<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh by the way, I never said that the hagiographies were "pretty".<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The hagiographies can be "pretty", "ugly" or "unpleasant". That's immaterial (for the record, they were ugly and unpleasant, wallowing in fake and far-stretched - to say the least - martyrdoms).
The fact is, they were LIES. Fake history: history rewriting to make the villains the heroes. The grand christian tradition of lying about history still continues in christoterrorism and communism today.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Religion, regardless of all the missionaries and jehadis out there does not play an overarching role in the lives of most people.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->No Taoist or Buddhist (or Hindu) I know would ever say such a thing. Not the Shintoist I know either. Their Gods/way of life are an intrinsic part of their everyday life.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I think you need to study the lives of Chaitanya and Ramkrishna more closely before you can pass a judgement on them.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm neither a judge nor a christian, I don't do "passing judgement". How about you not be hasty.
I said they were the typical goody-two-shoes Hindus (of whom I have known many in the older generations. They could not know in their times those things that are open to us now about christoislamism's worldwide terrorism). They will attain moksha even when trapped in a pit, because their minds will be free and can see good in everything.
What's not a problem for them, however, is still a problem for the rest of us (that is, for most of Dharmic population): we can't attain moksha from within the tortuous mental prisons of christoislamism - in fact, most of the world can never break free from christoislamism once the various peoples of the planet are in its jaws.
What country has actually, truly broken free of christianism? None. What country has regained its former traditions? None.
Hindus in huge numbers keep apologising for christianism. And that is exactly what signifies that christianism is doing well. Once they have won defenders amongst the heathen population - who will defend it and foolishly try to separate some notion of a theoretical 'benevolent essence' from its completely violent reality - you know they have the upper hand.
People will never allow one to state the fact that christianism is the same as nazism, though it is in all but name - in fact, it's far worse. You can see it everywhere: for every Hindu who finally takes a stand, 20 others will come to say "oh, but you need to see the difference between 'evil' people who merely called themselves christians and the true believers/christ/the bible/the religion" and the other story of "Some people have given christianism a bad name". Failing that, the next excuse is labelling the unnameable threat as "evanjihadis", thus ignoring the problem once more. Again, only people - and a particular group at that - are identified here as the trouble. Finally you will have the remaining excuses "yes, christianism is bad, but we have many bad things too" or an outright "all religions are bad" (equal-equal, 'let's start again' routine), or my all-time favourite: "yes, it may all be true, but we can't speak the facts - even amongst ourselves - about their religion because it will hurt their sentiments". Wow, love the logic: 'don't tell the truth because it will hurt nazis.' Many an Indian has been christo-conditioned in this way: to the extent that the Indian can be made an apologist/defender of christianism, christianism will use him to voice one of these diversionary kinds of arguments in favour of it.
(Noteworthy is that even the few who recognise islamism for what it is will still defend christianism - which is why christianism is 10 steps ahead of islamism in the game. Christianism has had lots of time to become good at PR/propaganda. Hindu Gods are myths - says the (mis)educated, modern Hindu, and then simultaneously speaks about what jesus 'the teacher' said and taught.)
People either investigate and realise that christianism is a huge threat, or they don't bother.
Debating niceties about trying to make 'regular, average christians' realise that their #1 commandment may be "just slightly" bigoted - which shows huge ignorance of the fact that the christian ideology is <i>founded and hinges</i> on this commandment and no christian in their right mind would ever distance themselves from the absoluteness of #1 - are very nice exercises: on par with with trying to drain a well using a bucket with no bottom (as happened in a narrative from the Greek tradition).
When one side doesn't/won't see that a war is on and in full-swing, that's when you know beforehand who's going to win. India actually lost decisively a little over a decade ago, though it went by so quietly that some people don't seem to have picked it up. What remains to our generation is damage control, ending christianism before it eats other peoples and finishes of other traditional ways of life in the world, and preventing slavery of our own population as has befallen all zombified populations in christianised countries. When I say we will (or rather can) overcome christianism, I never meant we would escape unscathed. It's just too late for that: the damage was done, and ruinously so.
