08-02-2008, 07:48 AM
http://www.witchvox.com/wren/wn_detaila.html?id=12147
Hindus Appeal Temple Denial
Author: Leroy Standish Source: Daily Press (CA)
Title: HINDUS APPEAL DENIAL
Area Hindus hoping for a temple on Apple Valley Road are not giving up without a fight.
Appeals were filed Tuesday with the Town Council and the town's Planning Commission, which last week denied a request by Hindu residents to build a temple and cultural center on 2.4 acres just north of Ottowa Road.
The Town Planning Commission cited traffic concerns in denying the Hindus' request for a conditional use permit to build the temple. Commissioners contend that the 55 mph speed limit on Apple Valley Road is too fast for people to safely make left turns out of the temple.
The Planning Commission last Wednesday denied the project despite a town planning staff report that determined that the temple would not affect public health, safety or welfare.
The Sonlife Community Church sent a letter to the Planning Commission signed by Pastor Mark Allen Mikels asking that it deny the request to build the Hindu temple nearby, mostly based on traffic concerns.
The letter also noted that, "Certainly some of the commission will have other concerns with other aspects of this project ... such as the appropriateness of the proposed structure itself for the neighborhood or the appropriateness of placing a Hindu temple immediately adjacent to a Christian church."
Submitted by and Thanks to: Lyn
Options: [Read Full Story] [Comments Locked] [Email to a Friend]
Community Thoughts: There are 15 comments posted Reverse Sort
Appropriateness? Feb 1st. at 6:29:27 pm EST
Kara Harkins (Arlington, Virginia) - Email Me - Web
"...the appropriateness of placing a Hindu temple immediately adjacent to a Christian church."
Okay, if they do not want it next to them I am sure they will not mind buying the property. Otherwise I can tell them what they can do with their "appropriateness" issue.
Since they bring it up though, from the point of view of zoning wouln't it actually be MORE appropriate to cluster the different churches together? :-)
THe More Things Change Feb 1st. at 12:01:42 pm EST
Gary DeLoriea (Port Jervis, New Jersey) - Email Me
New jrsey hindus are haveing the same problem. This time the township in question revoked the permit AFTER the varience was issued. Makes me think religious igotry as involved here too.
Shame Shame And More Shame Feb 1st. at 4:35:17 am EST
Lee McCleary (Beech Grove, Florida) - Email Me
Thi is not an issue about speed limits and other such garbage this is Christians up in arms about Hindus next door. I am sure they would be happy if the temple was somewhere else, like in another country. I will never understand why people do not understand that what they can do too others can in fact be done to them. If you allow a law or ruling to prevent the construction of a temple then someone else can prevent a church using the same law. Wake up people Hindus temples will cause you no harm and you might even learn something.
55 miles per hour indeed !
Peace
Some Reminders... Jan 31st. at 11:24:00 pm EST
Youngermoon (Columbia, Texas) - Email Me
The city's own staff report indicates that traffic issues are NOT a problem.
There does seem to be some soft bigotry in the traffic argument itself: the Christian Church was approved with no traffic-argument-hassles. Referring to the current situation one opponent to the temple stated that the road for the Christian Church had a stop sign, and that those "get more respect." OK, I am assuming that this is not a 4-way stop, since the main road is 55mph, so the people coming out of the church are the ones giving respect, implying that the temple-goers do not? This person seems to be implying that the traffic problem is due to the Hindu's poor driving ability. People coming out of the Church have respect for the traffic laws. Those coming out of the Temple, don't. There seems to be a subtext here that indicates that they are not as concerned about the Temple-goers safety as they are thinking that they will be to blame for the problems...
Move Over And Make Room Jan 31st. at 8:50:34 pm EST
bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
Surely they can come to some agreement for traffic situations, after all it surely can't be that insurmountable. As to anything else, I guess 'Love thy neighbor' only applies if the neighbor in question is Christian too. It's amazing just how quickly that some become rather condescending when the religion is anything else. I guess they're afraid that something might rub off from any of the Hindu worshippers. Or that their congregation might become Hindu overnight for some reason. As for competition-- well for a few Christians that's always been the name of the game. To win followers-- not friends.
Traffic Concerns? Yeah, Right. Jan 31st. at 5:36:44 pm EST
Kyra (Jordan, Minnesota) - Email Me
I think their only traffic concern is that the traffic is going to a non-Christian house of worship.
