<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+Sep 18 2007, 09:12 PM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ Sep 18 2007, 09:12 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Indra lives in Svarga in the clouds around Mt. Meru. <b>Deceased warriors go to his hall after death</b>, where they live without sadness, pain or fear. They watch the Apsaras and the Gandharvas dance, and play games. The gods of the elements, celestial sages, great kings and warriors enrich his court.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Does anyone know the name of this hall? Sounds similar to Valhalla (hall of Odin in Norse mythology, where dead warriors go after fighting gloriously and being slain in battle.[right][snapback]73307[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't know about any hall in Svargam - although the Swamy who wrote the above probably knows what he is talking about. All I know of is that Indra is king of Swargam and that Kshatriyas who die in the battlefield are assured of Swargam. For example, it's something mentioned often enough in the Mahabharatam. And at the end of the epic, you can find Duryodhana and the other Kauravas in Swargam along with everyone else.
As for finding parallels with Norse traditions - you won't be the first to infer that. It's been discussed forever among the indologicals of yesteryear (and probably today's indologicals too). However, I am surprised they don't see any striking "Oryan parallels" in Native American tradition where the dead warriors go to join all their heroes and elders gathered at the Great Council Fire in their afterlife. See for instance the closing speech in the film 'The Last of the Mohicans' (Michael Mann's 90s version). The Mohican Chingachcook and his adopted son perform the death rites for his biological son who passed away young, and Chingachcook then talks about how his son, the warrior, has gone to that Great Council Fire (presided over by the Grand Spirit).
You will actually find that such beliefs prevail in many/most places where there is a warrior tradition and where a warrior lifestyle is respected.
(We may safely ignore any pathetic suggestions on how Leif Erikson or the other Vikings that landed in America could/must have introduced this and aught else that vaguely corresponds to anything copyrighted as "Indo-European". But perhaps WitSSel will offer this by way of excuse soon?)
As for the grand IE mythology/religion linking the alleged Oryans left and right - I just posted this elsewhere. But repeating the relevant bits:
http://sarasvati95.googlepages.com/aryanmythology.pdf
<b>Aryan Mythology as Science and Ideology"</b> by Stefan Arvidsson (who also wrote "Aryan Idols")
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"Aryan Mythology as Science and Ideology" by Stefan Arvidsson (who also wrote that book "Aryan Idols" which Rajesh_G had brought to our attention).
Since the 1980s there has been a heated debate about whether or not the influential theories of George Dumezil have been affected by ideological motives. Critics of Dumezil have argued that Dumezil's ideas about the unique structure of Indo-European mythology were governed by his right-wing sympathies and his romantic view of ancient Indo-Europen - that is, "Aryan" - peoples. This article is meant as a background to that debate. By discussing the historical relationships between the scholarly and the political interest in Aryan religion, I hope to shed light on the intricate but important work of identifying ideological components in the history of religious studies.
Let us begin by looking into one of the most successful <b>attempts to create a religion for "the Indo-European race"</b>: the sounds, visions, movements, and messages of the "total art" of Richard Wagner (1813-1883).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->It ends with:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It has for good reasons been suggested that the "tripartite ideology" of the Aryans/Indo-Europeans owes its origins as much to the politics of fascist Italy, which Dumezil admired, as to the Vedas or the Eddas.23 in his scholarly work Dumezil seems to have tried to ground in nature - with the help of <b>his theory</b> about the Indo-Europeans' unique
order of producers, warriors, and sovereigns - the fascist dream about an integrated, hierarchical society consisting of workers, soldiers, and leaders. Even the division of "the sovereign function" into two distinct parts - the power of magic and the power fo legislation - which, <b>according to Dumezil</b> is a typical Indo-European trait, might, if we are to believe the historian of religions Bruce Lincoln, be nothing but a reflection of Dumezil's enthusiasm for Mussolini's decision not to crush the magical power flowing from the Vatican but instead to reach an agreement about the distribution of power (the Lateran treaty) (Lincoln 1997).