At least the Greco-Romans put up a big fight, with their educated pulling almost proportionally-equal weight. But Hindus' "educated" self-appointed representatives unwittingly become mouthpieces for christianism, just as was its intention. They will always magnanimously choose to dialogue, when all that was asked of them was to ignore the topic of christoislamism and rather help strengthen knowledge in our population about our own way of life: to create our own media, our own channels that express who we are and were. But no, they are too fond of playing pseculars, with each passing decade bringing more ruin by their unthinking actions that support psecularism, and then whine when those more psecular than them accuse them of Hindoooootva.
And when they do finally speak with some passion, it is always directed as a sermon towards us on how we are supposed to identify only 'strands' of christianism (islamism) as dangerous and not the reality which is the whole ideology. Never mind that we can already get that and much more on the christo channels and in the commie newspapers.
While other peoples - from the ancient Greco-Romans, to the 500+ year long fight of the native Americans, to the Africans in our time - have only succumbed due to violence, our 'intellectuals' will procure a wonderful spot in history for us: that we will merely succumb due to stupidity -> inaction.
Fortunately for Dharmics, there are some real rolemodels: there's always the Korean Buddhists, the Taiwanese and the indomitable Japanese. The Africans are just as able: many comparably tiny communities are making valiant stands defying christianism (and islamism too) - at times, to their death even. The media maintains a religious silence on them, pretends they never existed.
(Of course none of these other populations suffered from English mal-education instituted by the christoBritish, but even the Indians that talk about "mental colonisation" have still not made any efforts to get out of it - I think the excuse is invalidated when they realise that mental colonisation exists.)
All we have is people who make speeches about why we should negotiate with the ideology of christianism (all while Hindus in the NE and supposedly less-violent Kerala are terrorised and murdered). Presumably, because in >~1500 years of negotiation with christianism, heathen peoples have made huge strides. I mean, just look at the effect this dialogue had on the #1 commandment after all this time - wait, it's still at "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me". Hmmm, less success than anticipated. Ooh, I wonder why that is.
All this dialoguing is really very secular of our would-be intelligentsia. They're so forebearing: overlooking the deaths of Dharmics in NE and Kerala (in other words, the deaths of other people) while defending the greater 'good' of psecularism. It's one thing to not be able to prevent a murder, but it's another to play defense attorney for a known murderer. The dead Dharmics are very much indebted to their efforts, else wouldn't they protest pseculars' assumption that their silence means acquiescence?
<b>ADDED:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I totally agree that awareness about Abrahamic doctrines warts and all needs to be built up. however the awareness builder must understand the audience while doing so and must keep his objectivity at all times. Also it is a question of creating bridges and not gaps.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Abrahamic? <b>What problem do you have against Judaism?</b> Though you don't seem to mind the terrorism of christianism, but Judaism hasn't bothered us and yet it has immediately made your list of warty stuff. <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Psecularism always has the same arguments: Equal-equal.
"keep his objectivity at all times." Of course, which is stating FACTS about christianism. Objectivity is NOT pretending that evangelism is the root or sum total of the problem. That would be known as deception (aka lying).
"Also it is a question of creating bridges and not gaps" Their religion creates the gaps (which is important in making them feel special, saved, chosen) and refuses real bridges (there's no bridge between the heaven where the saved go and the hell to where the unsaved kaffirs are condemned), allowing/facilitating/encouraging only insincere invitations for "dialogue" aka Hindu-bashing like on Indian TV discussions on Hinduism.
We merely let them keep their cherished gaps (as is their right, since they cling to it so) and ignore them until they see sanity and wander over to our side.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->there is no point in continuing to harp on the problems<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->You're quite right, the aatmaas of the (continuing) victims of christian murder and terrorism in NE of India (news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/717775.stm "Church backing Tripura rebels" 2000) have no right to cry out for justice. Why do they keep harping on their misfortunes again and again. Really, you must get tired of hearing about it. Why don't they just learn to live with it. I mean, look how swell you are able to get along with christianism just by developing your own view of it - why won't they do the same?