The whole traffic argument is a load of crap. Around where I live there are plenty of T-bone intersections onto fifty-five mile per hour streets, many of which carry a good amount of traffic on both roads. It isn't a problem so long as you have good visibility. AND the city in question here has plans to build an island where the intersection would be, which would be completed when the temple is completed. The city has no complaint worth denying these people a place to worship.
And that idiot who questioned the appropriateness of a Hindu temple and a Christian church next to each other really ought to hire a proctologist to find his head. It's not like they're competing with each other; no one's going to say, "Well, salvation is fifty cents a pound cheaper over at the Hindu temple so I'll do my shopping there from now on." Not like the Rainbow Foods (I keep expecting the Christian Right to complain that Rainbow is enforcing the gay lifestyle) that just popped up across the street from Cub Foods one town north of me. THAT's competition; this is diversity.
I noticed that it was a Christian pastor who suggested that he didn't want the Hindus near his church (unless, presumeably, they were coming into his church to be Saved) . So bigotry and segregation are Christian family values now? Way to love thy neighbor!
Sometimes I wonder if the people who approve these things ought not to do it blind, i.e. submit the proposal calling it a "house of worship, " so they can't tell if it's going to be a Christian church, a Hindu temple, or what.
I've spent the last few years watching new churches sprout up like daisies all over the place, with impressive (and expensive) architecture and sitting on acres and acres of tax-exempt land. A Hindu temple would make for a nice change of pace.
Par For The Course Jan 31st. at 1:53:43 pm EST
stalkingwolf (Cornville, Arizona) - Email Me
for this town. I grew up in that area. about 30 miles away actually . this towns major claim to fame
used to be the Roy Rogers Museum, The Roy Rogers
Apple Valley Inn , and the fact that Roy Rogers lived
there.
over 20 years ago as i recall Roy dumped his interest in the Inn ( it is now a resident facility or was
last time i was through there) , Moved his Museum
as far on the other side of Victorville as possible (land availability im sure) , removed the AV name from everything includind the tire cover on his parade car.
Rumor for many years was that Roy had lost a sizeable chunk of money in a deal which the city was involved. I never heard one way or the other, but then
I moved out of the area also.
This sounds so Apple Valley
The Sonlife Community Church sent a letter to the Planning Commission signed by Pastor Mark Allen Mikels asking that it deny the request to build the Hindu temple nearby, mostly based on traffic concerns.
The letter also noted that, "Certainly some of the commission will have other concerns with other aspects of this project ... such as the appropriateness of the proposed structure itself for the neighborhood or the appropriateness of placing a Hindu temple immediately adjacent to a Christian church."
its not just "in My back yard." its not in my town
or anywhere around me.
Secret Code Jan 31st. at 12:42:38 pm EST
Aramor Silvanus (Lubbock, Texas) - Email Me
"Other concerns" sounds like a code that's used to say, "We don't want any Godless people next to our church."
And whatever happened to the "Establishment of Religion" clause in the United States Constitution?
Gnothi Seauton,
AS
NIMBY Is Hard To Overcome Jan 31st. at 9:25:54 am EST
Archer Jadephoenix (Trenton, New Jersey) - Email Me
Not In My BackYard is one of the hardest things to overcome. It takes money, political influence, and a will of steel to do something that the locals don't approve of. But I've noticed that many times (if not the majority of times) the change is actually for the better, and helps the community - even those that are directly affected.
For example - A HUGE Wal-Mart/ShopRite strip mall complex was proposed in my area along a very busy route. The locals protested - the last strip mall like that put in anywhere near them had caused traffic bottlenecks, jams, etc. It generated more traffic than the roads could handle, and to this very day is a pain in the royal patook to navigate through, despite the great stores within.
People were screaming NIMBY at the top of their lungs.
But the people who had proposed the strip mall continued anyhow, as the farmland they were building on had been unused/abandoned for nearly twenty years - it was just a barren field with a few shrubs that had barely managed to grow in the area. The mall was built within a handful of months....
And is now the best shopping center to go to. It has clothing/retail shops. It has craft shops and restaurants and shoe stores and pet stores and an icecream shop, a hairdresser, a grocery store (huge!) and a liquor store all within a quarter of a mile from each other. You can get EVERYTHING you want in that complex.
