05-29-2007, 07:30 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> By Bodhi..
What is the precise scriptural position on meat-eating in Sri Guru Granth? (I am not asking about common understanding or practice, but actual scriptural reference.) <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well.. since SGGS has bani of many Bhakats you can proove/disapprove both sides. Sri Guru Nanak Dev himself says in SGGS that people who argue over food are fools. In other words Guru Nanak dev says that eating meat or not meat will not make you good/bad person. According to one popular folklore., Guru Nanak dev actually cooked meat at Kurukshetra and offered it to all Sadhus and his Sikhs. While Saint Kabir was strict vegetarian and his bani about vegetarianism is everywhere in SGGS. The bani of Third Guru Sri Guru Amardas ji also has hints of vegetarianism. The Fifth guru Sri Guru Arjan dev ji (who has the most bani in SGGS) also has hints of vegetarianism.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You had mentioned in another thread (DSS) that Langars used to serve meat at one time? Is that backed up by any historic documentation? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a very common knowledge., In a time of distress., Sikhs have often eaten meat. When Banda Bahadur was sieged at Gurdas Nangal (despite being a vaishanav) for over 10 months, his followers ate their horses.
The Sixth Guru., Sri Guru Hargobind ji who after martyrdom of his father (fifth guru Sri Guru Arjan dev ji at Lahore) told his followers to start wearing armaments, riding horses and be sporty. He organized many hunts as well as riding competition. The first ever skirmish between the Sikhs and Mughal emperor Jahangir was when Jahangir was hunting outside of Lahore while Sikhs under Guru Hargobind ji were also hunting at the same area., both parties clashed over some reason and Jahangir had to take flight. A month later when Guru Hargobind's daughter was to be married Jahangir sent 2000 cavalry under Painde Khan to Amritsar. Guru Hargobind defended Amritsar from Lohgarh fort. There were 3-4 more battles and at last Guru was arrersted and jailed at Gwalior along with 52 other Hindu Rajas from all over India (Naqshbandi muslims were gaining power in the court of Jahangir through his wife).
Then it is also said that when Guru Gobind Singh (after matrydom of his sons, father and mother) was at Nander (Maharashtra) he visited a renowned Bairagi. Banda Bairagi (as was later called) use to drink goat milk, Guru and his sikhs went to his hut, slaughtered goats and start cooking them., when Banda returned he became very angry (being a vaishnav) but when he saw Guru Gobind Singh he became quiet and on being asked by guru he replied that "I am your Banda" Banda means Slave. Thus Guru Gobind Singh told him that Kshtriya's dharm is not to be ascetic vaishanav but fighting for justice.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Also what is it about Jhatka killing being sanctioned? Also any records about the eating preferances of the 10 Gurus? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is evidence of little bit of meat eating but most of the Sikh Gurus were vegetarians. Some Rahitnama says that Sikhs can eat Jhatka meat (any meat that is sacrificed in the name of God is actually not allowed)., but on the whole the Sikhs have amended Rahitnama and declared that Khalsa Sikhs are 100% pure vegetarians while Keshdhari Sikhs (who have not taken a vow) can eat meat.
Guru Gobind Singh specifically told his Sikhs that in case you need to eat a meat, make sure it is a Jhatka (during many sieges any horses of goats that were sacrificed were Jhatka). All langar everywhere in the world is suppose to be totally vegetarian (no eggs either)
Do you know Daler Mahndi? He belongs to a Sect called "Bhatra Sikhs" These sikhs have gurudwaras mostly in Patna (Bihar) area where they have prepare goat meat on the side. They will call up just before langar telling everybody that vegetarians remain inside while those who want "Maha Prasad" can come outside or in the separate building.
What is the precise scriptural position on meat-eating in Sri Guru Granth? (I am not asking about common understanding or practice, but actual scriptural reference.) <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well.. since SGGS has bani of many Bhakats you can proove/disapprove both sides. Sri Guru Nanak Dev himself says in SGGS that people who argue over food are fools. In other words Guru Nanak dev says that eating meat or not meat will not make you good/bad person. According to one popular folklore., Guru Nanak dev actually cooked meat at Kurukshetra and offered it to all Sadhus and his Sikhs. While Saint Kabir was strict vegetarian and his bani about vegetarianism is everywhere in SGGS. The bani of Third Guru Sri Guru Amardas ji also has hints of vegetarianism. The Fifth guru Sri Guru Arjan dev ji (who has the most bani in SGGS) also has hints of vegetarianism.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You had mentioned in another thread (DSS) that Langars used to serve meat at one time? Is that backed up by any historic documentation? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a very common knowledge., In a time of distress., Sikhs have often eaten meat. When Banda Bahadur was sieged at Gurdas Nangal (despite being a vaishanav) for over 10 months, his followers ate their horses.
The Sixth Guru., Sri Guru Hargobind ji who after martyrdom of his father (fifth guru Sri Guru Arjan dev ji at Lahore) told his followers to start wearing armaments, riding horses and be sporty. He organized many hunts as well as riding competition. The first ever skirmish between the Sikhs and Mughal emperor Jahangir was when Jahangir was hunting outside of Lahore while Sikhs under Guru Hargobind ji were also hunting at the same area., both parties clashed over some reason and Jahangir had to take flight. A month later when Guru Hargobind's daughter was to be married Jahangir sent 2000 cavalry under Painde Khan to Amritsar. Guru Hargobind defended Amritsar from Lohgarh fort. There were 3-4 more battles and at last Guru was arrersted and jailed at Gwalior along with 52 other Hindu Rajas from all over India (Naqshbandi muslims were gaining power in the court of Jahangir through his wife).
Then it is also said that when Guru Gobind Singh (after matrydom of his sons, father and mother) was at Nander (Maharashtra) he visited a renowned Bairagi. Banda Bairagi (as was later called) use to drink goat milk, Guru and his sikhs went to his hut, slaughtered goats and start cooking them., when Banda returned he became very angry (being a vaishnav) but when he saw Guru Gobind Singh he became quiet and on being asked by guru he replied that "I am your Banda" Banda means Slave. Thus Guru Gobind Singh told him that Kshtriya's dharm is not to be ascetic vaishanav but fighting for justice.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Also what is it about Jhatka killing being sanctioned? Also any records about the eating preferances of the 10 Gurus? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is evidence of little bit of meat eating but most of the Sikh Gurus were vegetarians. Some Rahitnama says that Sikhs can eat Jhatka meat (any meat that is sacrificed in the name of God is actually not allowed)., but on the whole the Sikhs have amended Rahitnama and declared that Khalsa Sikhs are 100% pure vegetarians while Keshdhari Sikhs (who have not taken a vow) can eat meat.
Guru Gobind Singh specifically told his Sikhs that in case you need to eat a meat, make sure it is a Jhatka (during many sieges any horses of goats that were sacrificed were Jhatka). All langar everywhere in the world is suppose to be totally vegetarian (no eggs either)
Do you know Daler Mahndi? He belongs to a Sect called "Bhatra Sikhs" These sikhs have gurudwaras mostly in Patna (Bihar) area where they have prepare goat meat on the side. They will call up just before langar telling everybody that vegetarians remain inside while those who want "Maha Prasad" can come outside or in the separate building.