05-22-2007, 07:17 PM
Ajatshatru!! You have been talking with juvenile neo sikhs who have no clue of sikhi.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I must mention one more thing hereâ¦Some Sikhs think of Bhindrawalla as their 11th Guru but not many Sikhs even acknowledge the sacrifice of Banda Bahadur. Guru Gobind requested Banda Bahadur (who was a Hindu Brahmin) to continue the fight against Muslims after Guru Gobind Singh took Sanyaas. Banda Bahadur was one of the best warriors ever known and terrorized Muslim goons so much that Muslims used to pee in their pants just hearing his name. He was eventually betrayed by Sundari, wife of Guru Gobind Singh, to the Mughals (this can be verified by history books). Even when he was caught and tortured, he refused to convert to Islam and he was perhaps more brave than any Sikh in history.
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This is totally wrong!! Banda Bahadur was a Dogra Khatri from Jammu region who had became ascetic after he killed a pregnant doe and settled at Nander (Maharashtra). Guru Gobind Singh after sacrifice of his four sons, his parents was going down towards South to preach Sikhi when he visited Bairagi (ascetic). Bairagi immediately became "Banda" of Guru Banda means "Slave" and Guru Gobind Singh told him to become a real Kshtriya and forget his asceticism., Guru reminded him of his Dharm. Then... Guru Gobind Singh gave him letters (hukamnama) as well as his five distinct arrows along with five sikhs (one was Bhai Binod Singh descendant of third guru Guru Amardas, another was Baj Singh who both became governors of Sarhind and Lohgarh later)
Sikhs acknowledge Banda just like Sikhs acknowledge Bhai Kapur Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia, Kirpa Singh, Jassa Singh Ramgarhia, and so forth...
Banda defeated Mughals at Sarhind and occupied all the area between Lahore and Delhi for almost 6 years.
But... the trouble happened when Banda brought back some of his "vaishavism" back to Sikhi.. at this time Sikhs were meat eaters... (many gurdwaras outside of Punjab do serve meat away from the normal langar as they continued their tradition from the Gurus time).. Banda told them to be vegetarians. Banda became as huge as Guru Gobind Singh and his people started calling themselves as "Bandai Khalsa" as oppose to the "Tatva Khalsa" i.e. "real khalsa".
Then Mughals pooled their resources from all over India (Khalsa was only created in 1699 and this is 1712-15 we are talking about) i.e. 10-13 years after Khalsa was created. Mughals cornered Sikhs at Gurdas Nangal (gurdaspur) Many Sikhs ran away but surprisingly Banda Bahadur and 700 Sikhs surrendered to Mughals.. All 700 were beheaded at Delhi. I am not sure why you are blaming Mata Sundari? Mata Sundari adopted an orphan (Jassa Singh Ahluwalia) as all her sons were dead. Jassa Singh Ahluwali later became Jathedar of Akal Takht and was responsible for surrender of Mughals at Delhi as well as under him all Gurudwaras at delhi were created.
Meanwhile just after the beheading of Banda Bahadur there was a big rift among Sikhs!! about half of the Sikhs didn't believe that the Book could be the guru and they started calling themselves as "Bandai Khalsa" while rest called themselves "Tatva Khalsa". So to solve this problem a Sarbatt Khalsa (whole congregation of Khalsa) was declared by Bhai Mani Singh (who was also murdered by Mughals at Lahore later) in around 1718 A.D. Then.. at this Sarbatt Khalsa there were competitions among Banda and Tatva Khalsa Sikhs (Wrestling, riding, etc)... both were equal... Banda Singh Bahadur had actually replaced the salutation "waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh" with "Fateh Darshan"... Bhai Mani Singh who was Jathedar of Akal Takht and five choosen Singhs decided one last time to do this... He wrote on one paper "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh" and "Fateh Darshan" on another!! then he immersed his hands in the Sarovar releasing them at the same time... the paper with "Waheguru" came up first and thus all Bandai Khalsa then threw their lot with Tatva Khalsa and rift was stopped.
Any person who believe that Bhindrenwale or anybody else is a Guru except for Guru Granth Sahib is automatically not a Sikh. I can't believe that any real Sikh will ask somebody to bow in front of a picture. Even when you see all these television serials where people bow in front of a picture of Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh are actually against the teachings of Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh.
... and now regarding 1857.... Ranjit Singh died in 1839... Sikhs were defeated by British in 1849 in a series of five battles and Punjab was the last province to fall!! and the soldiers who British had employed were 100% Bengali/Bihari poorbia Soldiers. All the other kingdoms in India were already under British protection!! from awadh to Hyderabad to Jhansi to Patiala, Nabha, Jind. Ranjit Singh's kingdom was the last one to fall in 1839..
Then in 1857... when British employed the Sikh disbanded army to stop the Sepoy rebellion!!!! so Sikhs saw that as an oppurtunity to get back at Bengali/Biharis who have been serving British from centuries and then suddenly decided to rebel against their masters!! Sikhs saw it as a last attempt for Mughals to come back to Delhi's throne and not as a First battle of Independence.