As for the traffic? It hasn't be hindered in the least. Good traffic patterns were put into place, along with efficient lights and ramps to keep the flow continuing. There has never ONCE been a jam there as long as I've been going to it, even when they were holding major blow-out sales in some of the stores.
I honestly hope it puts the other strip-mall out of business. This one has been designed wonderfully, and has given jobs back to our still-struggling economy.
Granted, a strip mall is not a place of worship. Still, these NIMBY shouting people need to think about the good of their community, rather than themselves for a change. If the Christian church can exist without causing a major traffic concern, then the Hindu Temple shouldn't cause any more of a problem.
Instead of looking at this new project as a threat, the pastor of Sonlife Community Church needs to think of this as an opportunity to bridge the gaps between religions and "make friends".... not that I think he actually will.
But this is his chance.
*Shakes Head* Jan 31st. at 12:42:09 am EST
SLiver of Jade (Eugene, Oregon) - Email Me - Web
"I just wish it was in another location."
Such as "not in my backyard?"
"Not In My Backyard" ? Jan 30th. at 10:26:47 pm EST
Youngermoon (Columbia, Texas) - Email Me
These two quotes are, I think quite revealing:
"I am not against it in any way. I know people need places to worship and this is something that is sorely needed by the Indian population, " said Planning Commissioner Peter Allan, who voted against the temple. "I just wish it was in another location."
The letter also noted that, "Certainly some of the commission will have other concerns with other aspects of this project ... such as the appropriateness of the proposed structure itself for the neighborhood or the appropriateness of placing a Hindu temple immediately adjacent to a Christian church."
I get the impression that some of the people in the community are all in favor of diversity as long as it is not in their back yard. Also, you wouldn't want an alternative religion's temple sitting there in plain sight of the church...bored parishioners might be tempted to wander down the street...
When you are in the business of absolute truth, diversity of opinion, or relativism, are a threat to your authority...
I Wonder? Jan 30th. at 8:26:53 pm EST
Ghostcatbce (Calgary, Alberta) - Email Me
At first I accepted completely the traffic problems were why they didn't want the temple built where it's planned. But that little note about there being "other concerns" makes me wonder if traffic is the only reason why the temple plans were rejected.
Hindus Appeal Temple Denial
Author: Leroy Standish Source: Daily Press (CA)
Title: HINDUS APPEAL DENIAL
Area Hindus hoping for a temple on Apple Valley Road are not giving up without a fight.
Appeals were filed Tuesday with the Town Council and the town's Planning Commission, which last week denied a request by Hindu residents to build a temple and cultural center on 2.4 acres just north of Ottowa Road.
The Town Planning Commission cited traffic concerns in denying the Hindus' request for a conditional use permit to build the temple. Commissioners contend that the 55 mph speed limit on Apple Valley Road is too fast for people to safely make left turns out of the temple.
The Planning Commission last Wednesday denied the project despite a town planning staff report that determined that the temple would not affect public health, safety or welfare.
The Sonlife Community Church sent a letter to the Planning Commission signed by Pastor Mark Allen Mikels asking that it deny the request to build the Hindu temple nearby, mostly based on traffic concerns.
The letter also noted that, "Certainly some of the commission will have other concerns with other aspects of this project ... such as the appropriateness of the proposed structure itself for the neighborhood or the appropriateness of placing a Hindu temple immediately adjacent to a Christian church."
Submitted by and Thanks to: Lyn
Options: [Read Full Story] [Comments Locked] [Email to a Friend]
Community Thoughts: There are 15 comments posted Reverse Sort
Appropriateness? Feb 1st. at 6:29:27 pm EST
Kara Harkins (Arlington, Virginia) - Email Me - Web
"...the appropriateness of placing a Hindu temple immediately adjacent to a Christian church."
Okay, if they do not want it next to them I am sure they will not mind buying the property. Otherwise I can tell them what they can do with their "appropriateness" issue.
Since they bring it up though, from the point of view of zoning wouln't it actually be MORE appropriate to cluster the different churches together? :-)
THe More Things Change Feb 1st. at 12:01:42 pm EST
Gary DeLoriea (Port Jervis, New Jersey) - Email Me
New jrsey hindus are haveing the same problem. This time the township in question revoked the permit AFTER the varience was issued. Makes me think religious igotry as involved here too.
