06-03-2007, 10:12 PM
this is same old line of "problem haplotype" with "multiple independent origins". frankly it is getting very tiring and predictable. Oppenheimer states the problem of the back-to-front distribution of father (Ruslan-R1b) and son (M17) can only be explained by an ice age intervention and differential time depth (see below). R2 anchors these haplos specifically within South asia.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Unlike his son M17, Ruslan does not lurk at the threshold of Eastern Europe. In fact he is very much commoner in the west, reaching 86 per cent in the Basques and similar... <b>This back-to-front distribution of father and son suggests that the former may have arrived in Europe earlier. </b> As we shall see in chapter 6, <b>this can be explained by the ice age. </b><b>Suffice it to say here that although M17 may be a relative newcomer to Europe, </b>his father Ruslan is possibly the strongest male marker line for the original Early Upper Paleolithic invasion of western Europe form the east around 33,000 years ago. Between them, this father and son team account for 50 per cent of extant male lines today.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not only r2 but also P:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Yet<b> Ruslan's genetic father P,</b> whom I shall call Polo...,<b> is confined to India, pakistan, Central Asia, and America. </b>Study of the geographical distribution and the diversity of genetic branches and stems again suggests that Ruslan, along with his son M17, arose early in South Asia, somewhere near India and subsequently spread.....<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so there you have it. K (Krishna), P, and R2, the entire gamut of beatified progenitors of M17, have a distribution centering around India. To placate Semino, Oppenheimer goes with an older age for M17 but he clearly takes the pain to mention the lower estimates and chastise Semino:
"Semino and colleagues <span style='color:blue'>dispense with genetic dating </span>and have both M17 and his father, M173, as part of an archeologically dated Paleolithic movement from the east to west 30,000 years ago."
Clearly this is in conflict with his own opinion that there was a time gap in the migration events of 173 and 17: "Suffice it to say here that although M17 may be a relative newcomer to Europe, [/B]his father Ruslan is possibly the strongest male marker line for the original Early Upper Paleolithic invasion of western Europe form the east around 33,000 years ago."
again he takes the pains to mention:
footnote 34 p 393 "other methods of calculation yield much lower estimates." - concerning M17.
footnote 35 p 393 " Quintana-Murci et al .. tentatively suggests that the expansion into Europe started only around 5,000 years ago with the advent of farming." - concerning M17.
footnote 11 p 415 "Later post-glacial expansions into that region could have the same effect - Semino et al.." - concerning M17 in Carpathian region.
Finally, if all this is not evident for you, see appendix 2: The sons of Adam
R1a1b and R1a1c are simply not present in WEurasia while they are included in diverusty profile of C Asia/South Asia
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Unlike his son M17, Ruslan does not lurk at the threshold of Eastern Europe. In fact he is very much commoner in the west, reaching 86 per cent in the Basques and similar... <b>This back-to-front distribution of father and son suggests that the former may have arrived in Europe earlier. </b> As we shall see in chapter 6, <b>this can be explained by the ice age. </b><b>Suffice it to say here that although M17 may be a relative newcomer to Europe, </b>his father Ruslan is possibly the strongest male marker line for the original Early Upper Paleolithic invasion of western Europe form the east around 33,000 years ago. Between them, this father and son team account for 50 per cent of extant male lines today.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not only r2 but also P:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Yet<b> Ruslan's genetic father P,</b> whom I shall call Polo...,<b> is confined to India, pakistan, Central Asia, and America. </b>Study of the geographical distribution and the diversity of genetic branches and stems again suggests that Ruslan, along with his son M17, arose early in South Asia, somewhere near India and subsequently spread.....<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so there you have it. K (Krishna), P, and R2, the entire gamut of beatified progenitors of M17, have a distribution centering around India. To placate Semino, Oppenheimer goes with an older age for M17 but he clearly takes the pain to mention the lower estimates and chastise Semino:
"Semino and colleagues <span style='color:blue'>dispense with genetic dating </span>and have both M17 and his father, M173, as part of an archeologically dated Paleolithic movement from the east to west 30,000 years ago."
Clearly this is in conflict with his own opinion that there was a time gap in the migration events of 173 and 17: "Suffice it to say here that although M17 may be a relative newcomer to Europe, [/B]his father Ruslan is possibly the strongest male marker line for the original Early Upper Paleolithic invasion of western Europe form the east around 33,000 years ago."
again he takes the pains to mention:
footnote 34 p 393 "other methods of calculation yield much lower estimates." - concerning M17.
footnote 35 p 393 " Quintana-Murci et al .. tentatively suggests that the expansion into Europe started only around 5,000 years ago with the advent of farming." - concerning M17.
footnote 11 p 415 "Later post-glacial expansions into that region could have the same effect - Semino et al.." - concerning M17 in Carpathian region.
Finally, if all this is not evident for you, see appendix 2: The sons of Adam
R1a1b and R1a1c are simply not present in WEurasia while they are included in diverusty profile of C Asia/South Asia