11-12-2007, 11:08 PM
X-Posted...
<!--QuoteBegin-"ramana"+-->QUOTE("ramana")<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-"Acharya"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Acharya")<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-"asprinzl"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("asprinzl")<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Now we all know how intimate the Pak military is with the Saudi Barbarian royalty and I strongly believe that Saudi's do pull a lot of strings on behalf of Pak-Is-Satanis in both the White House and State Department.Â
That being the case can we seriously think the USA will stop the F-16 deliveries? There is a higher chance Pinky would pose nude in Playboy magazine than USA stopping deliveries of F-16s. Despite overwhelming evidence of ISI shenaniganism, Pak duplicity, nuke black markets and terror support and Indian opposition, the USA went a head and openned the gates for F-16 pipeline on top of designating MNNA status.
While it was clear as day and night that the F-16 is basically not much of use in war against terrorists. Condi's words to the contrary, after a couple of months of delay, the deliveries would continue. So would the money pipeline.
Avram<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
US Pakistan relationship is between Pentagon and Pakistan ARMY relationship. Every thing else including civil society is subservient to it.
No matter what; this relationship is a continuation of the British policy from 1900 to cultivate relationship with Punjabi Mussalmans. This is a race relationship between Anglo American with Punjabi Mussalmans<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need to understand the larger historical factors. In order to remove the ghost of Islamic military threat to Europe, Ottomon Turkey had to be neutralized and neutered. Even this threat has ancient links to the pre-Islamic Persians. The way this neutralization was achieved was through the courting of Arabs under Ottomon rule. However Arabs do not represent a large demographic in the ummah. And oil was not discovered in Arabia till later. This is where the Pakjabi Mulims come into picture. They are large ~ 70 Million, they are pliable to threats, they also are extremely clannish(the biradari system is how they got converted in teh first place) and will listen to the leaders. Edmund Blunt outlines the strategy in his old 1880s book on the need to cultivate the "Punjabi Mussalman" in order for the Queen (read West) to be in dominance over the Islamic world. Read of the previous attempts to Anglicize the Aga Khan etc. These futile attempts were given up once the demographic breakdown of the ummah was made. Aga Khanis are miniscule in number. So there you see the historical basis for supporting the twin towers of Islamic terrorism- KSA and TSP.
Further there is a need to understand the nature of Islamic "Zabardasti" rule in the region constituting West Pakistan. The head of the state was a Sultan, later Shah. The Provinces (Subah) and Districts (Zilla) had a three fold authority. There was the Subedar (military) commander, the revenue collector(usually a Hindu) and the Qazi(magistrate). The Subedar was always at the head of this triumvirate and had the military force to back his authority. Source: Irfan Habib in booklet on "Medieval India"
During British rule, the Collector/District Magistrate office was combined and a cantonment located in almost every district to provide back-up force. (Source: Hugh Tinker- India & Pakistan- A Political Analysis) In the Princely states the subedar became the daroga or police chief while the head was the Nawab, Wali or some such title..
My point is that military force was always required to administer these 'badlands' as the folks are not yet into even the 18th century let alone the Modern age. This is why theories of Djinn power etc surface. Westphalian state construct is too advanced for them. Even if there was no Partition, India would have to have military primacy in that region. This region was never integrated into sub-continental India from the Sultanate period as the central authority was expanding into India and spent itself when the British took over. This need for military force as a factor for development is not a new thing. Before the wild West was settled the US Army was running the show by stationing the troops and buliding the frontier forts settlements in the 19th century. It is only just before WWI that the US west was calm.
Pakistan is modern Islamic state with a small "m" implying it has put on an updated mask to put on a facade of being current. It is not a capital "M" which implies a whole set of ideologies- enlightenment, positivism and so on and so forth.
