<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I will search for the links on all the above as soon as I can.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Well I haven't yet found everything again. But here's some things in the meantime - it is rather hard to locate stuff when I don't know the exact words I'm looking for.
http://www.ftarchives.net/foote/crimes/c8.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The edict of Hadrian, prohibiting them from ever approaching the site of Jerusalem, was renewed and enforced, and St. Chrysostom even assures us that when they assembled to rebuild their holy city, Constantine cut off their ears and dispersed them as fugitive slaves throughout the provinces of the empire. Eutychius adds that the emperor obliged them all to be baptised and to eat pork at Easter. [142:7] Constantius burnt all their cities in Palestine and slew all he could find, without sparing even the women and children.
Contrast the behavior of the Christian princes Constantine and Constantius with that of their successor, the Pagan Julian:
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"In a public epistle to the nation or community of Jews, dispersed through the provinces, he pities their misfortunes, condemns their oppressors, praises their constancy, declares himself their gracious protector, and expresses a pious hope that, after his return from the Persian war, he may be permitted to pay his grateful vows to the Almighty in his holy city of Jerusalem." [142:8] <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Julian did not return from the Persian war, and his untimely death gave an opportunity for the well-known Christian legend that his scheme for rebuilding Jerusalem was frustrated by the direct intervention of the outraged deity.
We have already seen (p. 35) how, in the days of Theodosius, Saint Ambrose, the greatest Christian of his age, vehemently denounced the idea of Christians making restitution to the Jews for burning their synagogues. Theodosius forbade them to build any new places of worship, [142:9] and persecuted them in various ways. Jews and Christians were not to intermarry. If they did so, their connection was illegal, and they were punished for the crime of adultery. This law was introduced before the Christian empire was a century old. [143:1] Like heretics, Jews were only admissible as witnesses when neither plaintiff nor defendant was orthodox. [143:2] Those whose children became converts were obliged to endow them to the satisfaction of the bishops. [143:3] The severe laws against the Jews were relaxed by the Arian emperor Theodoric, but this toleration, says Gibbon, was painful and offensive to the orthodox zeal of the Italian Christians. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://www.christianism.com website
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->[footnote] '46. This refers to Flavius Claudius Julianus (331-363). He was called the Apostate (from a Greek word meaning "rebel"), a label he earned in Christian history because he deserted the Christian religion and sought to reestablish the pagan Roman religion. He also promised the Jews that he would rebuild their temple in Jerusalem. When he died suddenly at the age of 32, Christians viewed this as a sign that God did not wish the temple rebuilt because, according to Christian theology, it had been destroyed as punishment for the crime of deicide [(according to the fiction) killed "Jesus"].' [191].<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh yeah, of course their premeditated murder of him is "a sign" from their gawd. By such logic, I guess all murders must be, then...
From the same site, this is very interesting. About historian Edward Gibbon's writings "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" where he showed that christianism killed Rome and Greco-Roman civilisation (as others had shown more explicitly since then). With the highlighting I drift from the emphases used in the original web page:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>'In a sense the Decline and Fall may be considered the first answer to St. Augustine's</b> [354 - 430] <b><i>City of God</i></b>. From the vantage point of the high Enlightenment Gibbon is looking back across the centuries to that giant, and is attacking Augustine's explanation of why Rome fell. <b>It is not, Gibbon argues, God's providence that brought Rome down. It is the very real, earthly enemy, the early Christians, that canker in the breast of an already decaying empire.</b> Gibbon's Rome is the work of men, and its fall is the work of men. Gibbon is in many ways a pagan gentleman of the late empire, surveying with sadness and passion the accumulated crimes of lese-majeste against his beloved Rome. His [Gibbon] is the first extensive and comprehensive response to St. Augustine; and as <b>the Decline and Fall recapitulates many of the arguments used by Pagan apologists in the fifth century, so, too, does it plead [1637 - 1698] for an earthly cause for Rome's fall.</b>
<b>"Constantine [Emperor 306 (312) - 337 (280? - 337)] absorbed Gibbon's attention as did few other men in Roman history. He is not one of the emperors Gibbon admired: he is one of the villains of the piece.</b> But Gibbon saw in the career of Constantine a microcosm of the decline and fall of the Roman empire. In his treatment of Constantine Gibbon sought to paint the fate of Rome in miniature. The analysis of Constantine's character is one of the most ambitious in the Decline and Fall. For Gibbon Constantine's early career recapitulates the history of the empire before the fourth century: his later career is a study in the decay and degeneracy which would eventually destroy Rome. The young Constantine was a model prince: vital, talented, full of promise. His young manhood represents the partial fulfillment of this promise. But in his old age--an old age disgraced by religious fanaticism and dark and bloody deeds--Constantine reveals his true character, sacrifices his brilliant reputation, and fatally weakens the empire in a mad rush after personal glory.
