09-28-2008, 03:28 PM
Cardona on Panini's date
Francisco Brighenti:
<i>"â¦the Persians -- through the medium of which, in my view, the term Yavana/Yona (< Persian Yauna) was introduced into Gandhara â â¦"
The following is a link to George Cardona's discussion of the date of Panini contained in his book _Panini: A Survey of Research_(Paris 1976):
http://tinyurl. com/4pj3wm
"As everyone can see, on pp. 267-68 of the book Cardona concludes his
discussion with proposing a relative date range for Panini which extends from the mid sixth century (earliest estimated date, on which there is less consensus among scholars) to the early to mid fourth century BCE (latest estimated date, on which there is a much greater consensus among scholars). Cardona's *earliest* estimated date for Panini is, therefore, only 50 years earlier than 500 BCE, the
approximate time at which, in my reconstruction, the name Yavana
(occurring in Ashtadhyayi 4.1.49 in the feminine form yavanani) would have been introduced in N.W. Indo-Aryan languages through the medium of the Persians. This contradiction may, however, be solved by recalling that a later date for Panini is not only possible, but even more likely than a date at ca. 550 BCE."</i>
This is what Cardona really concludes:
<i>"3.1.7. Conclusion
The evidence for dating Panini, Katyayana and Patanjali is not absolutely probative and depends on interpretation. However, I think there is one certainty, namely that the evidence available hardly allows one to date Panini later than the early to mid fourth century B.C."</i> (G. Cardona, Panini: A Survey of Research, p.268)
Cardona begins on page 260 in section 3.1 with the dates of Panini, Katyayana and Patanjali. In section 3.1.1, Cardona already forwards his opinion reached in his conclusion:
<i>"Despite these divergent views, in none of the surveys of Paninian scholarship written to date ⦠is the evidence cited in support of these views summarized or evaluated, so that the reader could get the impression that opinions are not well founded or even whimsical.⦠Although the conclusion reached is not surprising (see section III.3.1.7), I believe a sifting of evidence is worthwhile."</i>
Cardona starts with the internal (3.1.2) and external evidences (3.1.3), leading nowhere definitely. And then moves on with the relative chronology, to determine the dates of Katyayana and Patanjali to approximate the date of Panini, also leading to nothing conclusively, except that it should be before the early to mid fourth century B.C.! Trying to estimate the intervals between Panini and
Katyayana and Katyayana and Patanjali in section 3.1.6, he arrives at this date, which is an assumption, as he admits:
<i>"All these factors require that Panini must have preceded Katyayana by some time. Now subjectivism enters in that one must suggest what would be a sufficient time to allow for these factors. If one accepts that Patanjali is to be dated at about 150 B.C. (see section III.3.1.4) and one assumes a gap of two hundred years between him and Katyayana (see S.P. Chaturvedi [1950:145]) and a similar gap between Katyayana and Patanjali (sic Panini), these authors are then assigned
respectively to the mid fourth and sixth centuries B.C. If, on the other hand, one accept the arguments proposed for placing Katyayana in the middle of the third century B.C. (see section III.3.1.5) and a similar gap of one hundred is allowed between Katyayana and Panini, then the latter is assigned to the early to mid fourth century B.C." </i>
While Cardona is very prudent, by others the Yavana and Kumara-shramaNaa arguments are given too much weight, still. And the word Yavana is interpreted to denote only an Ionian or Greek.
In Indian sources Yavanas are becoming degraded Kshatriyas speaking in a dialect form (Mleccha), once having a better position and not being treated as foreigners. Yavanas of King Bhagadatta in the Mahabharata are placed in south/southwest India before the Yadu migration scene to Dvaraka. It would not make sense for Yadus to migrate to the west if Yavanas attacked Mathura from the same west.
Greeks coming to Yavana Janapada (=not Bactria, but rather in Kandahar) became Yavanas. There is never a Greek Ionia in the east, which is neither stated in Persian inscriptions, nor by Herodotus.