In the past the mask would drop ocassionally but after 1978 under Zia the mask is increasingly being cracked or broken off revealing the ugly truth. The Western press is now slowly realizing but the govts are still committed to the situation. As more Western people (US mainly) realize the truth and the "experts" are unfrocked for the charlatans they are, there is a chance that people will demand more accountability from their representatives in DC and that could lead to less support for this military "zabardasti" rule in TSP. Right now the US has only the bludgeon or bribe as a policy tool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-"ramana"+-->QUOTE("ramana")<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-"Acharya"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Acharya")<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-"asprinzl"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("asprinzl")<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Now we all know how intimate the Pak military is with the Saudi Barbarian royalty and I strongly believe that Saudi's do pull a lot of strings on behalf of Pak-Is-Satanis in both the White House and State Department.Â
That being the case can we seriously think the USA will stop the F-16 deliveries? There is a higher chance Pinky would pose nude in Playboy magazine than USA stopping deliveries of F-16s. Despite overwhelming evidence of ISI shenaniganism, Pak duplicity, nuke black markets and terror support and Indian opposition, the USA went a head and openned the gates for F-16 pipeline on top of designating MNNA status.
While it was clear as day and night that the F-16 is basically not much of use in war against terrorists. Condi's words to the contrary, after a couple of months of delay, the deliveries would continue. So would the money pipeline.
Avram<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
US Pakistan relationship is between Pentagon and Pakistan ARMY relationship. Every thing else including civil society is subservient to it.
No matter what; this relationship is a continuation of the British policy from 1900 to cultivate relationship with Punjabi Mussalmans. This is a race relationship between Anglo American with Punjabi Mussalmans<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need to understand the larger historical factors. In order to remove the ghost of Islamic military threat to Europe, Ottomon Turkey had to be neutralized and neutered. Even this threat has ancient links to the pre-Islamic Persians. The way this neutralization was achieved was through the courting of Arabs under Ottomon rule. However Arabs do not represent a large demographic in the ummah. And oil was not discovered in Arabia till later. This is where the Pakjabi Mulims come into picture. They are large ~ 70 Million, they are pliable to threats, they also are extremely clannish(the biradari system is how they got converted in teh first place) and will listen to the leaders. Edmund Blunt outlines the strategy in his old 1880s book on the need to cultivate the "Punjabi Mussalman" in order for the Queen (read West) to be in dominance over the Islamic world. Read of the previous attempts to Anglicize the Aga Khan etc. These futile attempts were given up once the demographic breakdown of the ummah was made. Aga Khanis are miniscule in number. So there you see the historical basis for supporting the twin towers of Islamic terrorism- KSA and TSP.
Further there is a need to understand the nature of Islamic "Zabardasti" rule in the region constituting West Pakistan. The head of the state was a Sultan, later Shah. The Provinces (Subah) and Districts (Zilla) had a three fold authority. There was the Subedar (military) commander, the revenue collector(usually a Hindu) and the Qazi(magistrate). The Subedar was always at the head of this triumvirate and had the military force to back his authority. Source: Irfan Habib in booklet on "Medieval India"
During British rule, the Collector/District Magistrate office was combined and a cantonment located in almost every district to provide back-up force. (Source: Hugh Tinker- India & Pakistan- A Political Analysis) In the Princely states the subedar became the daroga or police chief while the head was the Nawab, Wali or some such title..
My point is that military force was always required to administer these 'badlands' as the folks are not yet into even the 18th century let alone the Modern age. This is why theories of Djinn power etc surface. Westphalian state construct is too advanced for them. Even if there was no Partition, India would have to have military primacy in that region. This region was never integrated into sub-continental India from the Sultanate period as the central authority was expanding into India and spent itself when the British took over. This need for military force as a factor for development is not a new thing. Before the wild West was settled the US Army was running the show by stationing the troops and buliding the frontier forts settlements in the 19th century. It is only just before WWI that the US west was calm.
Pakistan is modern Islamic state with a small "m" implying it has put on an updated mask to put on a facade of being current. It is not a capital "M" which implies a whole set of ideologies- enlightenment, positivism and so on and so forth.
In the past the mask would drop ocassionally but after 1978 under Zia the mask is increasingly being cracked or broken off revealing the ugly truth. The Western press is now slowly realizing but the govts are still committed to the situation. As more Western people (US mainly) realize the truth and the "experts" are unfrocked for the charlatans they are, there is a chance that people will demand more accountability from their representatives in DC and that could lead to less support for this military "zabardasti" rule in TSP. Right now the US has only the bludgeon or bribe as a policy tool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->