The fact is, they were LIES. Fake history: history rewriting to make the villains the heroes. The grand christian tradition of lying about history still continues in christoterrorism and communism today.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Religion, regardless of all the missionaries and jehadis out there does not play an overarching role in the lives of most people.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->No Taoist or Buddhist (or Hindu) I know would ever say such a thing. Not the Shintoist I know either. Their Gods/way of life are an intrinsic part of their everyday life.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I think you need to study the lives of Chaitanya and Ramkrishna more closely before you can pass a judgement on them.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm neither a judge nor a christian, I don't do "passing judgement". How about you not be hasty.
I said they were the typical goody-two-shoes Hindus (of whom I have known many in the older generations. They could not know in their times those things that are open to us now about christoislamism's worldwide terrorism). They will attain moksha even when trapped in a pit, because their minds will be free and can see good in everything.
What's not a problem for them, however, is still a problem for the rest of us (that is, for most of Dharmic population): we can't attain moksha from within the tortuous mental prisons of christoislamism - in fact, most of the world can never break free from christoislamism once the various peoples of the planet are in its jaws.
What country has actually, truly broken free of christianism? None. What country has regained its former traditions? None.
Hindus in huge numbers keep apologising for christianism. And that is exactly what signifies that christianism is doing well. Once they have won defenders amongst the heathen population - who will defend it and foolishly try to separate some notion of a theoretical 'benevolent essence' from its completely violent reality - you know they have the upper hand.
People will never allow one to state the fact that christianism is the same as nazism, though it is in all but name - in fact, it's far worse. You can see it everywhere: for every Hindu who finally takes a stand, 20 others will come to say "oh, but you need to see the difference between 'evil' people who merely called themselves christians and the true believers/christ/the bible/the religion" and the other story of "Some people have given christianism a bad name". Failing that, the next excuse is labelling the unnameable threat as "evanjihadis", thus ignoring the problem once more. Again, only people - and a particular group at that - are identified here as the trouble. Finally you will have the remaining excuses "yes, christianism is bad, but we have many bad things too" or an outright "all religions are bad" (equal-equal, 'let's start again' routine), or my all-time favourite: "yes, it may all be true, but we can't speak the facts - even amongst ourselves - about their religion because it will hurt their sentiments". Wow, love the logic: 'don't tell the truth because it will hurt nazis.' Many an Indian has been christo-conditioned in this way: to the extent that the Indian can be made an apologist/defender of christianism, christianism will use him to voice one of these diversionary kinds of arguments in favour of it.
(Noteworthy is that even the few who recognise islamism for what it is will still defend christianism - which is why christianism is 10 steps ahead of islamism in the game. Christianism has had lots of time to become good at PR/propaganda. Hindu Gods are myths - says the (mis)educated, modern Hindu, and then simultaneously speaks about what jesus 'the teacher' said and taught.)
People either investigate and realise that christianism is a huge threat, or they don't bother.
Debating niceties about trying to make 'regular, average christians' realise that their #1 commandment may be "just slightly" bigoted - which shows huge ignorance of the fact that the christian ideology is <i>founded and hinges</i> on this commandment and no christian in their right mind would ever distance themselves from the absoluteness of #1 - are very nice exercises: on par with with trying to drain a well using a bucket with no bottom (as happened in a narrative from the Greek tradition).
When one side doesn't/won't see that a war is on and in full-swing, that's when you know beforehand who's going to win. India actually lost decisively a little over a decade ago, though it went by so quietly that some people don't seem to have picked it up. What remains to our generation is damage control, ending christianism before it eats other peoples and finishes of other traditional ways of life in the world, and preventing slavery of our own population as has befallen all zombified populations in christianised countries. When I say we will (or rather can) overcome christianism, I never meant we would escape unscathed. It's just too late for that: the damage was done, and ruinously so.