Gibbon heightens the tragedy of Constantine's career by painting his early exploits in growing colors. But after the defeat of Licinius (A.D. 324) Constantine sinks rapidly into degeneracy, and the decline of the empire quickens with each successive reign. THE LEGACY OF CONSTANTINE IS THE SLOW BUT EFFECTIVE POISON OF MORAL CORRUPTION, INSTITUTIONALIZED IN THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH AND THE NEW CONSTITUTIONS OF THE STATE. So well did he [Constantine] do his work that even <b>Julian [Emperor 361 - 363 (331 - 363)] the Apostate, one of Gibbon's heroes and a noble Roman, could not save Rome by attempting to return her to the good old ways."</b> [196].<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->One lesson could be not to let the modern-day mad Helena (Sonia Goonda) and scary offspring make the situation unrecoverable for us.
I also found these a number of hours ago when searching for Julian-related stuff, but didn't store the links for the following as I wasn't really intending to paste them here (just copied the text for my own reading pleasure). But now I think they may be of general interest too. The sources can be found by just pasting these into a search engine and they should turn up.
Julian quotations:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The primitive <b>Christians</b> were perpetually reproached for their credulity; and Julian says that <b>"the sum of all their wisdom was comprised in the single precept -- 'believe.'"</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"No wild beasts," he once declared, "are as hostile to men as Christian sects in general are to one another."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->And again we see that the Ancients pointed out how, even back then, Jeebus (and Paul) were just totally unknown to historians and writers. Here is Julian saying:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->165. "But if you can show me that one of these men ["Jesus or Paul"] is mentioned by the well-known writers of that time,--these events happened in the reign of Tiberius or Claudius,--then you may consider that I speak falsely about all matters. "
166. "All the copies of Julian's work which could be found were destroyed by order of the emperor Theodosius II. [Emperor 408 - 450 C.E.], and the whole would have been lost for ever but for Cyrill [Cyril of Alexandria 376 - 444 C.E.], who gives extracts from the three first books in his refutation of Julian. But these extracts are far from giving an adequate idea of the work. Cyrill confesses that he had not ventured to copy several of the weightiest arguments of the author. "<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ingersoll writes that Julian's last words were:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"I submit willingly to the eternal decrees of heaven, convinced that he who is captivated with life, when his last hour has arrived is more weak and pusillanimous than he who would rush to voluntary death when it is his duty still to live."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Compare that to the ridiculous nonsense "last words" that desperate christolying put into Julian's mouth posthumously to make the faithful sheep of later centuries believe that non-existent jeebus had won ("Galilean, thou hast conquered!"). <- Convenient lies by the church. When will they finally learn that lying *does not pay*?
I also saved some text that mention Julian's beliefs. I will put them in another thread where I think they are more appropriate.
<b>EDITED.</b> Here is the rest: Other Natural Religions thread, post 14.
http://www.ftarchives.net/foote/crimes/c8.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The edict of Hadrian, prohibiting them from ever approaching the site of Jerusalem, was renewed and enforced, and St. Chrysostom even assures us that when they assembled to rebuild their holy city, Constantine cut off their ears and dispersed them as fugitive slaves throughout the provinces of the empire. Eutychius adds that the emperor obliged them all to be baptised and to eat pork at Easter. [142:7] Constantius burnt all their cities in Palestine and slew all he could find, without sparing even the women and children.
Contrast the behavior of the Christian princes Constantine and Constantius with that of their successor, the Pagan Julian:
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"In a public epistle to the nation or community of Jews, dispersed through the provinces, he pities their misfortunes, condemns their oppressors, praises their constancy, declares himself their gracious protector, and expresses a pious hope that, after his return from the Persian war, he may be permitted to pay his grateful vows to the Almighty in his holy city of Jerusalem." [142:8] <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Julian did not return from the Persian war, and his untimely death gave an opportunity for the well-known Christian legend that his scheme for rebuilding Jerusalem was frustrated by the direct intervention of the outraged deity.
We have already seen (p. 35) how, in the days of Theodosius, Saint Ambrose, the greatest Christian of his age, vehemently denounced the idea of Christians making restitution to the Jews for burning their synagogues. Theodosius forbade them to build any new places of worship, [142:9] and persecuted them in various ways. Jews and Christians were not to intermarry. If they did so, their connection was illegal, and they were punished for the crime of adultery. This law was introduced before the Christian empire was a century old. [143:1] Like heretics, Jews were only admissible as witnesses when neither plaintiff nor defendant was orthodox. [143:2] Those whose children became converts were obliged to endow them to the satisfaction of the bishops. [143:3] The severe laws against the Jews were relaxed by the Arian emperor Theodoric, but this toleration, says Gibbon, was painful and offensive to the orthodox zeal of the Italian Christians. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://www.christianism.com website
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->[footnote] '46. This refers to Flavius Claudius Julianus (331-363). He was called the Apostate (from a Greek word meaning "rebel"), a label he earned in Christian history because he deserted the Christian religion and sought to reestablish the pagan Roman religion. He also promised the Jews that he would rebuild their temple in Jerusalem. When he died suddenly at the age of 32, Christians viewed this as a sign that God did not wish the temple rebuilt because, according to Christian theology, it had been destroyed as punishment for the crime of deicide [(according to the fiction) killed "Jesus"].' [191].<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh yeah, of course their premeditated murder of him is "a sign" from their gawd. By such logic, I guess all murders must be, then...