Shame Shame And More Shame Feb 1st. at 4:35:17 am EST
Lee McCleary (Beech Grove, Florida) - Email Me
Thi is not an issue about speed limits and other such garbage this is Christians up in arms about Hindus next door. I am sure they would be happy if the temple was somewhere else, like in another country. I will never understand why people do not understand that what they can do too others can in fact be done to them. If you allow a law or ruling to prevent the construction of a temple then someone else can prevent a church using the same law. Wake up people Hindus temples will cause you no harm and you might even learn something.
55 miles per hour indeed !
Peace
Some Reminders... Jan 31st. at 11:24:00 pm EST
Youngermoon (Columbia, Texas) - Email Me
The city's own staff report indicates that traffic issues are NOT a problem.
There does seem to be some soft bigotry in the traffic argument itself: the Christian Church was approved with no traffic-argument-hassles. Referring to the current situation one opponent to the temple stated that the road for the Christian Church had a stop sign, and that those "get more respect." OK, I am assuming that this is not a 4-way stop, since the main road is 55mph, so the people coming out of the church are the ones giving respect, implying that the temple-goers do not? This person seems to be implying that the traffic problem is due to the Hindu's poor driving ability. People coming out of the Church have respect for the traffic laws. Those coming out of the Temple, don't. There seems to be a subtext here that indicates that they are not as concerned about the Temple-goers safety as they are thinking that they will be to blame for the problems...
Move Over And Make Room Jan 31st. at 8:50:34 pm EST
bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
Surely they can come to some agreement for traffic situations, after all it surely can't be that insurmountable. As to anything else, I guess 'Love thy neighbor' only applies if the neighbor in question is Christian too. It's amazing just how quickly that some become rather condescending when the religion is anything else. I guess they're afraid that something might rub off from any of the Hindu worshippers. Or that their congregation might become Hindu overnight for some reason. As for competition-- well for a few Christians that's always been the name of the game. To win followers-- not friends.
Traffic Concerns? Yeah, Right. Jan 31st. at 5:36:44 pm EST
Kyra (Jordan, Minnesota) - Email Me
I think their only traffic concern is that the traffic is going to a non-Christian house of worship.
The whole traffic argument is a load of crap. Around where I live there are plenty of T-bone intersections onto fifty-five mile per hour streets, many of which carry a good amount of traffic on both roads. It isn't a problem so long as you have good visibility. AND the city in question here has plans to build an island where the intersection would be, which would be completed when the temple is completed. The city has no complaint worth denying these people a place to worship.
And that idiot who questioned the appropriateness of a Hindu temple and a Christian church next to each other really ought to hire a proctologist to find his head. It's not like they're competing with each other; no one's going to say, "Well, salvation is fifty cents a pound cheaper over at the Hindu temple so I'll do my shopping there from now on." Not like the Rainbow Foods (I keep expecting the Christian Right to complain that Rainbow is enforcing the gay lifestyle) that just popped up across the street from Cub Foods one town north of me. THAT's competition; this is diversity.
I noticed that it was a Christian pastor who suggested that he didn't want the Hindus near his church (unless, presumeably, they were coming into his church to be Saved) . So bigotry and segregation are Christian family values now? Way to love thy neighbor!
Sometimes I wonder if the people who approve these things ought not to do it blind, i.e. submit the proposal calling it a "house of worship, " so they can't tell if it's going to be a Christian church, a Hindu temple, or what.
I've spent the last few years watching new churches sprout up like daisies all over the place, with impressive (and expensive) architecture and sitting on acres and acres of tax-exempt land. A Hindu temple would make for a nice change of pace.
Par For The Course Jan 31st. at 1:53:43 pm EST
stalkingwolf (Cornville, Arizona) - Email Me
for this town. I grew up in that area. about 30 miles away actually . this towns major claim to fame
used to be the Roy Rogers Museum, The Roy Rogers
Apple Valley Inn , and the fact that Roy Rogers lived
there.
over 20 years ago as i recall Roy dumped his interest in the Inn ( it is now a resident facility or was
last time i was through there) , Moved his Museum
as far on the other side of Victorville as possible (land availability im sure) , removed the AV name from everything includind the tire cover on his parade car.
Rumor for many years was that Roy had lost a sizeable chunk of money in a deal which the city was involved. I never heard one way or the other, but then
I moved out of the area also.