You should apologise about your comment about Mata Sundari she never had anything to do with Banda Singh Bahadur..
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I must mention one more thing hereâ¦Some Sikhs think of Bhindrawalla as their 11th Guru but not many Sikhs even acknowledge the sacrifice of Banda Bahadur. Guru Gobind requested Banda Bahadur (who was a Hindu Brahmin) to continue the fight against Muslims after Guru Gobind Singh took Sanyaas. Banda Bahadur was one of the best warriors ever known and terrorized Muslim goons so much that Muslims used to pee in their pants just hearing his name. He was eventually betrayed by Sundari, wife of Guru Gobind Singh, to the Mughals (this can be verified by history books). Even when he was caught and tortured, he refused to convert to Islam and he was perhaps more brave than any Sikh in history.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is totally wrong!! Banda Bahadur was a Dogra Khatri from Jammu region who had became ascetic after he killed a pregnant doe and settled at Nander (Maharashtra). Guru Gobind Singh after sacrifice of his four sons, his parents was going down towards South to preach Sikhi when he visited Bairagi (ascetic). Bairagi immediately became "Banda" of Guru Banda means "Slave" and Guru Gobind Singh told him to become a real Kshtriya and forget his asceticism., Guru reminded him of his Dharm. Then... Guru Gobind Singh gave him letters (hukamnama) as well as his five distinct arrows along with five sikhs (one was Bhai Binod Singh descendant of third guru Guru Amardas, another was Baj Singh who both became governors of Sarhind and Lohgarh later)
Sikhs acknowledge Banda just like Sikhs acknowledge Bhai Kapur Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia, Kirpa Singh, Jassa Singh Ramgarhia, and so forth...
Banda defeated Mughals at Sarhind and occupied all the area between Lahore and Delhi for almost 6 years.
But... the trouble happened when Banda brought back some of his "vaishavism" back to Sikhi.. at this time Sikhs were meat eaters... (many gurdwaras outside of Punjab do serve meat away from the normal langar as they continued their tradition from the Gurus time).. Banda told them to be vegetarians. Banda became as huge as Guru Gobind Singh and his people started calling themselves as "Bandai Khalsa" as oppose to the "Tatva Khalsa" i.e. "real khalsa".
Then Mughals pooled their resources from all over India (Khalsa was only created in 1699 and this is 1712-15 we are talking about) i.e. 10-13 years after Khalsa was created. Mughals cornered Sikhs at Gurdas Nangal (gurdaspur) Many Sikhs ran away but surprisingly Banda Bahadur and 700 Sikhs surrendered to Mughals.. All 700 were beheaded at Delhi. I am not sure why you are blaming Mata Sundari? Mata Sundari adopted an orphan (Jassa Singh Ahluwalia) as all her sons were dead. Jassa Singh Ahluwali later became Jathedar of Akal Takht and was responsible for surrender of Mughals at Delhi as well as under him all Gurudwaras at delhi were created.
Meanwhile just after the beheading of Banda Bahadur there was a big rift among Sikhs!! about half of the Sikhs didn't believe that the Book could be the guru and they started calling themselves as "Bandai Khalsa" while rest called themselves "Tatva Khalsa". So to solve this problem a Sarbatt Khalsa (whole congregation of Khalsa) was declared by Bhai Mani Singh (who was also murdered by Mughals at Lahore later) in around 1718 A.D. Then.. at this Sarbatt Khalsa there were competitions among Banda and Tatva Khalsa Sikhs (Wrestling, riding, etc)... both were equal... Banda Singh Bahadur had actually replaced the salutation "waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh" with "Fateh Darshan"... Bhai Mani Singh who was Jathedar of Akal Takht and five choosen Singhs decided one last time to do this... He wrote on one paper "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh" and "Fateh Darshan" on another!! then he immersed his hands in the Sarovar releasing them at the same time... the paper with "Waheguru" came up first and thus all Bandai Khalsa then threw their lot with Tatva Khalsa and rift was stopped.
Any person who believe that Bhindrenwale or anybody else is a Guru except for Guru Granth Sahib is automatically not a Sikh. I can't believe that any real Sikh will ask somebody to bow in front of a picture. Even when you see all these television serials where people bow in front of a picture of Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh are actually against the teachings of Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh.
... and now regarding 1857.... Ranjit Singh died in 1839... Sikhs were defeated by British in 1849 in a series of five battles and Punjab was the last province to fall!! and the soldiers who British had employed were 100% Bengali/Bihari poorbia Soldiers. All the other kingdoms in India were already under British protection!! from awadh to Hyderabad to Jhansi to Patiala, Nabha, Jind. Ranjit Singh's kingdom was the last one to fall in 1839..
Then in 1857... when British employed the Sikh disbanded army to stop the Sepoy rebellion!!!! so Sikhs saw that as an oppurtunity to get back at Bengali/Biharis who have been serving British from centuries and then suddenly decided to rebel against their masters!! Sikhs saw it as a last attempt for Mughals to come back to Delhi's throne and not as a First battle of Independence.
You should apologise about your comment about Mata Sundari she never had anything to do with Banda Singh Bahadur..