I would like to interject just a bit here, with a few tidbits of what I feel might be relevant to the good discussion.
- etymology of mAyA in samskritam is mA-yA - one who does not exist (and yet exists). One who appears without any existance. or the contrary: one who exists but cannot be perceived by others.
- There is a vivid description of a great mAyA - in Valmiki Ramayanam. Hanuman mentions about mAyA and his deeds in his debrief.
- Jaya/Mahabharatam even begins with a vivid description of nAgA-s: through the highy mystified tale of two sisters kudru and vinatA who were married to sage kaSyapa. Many other tales about nAga-s including the very anchor of mahAbhAratam: the nAga-vinAsha-yagya / sarpa-yagya conducted by janamejaya in the beginning of the kaliyuga.
- back to the kudru-vinatA episode for a while. the whole take is so stunningly symbolic, it has layers upon layers of some hints, which we can pick. First it mentions domination of the sons of kudru - the nAga-s - in strength. It also mentions theier "enslaving" vanita and her son (garuDa). Then it also mentions how garuDa carries "some" nAga-s to certain islands, and then to some more islands. Having carried them their he begins the enterprises of freeing up himself and his mother from slavery of nAga cousins/step-brothers. It also mentions that some nAga-s were 'good' and others 'bad'. It then mentions that good nAga-s would be eventually be saved and immortalized, while bad ones will be slaughtered/vanished/empoverished. Good nAgas are mentioned with immense respect : e.g. Shesha who goes to the service of vishNu, just like garuDa himself.
- To me it appears that nAgA-s are not mere 'snakes/serpants', although the reptile - cobra (not just any snake) today might be taken as a representative of the ancient peoples called nAgA-s in their memory.
- It also mentions the other son of vinatA - aruNa - elder brother of garuDa - who because of impatience of his mother was born immatured. the tale is so mysterious - aruNa and garuDa are anDaja - come out of eggs hatched by his mother. So aruNa born immaturely and underdeveloped - goes to Mitra - the Sun to live with him forever.
- While there are very appropriate Adhyatmik meanings of the tale, very appropriate symbolism of Yogic experiences, it also appears to me that these set of tales, and various others of that context, might really want to be telling us about a dominant ancient people called nAga-s were once dominant force and population (1000 to 1.5 - if you go by the number in kudru-vinatA tale), but they continued to grow in ego and hostility to their cousins. They are eventually migrated to some islands, and also slaughtered (sarpa-yagya by janmejaya where he wants to completely vanish all the nAga-s)
- mention of Nagarcoil came, but also remember Nagpur! (some say this is where janamejaya performed sarpa-yagya)
- nAgesh : Lord of nAga-s - is a celebrated name of Lord Siva. nAgar (which also means citizen) is name of Lord krishna.
- nAga-s are also mentioned as enemies of Asura-s too. e.g. in Samudra Manthana episode, vAsukI nAga emitted terrible 'clouds of venom' upon asura-s killing so many of them, while saving sura-s from it at the same time, by keeping his mouth(s) towards asura-s and tail towards sura-s
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- By the way, only last week an ancient temple has been discovered in Peru. early dating estimates take it to as far as 3rd millenium BCE - making it almost contemporary of the Saraswati/Ghagghar and Egyptians. I had posted news about it on Miscelanuous History of India thread.
- Also remember another curious fact. Temple arts in Peru have depicted Elephants. Elephants have not been known to be found in Americas. Western Archaeologists have not been able to answer this one. Elephants have never lived in Americas. So they try to explain that this may be because there were trade relations, and they americans might be exposed to Elephants that way. Others tried to say the image is not elephant at all, but some other creature.
- As Raju said somewhere, there is/was a belief of native americans that they came from somewhere in the east by sailing for a certain number of days, etc.
- Mexican state symbol even *today* is an Eagle(?) carrying a snake in its beek. The same image can be found all over the Hindu temple arts, and represents the tale of kudru-vinatA : garuDa eventually carrying off his cousins/half-brothers to an island (for protection)
- Recall the record of how locals welcomed the terrorist tyrant Columbus and his gang, traeating them as if they were of their own, coming from their heavens, and lands of their Gods! Not knowing who he was. What were they thinking? Of course that he came from the east - from the lands of their forefathers!
- VS Naipaul, who having spent a lot of time in south america, has written about the native beleifs and culture throughout his literature. One that he mentions, is about their remembering and revering places in east. There is a tale that they used to sail, amid high risks, across the ocean to east - up to Greece and middle east and worship there in temples and monasteries and go back. Like their doing a highest pilgrimage. I had reproduced that piece in 'Sri Krishna and Rama Setu'.
