11-17-2007, 01:57 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+Nov 16 2007, 09:03 PM-->QUOTE(Shambhu @ Nov 16 2007, 09:03 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Can anyone give me the exact citation for things like "If your father is against me, kill him" said by Jesus.
Thanks..
[right][snapback]75308[/snapback][/right]
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You might want to check out the following website, which has compiled most of the (in)famous quotes of jesus on family, marriage, treatment of slaves, etc. Each of the quotes are classified according to subject matter.
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical...f_jesus.html#53
For example, under Egoism, the website states:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Egotism</b>
<b>If Jesus was not God, but merely the ideal man, his estimate of himself was excessive. In addition to his remarks already quoted there are many other instances of an exaggerated ego.</b>
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." [Luke xiv, 26.]
"Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." [John xi, 26.]
"If ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. [John viii, 24.]
"I am the light of the world." [John viii, 12.]
"I am the Son of God." [John x, 36.]
"I am the resurrection and the life." [John xi, 25.]
If Jesus was correct in claiming that he was the Messiah, if he could control the elements and send people to heaven or hell, he was justified in any extreme remarks; but not if he were merely a man. Every person is entitled to have as good an opinion of himself as his character and ability warrant, <b>but expressions of his own worth are unseemly even if true, and are inexcusable if exaggerated. </b>As Jesus himself said (though this authority is only for believers) testimony about oneself is unreliable.
<b>Jesus not only claimed to be more than a man, he threatened his hearers with death if they did not agree with him. All of which might be permissible if he were God, but was an egotistical illusion if he was merely human.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Under Lack of Courtesy, for example:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Lack of Courtesy</b>
Jesus did not always exhibit the courtesy one would expect of a gentleman, or even of a nature's nobleman.
The first instance of lack of consideration was when he slipped away from his parents, causing them unnecessary anxiety: "Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. [Luke ii, 48.] He had remained behind to study Hebrew theology and did not tell his parents, presumably because he thought they would not have permitted the venture.
Another instance was found in his daily life:
"A certain Pharisee besought him to dine with him: and he went in, and sat down to meat. And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner. And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. Ye fools ..." [Luke xi, 37-40.]
Jesus had not only failed to wash as was expected of a guest, but defended his uncleanliness and abused his host.
At another time Jesus was discourteous to his mother:
"And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?" [John ii, 4.]
Jesus was apparently annoyed at his mother's interference, though he followed her suggestion. He did not set a good example for children in addressing their mothers.
When the Syrophenician woman asked him to help her daughter, "Jesus saith unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter." [Mark vii, 25-29.]
Jesus practically admitted that he had made a mistake in speaking unkindly to a Gentile. Her clever answer induced him to change his decision. A physician who called a stranger's child a dog would now be considered brutal even in a free hospital.
"And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." [Matt. viii, 21-22.]
Jesus could have allowed the man to attend his father's funeral and follow him later. Would not that have set a better precedent?
When Peter intervened to protect Jesus, the latter "turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me." [Matt. xvi, 23,]
Even though Jesus was determined to go on with the sacrifice, he could have been more appreciative of his best friend's suggestion.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another website:
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/bible_quotes.html also gives insight to jesus's personality through his declarations on the various issues.
For example, on whether jesus was the 'bringer of peace?' (the bold is mine)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Was Jesus the bringer of peace on earth? </b>
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law...."
..........Matthew 10:34
"Do you think I have to come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother- in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in- law.
..........Luke 12:51
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me." ..........Luke 19:27 (parable)
"And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one." ..........Luke 22:36
"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." ..........Luke 14:26<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks..
[right][snapback]75308[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You might want to check out the following website, which has compiled most of the (in)famous quotes of jesus on family, marriage, treatment of slaves, etc. Each of the quotes are classified according to subject matter.
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical...f_jesus.html#53
For example, under Egoism, the website states:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Egotism</b>
<b>If Jesus was not God, but merely the ideal man, his estimate of himself was excessive. In addition to his remarks already quoted there are many other instances of an exaggerated ego.</b>
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." [Luke xiv, 26.]
"Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." [John xi, 26.]
"If ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. [John viii, 24.]
"I am the light of the world." [John viii, 12.]
"I am the Son of God." [John x, 36.]
"I am the resurrection and the life." [John xi, 25.]
If Jesus was correct in claiming that he was the Messiah, if he could control the elements and send people to heaven or hell, he was justified in any extreme remarks; but not if he were merely a man. Every person is entitled to have as good an opinion of himself as his character and ability warrant, <b>but expressions of his own worth are unseemly even if true, and are inexcusable if exaggerated. </b>As Jesus himself said (though this authority is only for believers) testimony about oneself is unreliable.
<b>Jesus not only claimed to be more than a man, he threatened his hearers with death if they did not agree with him. All of which might be permissible if he were God, but was an egotistical illusion if he was merely human.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Under Lack of Courtesy, for example:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Lack of Courtesy</b>
Jesus did not always exhibit the courtesy one would expect of a gentleman, or even of a nature's nobleman.
The first instance of lack of consideration was when he slipped away from his parents, causing them unnecessary anxiety: "Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. [Luke ii, 48.] He had remained behind to study Hebrew theology and did not tell his parents, presumably because he thought they would not have permitted the venture.
Another instance was found in his daily life:
"A certain Pharisee besought him to dine with him: and he went in, and sat down to meat. And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner. And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. Ye fools ..." [Luke xi, 37-40.]
Jesus had not only failed to wash as was expected of a guest, but defended his uncleanliness and abused his host.
At another time Jesus was discourteous to his mother:
"And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?" [John ii, 4.]
Jesus was apparently annoyed at his mother's interference, though he followed her suggestion. He did not set a good example for children in addressing their mothers.
When the Syrophenician woman asked him to help her daughter, "Jesus saith unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter." [Mark vii, 25-29.]
Jesus practically admitted that he had made a mistake in speaking unkindly to a Gentile. Her clever answer induced him to change his decision. A physician who called a stranger's child a dog would now be considered brutal even in a free hospital.
"And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." [Matt. viii, 21-22.]
Jesus could have allowed the man to attend his father's funeral and follow him later. Would not that have set a better precedent?
When Peter intervened to protect Jesus, the latter "turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me." [Matt. xvi, 23,]
Even though Jesus was determined to go on with the sacrifice, he could have been more appreciative of his best friend's suggestion.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another website:
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/bible_quotes.html also gives insight to jesus's personality through his declarations on the various issues.
For example, on whether jesus was the 'bringer of peace?' (the bold is mine)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Was Jesus the bringer of peace on earth? </b>
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law...."
..........Matthew 10:34
"Do you think I have to come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother- in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in- law.
..........Luke 12:51
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me." ..........Luke 19:27 (parable)
"And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one." ..........Luke 22:36
"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." ..........Luke 14:26<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->