This sounds so Apple Valley
The Sonlife Community Church sent a letter to the Planning Commission signed by Pastor Mark Allen Mikels asking that it deny the request to build the Hindu temple nearby, mostly based on traffic concerns.
The letter also noted that, "Certainly some of the commission will have other concerns with other aspects of this project ... such as the appropriateness of the proposed structure itself for the neighborhood or the appropriateness of placing a Hindu temple immediately adjacent to a Christian church."
its not just "in My back yard." its not in my town
or anywhere around me.
Secret Code Jan 31st. at 12:42:38 pm EST
Aramor Silvanus (Lubbock, Texas) - Email Me
"Other concerns" sounds like a code that's used to say, "We don't want any Godless people next to our church."
And whatever happened to the "Establishment of Religion" clause in the United States Constitution?
Gnothi Seauton,
AS
NIMBY Is Hard To Overcome Jan 31st. at 9:25:54 am EST
Archer Jadephoenix (Trenton, New Jersey) - Email Me
Not In My BackYard is one of the hardest things to overcome. It takes money, political influence, and a will of steel to do something that the locals don't approve of. But I've noticed that many times (if not the majority of times) the change is actually for the better, and helps the community - even those that are directly affected.
For example - A HUGE Wal-Mart/ShopRite strip mall complex was proposed in my area along a very busy route. The locals protested - the last strip mall like that put in anywhere near them had caused traffic bottlenecks, jams, etc. It generated more traffic than the roads could handle, and to this very day is a pain in the royal patook to navigate through, despite the great stores within.
People were screaming NIMBY at the top of their lungs.
But the people who had proposed the strip mall continued anyhow, as the farmland they were building on had been unused/abandoned for nearly twenty years - it was just a barren field with a few shrubs that had barely managed to grow in the area. The mall was built within a handful of months....
And is now the best shopping center to go to. It has clothing/retail shops. It has craft shops and restaurants and shoe stores and pet stores and an icecream shop, a hairdresser, a grocery store (huge!) and a liquor store all within a quarter of a mile from each other. You can get EVERYTHING you want in that complex.
As for the traffic? It hasn't be hindered in the least. Good traffic patterns were put into place, along with efficient lights and ramps to keep the flow continuing. There has never ONCE been a jam there as long as I've been going to it, even when they were holding major blow-out sales in some of the stores.
I honestly hope it puts the other strip-mall out of business. This one has been designed wonderfully, and has given jobs back to our still-struggling economy.
Granted, a strip mall is not a place of worship. Still, these NIMBY shouting people need to think about the good of their community, rather than themselves for a change. If the Christian church can exist without causing a major traffic concern, then the Hindu Temple shouldn't cause any more of a problem.
Instead of looking at this new project as a threat, the pastor of Sonlife Community Church needs to think of this as an opportunity to bridge the gaps between religions and "make friends".... not that I think he actually will.
But this is his chance.
*Shakes Head* Jan 31st. at 12:42:09 am EST
SLiver of Jade (Eugene, Oregon) - Email Me - Web
"I just wish it was in another location."
Such as "not in my backyard?"
"Not In My Backyard" ? Jan 30th. at 10:26:47 pm EST
Youngermoon (Columbia, Texas) - Email Me
These two quotes are, I think quite revealing:
"I am not against it in any way. I know people need places to worship and this is something that is sorely needed by the Indian population, " said Planning Commissioner Peter Allan, who voted against the temple. "I just wish it was in another location."
The letter also noted that, "Certainly some of the commission will have other concerns with other aspects of this project ... such as the appropriateness of the proposed structure itself for the neighborhood or the appropriateness of placing a Hindu temple immediately adjacent to a Christian church."
I get the impression that some of the people in the community are all in favor of diversity as long as it is not in their back yard. Also, you wouldn't want an alternative religion's temple sitting there in plain sight of the church...bored parishioners might be tempted to wander down the street...
When you are in the business of absolute truth, diversity of opinion, or relativism, are a threat to your authority...
I Wonder? Jan 30th. at 8:26:53 pm EST
Ghostcatbce (Calgary, Alberta) - Email Me
At first I accepted completely the traffic problems were why they didn't want the temple built where it's planned. But that little note about there being "other concerns" makes me wonder if traffic is the only reason why the temple plans were rejected.