POSTSCRIPT
As we have seen, the scientific study of Indo-European mythology has been permeated with different ideologies (Christian liberalism, romanticism, fascism, and so forth). <b>Today it is disputed whether or not the downfall of the Third Reich brought about a sobering among scholars working with "Aryan" religions</b>; the discussion of Dumezil's Indo-European mythology, his political sympathies, and their impact on his scholarly works, which historians of religion have lauded as some of the best research the discipline has produced, is still not closed. <b>Perhaps it will lead to the <i>ragnarok</i> (twilight of the Gods) of the concept of Aryan/Indo-European mythology.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Lincoln already waved goodbye to 'IE religion/mythology'. Good riddens.
As for finding parallels with Norse traditions - you won't be the first to infer that. It's been discussed forever among the indologicals of yesteryear (and probably today's indologicals too). However, I am surprised they don't see any striking "Oryan parallels" in Native American tradition where the dead warriors go to join all their heroes and elders gathered at the Great Council Fire in their afterlife. See for instance the closing speech in the film 'The Last of the Mohicans' (Michael Mann's 90s version). The Mohican Chingachcook and his adopted son perform the death rites for his biological son who passed away young, and Chingachcook then talks about how his son, the warrior, has gone to that Great Council Fire (presided over by the Grand Spirit).
You will actually find that such beliefs prevail in many/most places where there is a warrior tradition and where a warrior lifestyle is respected.
(We may safely ignore any pathetic suggestions on how Leif Erikson or the other Vikings that landed in America could/must have introduced this and aught else that vaguely corresponds to anything copyrighted as "Indo-European". But perhaps WitSSel will offer this by way of excuse soon?)
As for the grand IE mythology/religion linking the alleged Oryans left and right - I just posted this elsewhere. But repeating the relevant bits:
http://sarasvati95.googlepages.com/aryanmythology.pdf
<b>Aryan Mythology as Science and Ideology"</b> by Stefan Arvidsson (who also wrote "Aryan Idols")
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"Aryan Mythology as Science and Ideology" by Stefan Arvidsson (who also wrote that book "Aryan Idols" which Rajesh_G had brought to our attention).
Since the 1980s there has been a heated debate about whether or not the influential theories of George Dumezil have been affected by ideological motives. Critics of Dumezil have argued that Dumezil's ideas about the unique structure of Indo-European mythology were governed by his right-wing sympathies and his romantic view of ancient Indo-Europen - that is, "Aryan" - peoples. This article is meant as a background to that debate. By discussing the historical relationships between the scholarly and the political interest in Aryan religion, I hope to shed light on the intricate but important work of identifying ideological components in the history of religious studies.
Let us begin by looking into one of the most successful <b>attempts to create a religion for "the Indo-European race"</b>: the sounds, visions, movements, and messages of the "total art" of Richard Wagner (1813-1883).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->It ends with:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It has for good reasons been suggested that the "tripartite ideology" of the Aryans/Indo-Europeans owes its origins as much to the politics of fascist Italy, which Dumezil admired, as to the Vedas or the Eddas.23 in his scholarly work Dumezil seems to have tried to ground in nature - with the help of <b>his theory</b> about the Indo-Europeans' unique
order of producers, warriors, and sovereigns - the fascist dream about an integrated, hierarchical society consisting of workers, soldiers, and leaders. Even the division of "the sovereign function" into two distinct parts - the power of magic and the power fo legislation - which, <b>according to Dumezil</b> is a typical Indo-European trait, might, if we are to believe the historian of religions Bruce Lincoln, be nothing but a reflection of Dumezil's enthusiasm for Mussolini's decision not to crush the magical power flowing from the Vatican but instead to reach an agreement about the distribution of power (the Lateran treaty) (Lincoln 1997).
POSTSCRIPT
As we have seen, the scientific study of Indo-European mythology has been permeated with different ideologies (Christian liberalism, romanticism, fascism, and so forth). <b>Today it is disputed whether or not the downfall of the Third Reich brought about a sobering among scholars working with "Aryan" religions</b>; the discussion of Dumezil's Indo-European mythology, his political sympathies, and their impact on his scholarly works, which historians of religion have lauded as some of the best research the discipline has produced, is still not closed. <b>Perhaps it will lead to the <i>ragnarok</i> (twilight of the Gods) of the concept of Aryan/Indo-European mythology.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Lincoln already waved goodbye to 'IE religion/mythology'. Good riddens.