<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Aug 3 2008, 07:41 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Aug 3 2008, 07:41 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'>Who were the Vratyas - the searching wanderers?</span>
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The Vedic and the Jain traditions both glorify certain Kings who also were great religious Masters. In the Hindu tradition, Lord Rsabha - son of King Nabhi and Merudevi, and the ancestor of Emperor Bharata (after whom this land was named Bharatavarsha) is a very revered figure. The Rig Veda and Yajur Veda, too, mention Rishabhadeva and Aristanemi. According to the Jain tradition Rishabhadeva is the first Tirthankara of the present age(avasarpini); and, Aristanemi is the twenty-second Tirthankara.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A lengthy, detailed and interesting article.
comments from HH would be very helpful.
[right][snapback]85683[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->While we wait for HH:
In the books/papers that I read that discussed the name Rishabha in some detail, they said that the Jaina Tirthankara and the Hindu Rishabha were probably not the same. It may be similar to how modern day people assume that the name Gautama always refers to the Buddha when that is actually not true (e.g. Gautama Muni, Ramayanam). That is, not all ancient Dharmic texts speaking of Gautama mean to refer to Buddha at all.
It is very possible for important Dharmic characters to have had the same name in the past - something that happens particularly frequently in the present.
Though I can't find the references I am looking for at the moment, here is something from Koenraad Elst that touches on it:
http://www.bharatvani.org/books/wiah/ch7.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->31Mention of Rishabha in the Yajurveda (?Om nama arhato Rishabho??), along with two from the Vishnu and Bhagavata Puranas, are given as proof for the pre-Vedic antiquity of Jainism by T.K. Tukol: Compendium of Jainism, p.11-12. However, the oldest mention of one Rishabha is inside the Rigveda, and not even in the oldest part: Rishabha, son of Vishvamitra, is listed as composer of hymns 3:13 and 3:14 to Agni; there is nothing typically Jain about these hymns. For all we know, the Vedic Rishabha is not the same person as the founder of Jainism. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Again, it says the name may refer to two different persons.
Another reason I think it unlikely that the Rishabha who wrote the Vedic hymns could have been the Jaina Tirtankara is that Tirtankaras are very important to Jaina tradition yet the Vedas (to which the Vedic Rishabha made some contribution) specifically aren't.
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The Vedic and the Jain traditions both glorify certain Kings who also were great religious Masters. In the Hindu tradition, Lord Rsabha - son of King Nabhi and Merudevi, and the ancestor of Emperor Bharata (after whom this land was named Bharatavarsha) is a very revered figure. The Rig Veda and Yajur Veda, too, mention Rishabhadeva and Aristanemi. According to the Jain tradition Rishabhadeva is the first Tirthankara of the present age(avasarpini); and, Aristanemi is the twenty-second Tirthankara.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A lengthy, detailed and interesting article.
comments from HH would be very helpful.
[right][snapback]85683[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->While we wait for HH:
In the books/papers that I read that discussed the name Rishabha in some detail, they said that the Jaina Tirthankara and the Hindu Rishabha were probably not the same. It may be similar to how modern day people assume that the name Gautama always refers to the Buddha when that is actually not true (e.g. Gautama Muni, Ramayanam). That is, not all ancient Dharmic texts speaking of Gautama mean to refer to Buddha at all.
It is very possible for important Dharmic characters to have had the same name in the past - something that happens particularly frequently in the present.
Though I can't find the references I am looking for at the moment, here is something from Koenraad Elst that touches on it:
http://www.bharatvani.org/books/wiah/ch7.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->31Mention of Rishabha in the Yajurveda (?Om nama arhato Rishabho??), along with two from the Vishnu and Bhagavata Puranas, are given as proof for the pre-Vedic antiquity of Jainism by T.K. Tukol: Compendium of Jainism, p.11-12. However, the oldest mention of one Rishabha is inside the Rigveda, and not even in the oldest part: Rishabha, son of Vishvamitra, is listed as composer of hymns 3:13 and 3:14 to Agni; there is nothing typically Jain about these hymns. For all we know, the Vedic Rishabha is not the same person as the founder of Jainism. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Again, it says the name may refer to two different persons.
Another reason I think it unlikely that the Rishabha who wrote the Vedic hymns could have been the Jaina Tirtankara is that Tirtankaras are very important to Jaina tradition yet the Vedas (to which the Vedic Rishabha made some contribution) specifically aren't.