It has already been put forward that shramaNaa can also denote a Jaina nun. Jainism precedes the Buddha. ('nuns' were also known to Hindu systems, like the Aupanishadika Sulabha).
The Sanskrit word shramaNa is derived from the Sanskrit verbal root shram "to exert, effort, labor or to perform austerity". shramaNa thus means "one who strives" in Sanskrit.
Shramati tapasyatîti shramaNaH ("a sramaNa is he who exerts himself and performs religious austerities" ). One of the earlier uses of the word is in Taittiriya Aranyaka (2-7-1) with the meaning of 'performer of austerities' . [Aranyakas, at least ca. 700 BCE, as per standard chronology]
Several shramaNa movements are known to have existed before the 6th century BCE, where they peaked during the times of Mahavira and Buddha. ShramaNas adopted a path alternate to the Vedic rituals to achieve salvation, while renouncing household life. .
Cardona doesn't put much weight upon internal (Yavana and shramaNaa issue) and external (two Paninis) evidence for dating Panini, he opts for the relative chronology, but admits it is an assumption based upon interpretation, it is subjectivism.
But, while Cardona doesn't put much weight upon the Yavana issue, the identity of that word with Ionian Greeks, places the date of Panini close to the Persian conquest of Gandhara, assuming that Yavana and Yauna must have a relation. And that rocks Panini's date to a range of ca. 550-350 BCE, all based upon the identity Yavana =Yauna-Ionia.
And every reasoning consequently is an elaboration and (re)interpretation based upon this conjecture.
If the late Shantiparva uses once the form Yauna for the older Yavana, but never Yona (5th/4th c. BCE Assalayanasutta), both forms Yauna (Pkt) and Yavana (Skt) must predate the Pali period Yona, which means that Panini predates the Pali period suttas.
At least one can see the word development from Yavana to Yauna, with the archaic word Javana with the same meaning of swiftness as Yavana (also curtain), within the same single work. But, none of these with preconceived minds mention the form "Yauna" and no one cared to look at what the Indian works really state about Yavanas from older layers to younger.
Francisco Brighenti:
<i>"â¦the Persians -- through the medium of which, in my view, the term Yavana/Yona (< Persian Yauna) was introduced into Gandhara â â¦"
The following is a link to George Cardona's discussion of the date of Panini contained in his book _Panini: A Survey of Research_(Paris 1976):
http://tinyurl. com/4pj3wm
"As everyone can see, on pp. 267-68 of the book Cardona concludes his
discussion with proposing a relative date range for Panini which extends from the mid sixth century (earliest estimated date, on which there is less consensus among scholars) to the early to mid fourth century BCE (latest estimated date, on which there is a much greater consensus among scholars). Cardona's *earliest* estimated date for Panini is, therefore, only 50 years earlier than 500 BCE, the
approximate time at which, in my reconstruction, the name Yavana
(occurring in Ashtadhyayi 4.1.49 in the feminine form yavanani) would have been introduced in N.W. Indo-Aryan languages through the medium of the Persians. This contradiction may, however, be solved by recalling that a later date for Panini is not only possible, but even more likely than a date at ca. 550 BCE."</i>
This is what Cardona really concludes:
<i>"3.1.7. Conclusion
The evidence for dating Panini, Katyayana and Patanjali is not absolutely probative and depends on interpretation. However, I think there is one certainty, namely that the evidence available hardly allows one to date Panini later than the early to mid fourth century B.C."</i> (G. Cardona, Panini: A Survey of Research, p.268)
Cardona begins on page 260 in section 3.1 with the dates of Panini, Katyayana and Patanjali. In section 3.1.1, Cardona already forwards his opinion reached in his conclusion:
<i>"Despite these divergent views, in none of the surveys of Paninian scholarship written to date ⦠is the evidence cited in support of these views summarized or evaluated, so that the reader could get the impression that opinions are not well founded or even whimsical.⦠Although the conclusion reached is not surprising (see section III.3.1.7), I believe a sifting of evidence is worthwhile."</i>
