellow did not signify the emperor was blonde or yellow-haired in reality.
<b>ADDED:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I feel he was making a distinction between deva and danava. Devas had brown & golden hair (a varient of brown hair) and Danava were distinguished by Red hair and a diluted tawny version.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Do you have any indications as to why he would have been referring to Danavas and Devas when he does not say so outright?
Also, Devas and Rakshasas at least have always been considered non-human by Indians, in spite of what the indologicals liked to preoccupy themselves with in order to prove their AIT.
Early Indians did not equate even Rakshasas with humans, as also alluded to in the Talageri link
http://voiceofdharma.com/books/ait/ch49.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->On the other hand, demons or Rakshasas, so often equated with the âdark-skinned aboriginalsâ, have on occasion been described as red- or tawny-haired (also piNgala or kapisha, the same as Patanjaliâs Brahmins).98 Deviating from the <b>usual Indian line that all these demon creatures are but supernatural entities</b>,<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And the later invasions of Indo-Europeans into Western Europe has been described as Golden/Brown haired and blue/grey eyed.
This is same as described by Patanjali.
The Basque, Irish, Welsh etc are considered to be proto-Europids and are till today fighting the <b>Indo-European</b> colonizers symbolized by the modern day nomenclature of 'protestants' and 'invading IE celtic tribes' in spain.
This fight is underlined by the primordial chasm between 'deva worshipping' <b>IE's</b> and the Danava types who worship the mother Goddess.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->You are speculating on several accounts:
(1) There is no indication of AIT having ever happened.
(2) Celts have by now long been claimed as being IE people for speaking languages of the IE family. (That they are now found to have mostly Basque ancestry, as also most of the English, is another matter.)
(3) It is a very recent suggestion (originally noticed it in New Agey and 'feminist' circles) that there must have been a clash between followers of a Mother Goddess and some patriarchical blue-green-eyed oryans worshipping supposedly all-male Devas. It is unfounded. (More so when even the oryans are as yet unfounded.)
In the Indian situation it has never been <i>either</i> male <i>or</i> female. Most Devas are referred to as having wives. You have shlokas in the Vedas to Usha wife of Surya, for instance. The word Devi is the natural female counterpart of the word Deva.
And we can extend the situation even to neighbouring Iran. Anahita, for instance, is an ancient Persian Goddess of the Iranian Pantheon.
Even <i>were</i> I to consider the IE hypothesis, each 'IE population' has always had female and male deities like every human population except the monotheists:
Germanic people (eg. Freya), Celts (see here for male and female deities), Greeks and Romans (Jupiter, Juno for example). And I am certain the same case can be made for the various Eastern-European peoples and Russians.