From the same site, this is very interesting. About historian Edward Gibbon's writings "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" where he showed that christianism killed Rome and Greco-Roman civilisation (as others had shown more explicitly since then). With the highlighting I drift from the emphases used in the original web page:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>'In a sense the Decline and Fall may be considered the first answer to St. Augustine's</b> [354 - 430] <b><i>City of God</i></b>. From the vantage point of the high Enlightenment Gibbon is looking back across the centuries to that giant, and is attacking Augustine's explanation of why Rome fell. <b>It is not, Gibbon argues, God's providence that brought Rome down. It is the very real, earthly enemy, the early Christians, that canker in the breast of an already decaying empire.</b> Gibbon's Rome is the work of men, and its fall is the work of men. Gibbon is in many ways a pagan gentleman of the late empire, surveying with sadness and passion the accumulated crimes of lese-majeste against his beloved Rome. His [Gibbon] is the first extensive and comprehensive response to St. Augustine; and as <b>the Decline and Fall recapitulates many of the arguments used by Pagan apologists in the fifth century, so, too, does it plead [1637 - 1698] for an earthly cause for Rome's fall.</b>
<b>"Constantine [Emperor 306 (312) - 337 (280? - 337)] absorbed Gibbon's attention as did few other men in Roman history. He is not one of the emperors Gibbon admired: he is one of the villains of the piece.</b> But Gibbon saw in the career of Constantine a microcosm of the decline and fall of the Roman empire. In his treatment of Constantine Gibbon sought to paint the fate of Rome in miniature. The analysis of Constantine's character is one of the most ambitious in the Decline and Fall. For Gibbon Constantine's early career recapitulates the history of the empire before the fourth century: his later career is a study in the decay and degeneracy which would eventually destroy Rome. The young Constantine was a model prince: vital, talented, full of promise. His young manhood represents the partial fulfillment of this promise. But in his old age--an old age disgraced by religious fanaticism and dark and bloody deeds--Constantine reveals his true character, sacrifices his brilliant reputation, and fatally weakens the empire in a mad rush after personal glory.
Gibbon heightens the tragedy of Constantine's career by painting his early exploits in growing colors. But after the defeat of Licinius (A.D. 324) Constantine sinks rapidly into degeneracy, and the decline of the empire quickens with each successive reign. THE LEGACY OF CONSTANTINE IS THE SLOW BUT EFFECTIVE POISON OF MORAL CORRUPTION, INSTITUTIONALIZED IN THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH AND THE NEW CONSTITUTIONS OF THE STATE. So well did he [Constantine] do his work that even <b>Julian [Emperor 361 - 363 (331 - 363)] the Apostate, one of Gibbon's heroes and a noble Roman, could not save Rome by attempting to return her to the good old ways."</b> [196].<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->One lesson could be not to let the modern-day mad Helena (Sonia Goonda) and scary offspring make the situation unrecoverable for us.
I also found these a number of hours ago when searching for Julian-related stuff, but didn't store the links for the following as I wasn't really intending to paste them here (just copied the text for my own reading pleasure). But now I think they may be of general interest too. The sources can be found by just pasting these into a search engine and they should turn up.
Julian quotations:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The primitive <b>Christians</b> were perpetually reproached for their credulity; and Julian says that <b>"the sum of all their wisdom was comprised in the single precept -- 'believe.'"</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"No wild beasts," he once declared, "are as hostile to men as Christian sects in general are to one another."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->And again we see that the Ancients pointed out how, even back then, Jeebus (and Paul) were just totally unknown to historians and writers. Here is Julian saying:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->165. "But if you can show me that one of these men ["Jesus or Paul"] is mentioned by the well-known writers of that time,--these events happened in the reign of Tiberius or Claudius,--then you may consider that I speak falsely about all matters. "
166. "All the copies of Julian's work which could be found were destroyed by order of the emperor Theodosius II. [Emperor 408 - 450 C.E.], and the whole would have been lost for ever but for Cyrill [Cyril of Alexandria 376 - 444 C.E.], who gives extracts from the three first books in his refutation of Julian. But these extracts are far from giving an adequate idea of the work. Cyrill confesses that he had not ventured to copy several of the weightiest arguments of the author. "<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ingersoll writes that Julian's last words were:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"I submit willingly to the eternal decrees of heaven, convinced that he who is captivated with life, when his last hour has arrived is more weak and pusillanimous than he who would rush to voluntary death when it is his duty still to live."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Compare that to the ridiculous nonsense "last words" that desperate christolying put into Julian's mouth posthumously to make the faithful sheep of later centuries believe that non-existent jeebus had won ("Galilean, thou hast conquered!"). <- Convenient lies by the church. When will they finally learn that lying *does not pay*?
I also saved some text that mention Julian's beliefs. I will put them in another thread where I think they are more appropriate.
<b>EDITED.</b> Here is the rest: Other Natural Religions thread, post 14.
Death to traitors.