Cardona starts with the internal (3.1.2) and external evidences (3.1.3), leading nowhere definitely. And then moves on with the relative chronology, to determine the dates of Katyayana and Patanjali to approximate the date of Panini, also leading to nothing conclusively, except that it should be before the early to mid fourth century B.C.! Trying to estimate the intervals between Panini and
Katyayana and Katyayana and Patanjali in section 3.1.6, he arrives at this date, which is an assumption, as he admits:
<i>"All these factors require that Panini must have preceded Katyayana by some time. Now subjectivism enters in that one must suggest what would be a sufficient time to allow for these factors. If one accepts that Patanjali is to be dated at about 150 B.C. (see section III.3.1.4) and one assumes a gap of two hundred years between him and Katyayana (see S.P. Chaturvedi [1950:145]) and a similar gap between Katyayana and Patanjali (sic Panini), these authors are then assigned
respectively to the mid fourth and sixth centuries B.C. If, on the other hand, one accept the arguments proposed for placing Katyayana in the middle of the third century B.C. (see section III.3.1.5) and a similar gap of one hundred is allowed between Katyayana and Panini, then the latter is assigned to the early to mid fourth century B.C." </i>
While Cardona is very prudent, by others the Yavana and Kumara-shramaNaa arguments are given too much weight, still. And the word Yavana is interpreted to denote only an Ionian or Greek.
In Indian sources Yavanas are becoming degraded Kshatriyas speaking in a dialect form (Mleccha), once having a better position and not being treated as foreigners. Yavanas of King Bhagadatta in the Mahabharata are placed in south/southwest India before the Yadu migration scene to Dvaraka. It would not make sense for Yadus to migrate to the west if Yavanas attacked Mathura from the same west.
Greeks coming to Yavana Janapada (=not Bactria, but rather in Kandahar) became Yavanas. There is never a Greek Ionia in the east, which is neither stated in Persian inscriptions, nor by Herodotus.
It has already been put forward that shramaNaa can also denote a Jaina nun. Jainism precedes the Buddha. ('nuns' were also known to Hindu systems, like the Aupanishadika Sulabha).
The Sanskrit word shramaNa is derived from the Sanskrit verbal root shram "to exert, effort, labor or to perform austerity". shramaNa thus means "one who strives" in Sanskrit.
Shramati tapasyatîti shramaNaH ("a sramaNa is he who exerts himself and performs religious austerities" ). One of the earlier uses of the word is in Taittiriya Aranyaka (2-7-1) with the meaning of 'performer of austerities' . [Aranyakas, at least ca. 700 BCE, as per standard chronology]
Several shramaNa movements are known to have existed before the 6th century BCE, where they peaked during the times of Mahavira and Buddha. ShramaNas adopted a path alternate to the Vedic rituals to achieve salvation, while renouncing household life. .
Cardona doesn't put much weight upon internal (Yavana and shramaNaa issue) and external (two Paninis) evidence for dating Panini, he opts for the relative chronology, but admits it is an assumption based upon interpretation, it is subjectivism.
But, while Cardona doesn't put much weight upon the Yavana issue, the identity of that word with Ionian Greeks, places the date of Panini close to the Persian conquest of Gandhara, assuming that Yavana and Yauna must have a relation. And that rocks Panini's date to a range of ca. 550-350 BCE, all based upon the identity Yavana =Yauna-Ionia.
And every reasoning consequently is an elaboration and (re)interpretation based upon this conjecture.
If the late Shantiparva uses once the form Yauna for the older Yavana, but never Yona (5th/4th c. BCE Assalayanasutta), both forms Yauna (Pkt) and Yavana (Skt) must predate the Pali period Yona, which means that Panini predates the Pali period suttas.
At least one can see the word development from Yavana to Yauna, with the archaic word Javana with the same meaning of swiftness as Yavana (also curtain), within the same single work. But, none of these with preconceived minds mention the form "Yauna" and no one cared to look at what the Indian works really state about Yavanas from older layers to younger.