At least the Greco-Romans put up a big fight, with their educated pulling almost proportionally-equal weight. But Hindus' "educated" self-appointed representatives unwittingly become mouthpieces for christianism, just as was its intention. They will always magnanimously choose to dialogue, when all that was asked of them was to ignore the topic of christoislamism and rather help strengthen knowledge in our population about our own way of life: to create our own media, our own channels that express who we are and were. But no, they are too fond of playing pseculars, with each passing decade bringing more ruin by their unthinking actions that support psecularism, and then whine when those more psecular than them accuse them of Hindoooootva.
And when they do finally speak with some passion, it is always directed as a sermon towards us on how we are supposed to identify only 'strands' of christianism (islamism) as dangerous and not the reality which is the whole ideology. Never mind that we can already get that and much more on the christo channels and in the commie newspapers.
While other peoples - from the ancient Greco-Romans, to the 500+ year long fight of the native Americans, to the Africans in our time - have only succumbed due to violence, our 'intellectuals' will procure a wonderful spot in history for us: that we will merely succumb due to stupidity -> inaction.
Fortunately for Dharmics, there are some real rolemodels: there's always the Korean Buddhists, the Taiwanese and the indomitable Japanese. The Africans are just as able: many comparably tiny communities are making valiant stands defying christianism (and islamism too) - at times, to their death even. The media maintains a religious silence on them, pretends they never existed.
(Of course none of these other populations suffered from English mal-education instituted by the christoBritish, but even the Indians that talk about "mental colonisation" have still not made any efforts to get out of it - I think the excuse is invalidated when they realise that mental colonisation exists.)
All we have is people who make speeches about why we should negotiate with the ideology of christianism (all while Hindus in the NE and supposedly less-violent Kerala are terrorised and murdered). Presumably, because in >~1500 years of negotiation with christianism, heathen peoples have made huge strides. I mean, just look at the effect this dialogue had on the #1 commandment after all this time - wait, it's still at "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me". Hmmm, less success than anticipated. Ooh, I wonder why that is.
All this dialoguing is really very secular of our would-be intelligentsia. They're so forebearing: overlooking the deaths of Dharmics in NE and Kerala (in other words, the deaths of other people) while defending the greater 'good' of psecularism. It's one thing to not be able to prevent a murder, but it's another to play defense attorney for a known murderer. The dead Dharmics are very much indebted to their efforts, else wouldn't they protest pseculars' assumption that their silence means acquiescence?
<b>ADDED:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I totally agree that awareness about Abrahamic doctrines warts and all needs to be built up. however the awareness builder must understand the audience while doing so and must keep his objectivity at all times. Also it is a question of creating bridges and not gaps.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Abrahamic? <b>What problem do you have against Judaism?</b> Though you don't seem to mind the terrorism of christianism, but Judaism hasn't bothered us and yet it has immediately made your list of warty stuff. <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Psecularism always has the same arguments: Equal-equal.
"keep his objectivity at all times." Of course, which is stating FACTS about christianism. Objectivity is NOT pretending that evangelism is the root or sum total of the problem. That would be known as deception (aka lying).
"Also it is a question of creating bridges and not gaps" Their religion creates the gaps (which is important in making them feel special, saved, chosen) and refuses real bridges (there's no bridge between the heaven where the saved go and the hell to where the unsaved kaffirs are condemned), allowing/facilitating/encouraging only insincere invitations for "dialogue" aka Hindu-bashing like on Indian TV discussions on Hinduism.
We merely let them keep their cherished gaps (as is their right, since they cling to it so) and ignore them until they see sanity and wander over to our side.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->there is no point in continuing to harp on the problems<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->You're quite right, the aatmaas of the (continuing) victims of christian murder and terrorism in NE of India (news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/717775.stm "Church backing Tripura rebels" 2000) have no right to cry out for justice. Why do they keep harping on their misfortunes again and again. Really, you must get tired of hearing about it. Why don't they just learn to live with it. I mean, look how swell you are able to get along with christianism just by developing your own view of it - why won't they do the same?