- etymology of mAyA in samskritam is mA-yA - one who does not exist (and yet exists). One who appears without any existance. or the contrary: one who exists but cannot be perceived by others.
- There is a vivid description of a great mAyA - in Valmiki Ramayanam. Hanuman mentions about mAyA and his deeds in his debrief.
- Jaya/Mahabharatam even begins with a vivid description of nAgA-s: through the highy mystified tale of two sisters kudru and vinatA who were married to sage kaSyapa. Many other tales about nAga-s including the very anchor of mahAbhAratam: the nAga-vinAsha-yagya / sarpa-yagya conducted by janamejaya in the beginning of the kaliyuga.
- back to the kudru-vinatA episode for a while. the whole take is so stunningly symbolic, it has layers upon layers of some hints, which we can pick. First it mentions domination of the sons of kudru - the nAga-s - in strength. It also mentions theier "enslaving" vanita and her son (garuDa). Then it also mentions how garuDa carries "some" nAga-s to certain islands, and then to some more islands. Having carried them their he begins the enterprises of freeing up himself and his mother from slavery of nAga cousins/step-brothers. It also mentions that some nAga-s were 'good' and others 'bad'. It then mentions that good nAga-s would be eventually be saved and immortalized, while bad ones will be slaughtered/vanished/empoverished. Good nAgas are mentioned with immense respect : e.g. Shesha who goes to the service of vishNu, just like garuDa himself.
- To me it appears that nAgA-s are not mere 'snakes/serpants', although the reptile - cobra (not just any snake) today might be taken as a representative of the ancient peoples called nAgA-s in their memory.
- It also mentions the other son of vinatA - aruNa - elder brother of garuDa - who because of impatience of his mother was born immatured. the tale is so mysterious - aruNa and garuDa are anDaja - come out of eggs hatched by his mother. So aruNa born immaturely and underdeveloped - goes to Mitra - the Sun to live with him forever.
- While there are very appropriate Adhyatmik meanings of the tale, very appropriate symbolism of Yogic experiences, it also appears to me that these set of tales, and various others of that context, might really want to be telling us about a dominant ancient people called nAga-s were once dominant force and population (1000 to 1.5 - if you go by the number in kudru-vinatA tale), but they continued to grow in ego and hostility to their cousins. They are eventually migrated to some islands, and also slaughtered (sarpa-yagya by janmejaya where he wants to completely vanish all the nAga-s)
- mention of Nagarcoil came, but also remember Nagpur! (some say this is where janamejaya performed sarpa-yagya)
- nAgesh : Lord of nAga-s - is a celebrated name of Lord Siva. nAgar (which also means citizen) is name of Lord krishna.
- nAga-s are also mentioned as enemies of Asura-s too. e.g. in Samudra Manthana episode, vAsukI nAga emitted terrible 'clouds of venom' upon asura-s killing so many of them, while saving sura-s from it at the same time, by keeping his mouth(s) towards asura-s and tail towards sura-s
=========
- By the way, only last week an ancient temple has been discovered in Peru. early dating estimates take it to as far as 3rd millenium BCE - making it almost contemporary of the Saraswati/Ghagghar and Egyptians. I had posted news about it on Miscelanuous History of India thread.
- Also remember another curious fact. Temple arts in Peru have depicted Elephants. Elephants have not been known to be found in Americas. Western Archaeologists have not been able to answer this one. Elephants have never lived in Americas. So they try to explain that this may be because there were trade relations, and they americans might be exposed to Elephants that way. Others tried to say the image is not elephant at all, but some other creature.
- As Raju said somewhere, there is/was a belief of native americans that they came from somewhere in the east by sailing for a certain number of days, etc.
- Mexican state symbol even *today* is an Eagle(?) carrying a snake in its beek. The same image can be found all over the Hindu temple arts, and represents the tale of kudru-vinatA : garuDa eventually carrying off his cousins/half-brothers to an island (for protection)
- Recall the record of how locals welcomed the terrorist tyrant Columbus and his gang, traeating them as if they were of their own, coming from their heavens, and lands of their Gods! Not knowing who he was. What were they thinking? Of course that he came from the east - from the lands of their forefathers!
- VS Naipaul, who having spent a lot of time in south america, has written about the native beleifs and culture throughout his literature. One that he mentions, is about their remembering and revering places in east. There is a tale that they used to sail, amid high risks, across the ocean to east - up to Greece and middle east and worship there in temples and monasteries and go back. Like their doing a highest pilgrimage. I had reproduced that piece in 'Sri Krishna and Rama Setu'.