^ Greco-Romans on "voluntary retirement" (in its life-and-death meaning)
All following excerpts seem to be from http://christianism.com
Marcus considered himself a Stoic, but was apparently an Epicurean:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->During the lifetime of Epicurus and his three colleagues the chief competitors and adversaries were the Platonists and Peripatetics.
During the last two centuries B.C. the chief competitors and adversaries were the Stoics.
With the death of Cicero in 43 B.C. the stage of controversy came to an end, and after the turn of the century [first century C.E.] the process of syncretism was accelerated. This was the work of Stoics, and the chief names are those of Seneca, Musonius Rufus, Epictetus, and Marcus Aurelius.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"SENECA...DISSEMINATED EPICUREAN TEACHINGS UNDER THE BANNER OF STOICISM.87 [see 1602, 1603, 1604]" [315].<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->By the time of Marcus Aurelius [Emperor 161 - 180 (121 - 180)] they [Stoics] had incorporated so much of Epicureanism into their teachings that the guileless emperor in his Meditations is not even aware when he is voicing the precepts of the anonymous philosopher. Often only the label is Stoic. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Two interesting things:
1. Real roots of True Humanism and Secularism (as opposed to the fake christo-conditioned kind we see today and which is claimed as a product of enlightenment and which the holy-moly church says christoterrorism gave rise to).
2. The principles of free society in the west - not invented by founders of America but first proclaimed and implemented by the usual.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->'"Nature endears man to man."1 ["1Cicero." [106 - 43 B.C.E.]]
It was Cicero who first [?] uttered the word "Humanitas." With him there was no Jew or gentile, no Greek or barbarian. It was he who pronounced the immortal words, "Charitas Generis Humanae" and "Totius Complexus Gentis Humanae." He [Cicero] had no classification,--no sinners, no saints, no heirs of glory, or inheritors of damnation.4
"The world is my country."2 ["2Seneca." [c. 4 B.C.E. - 65 C.E.]]
"To do good my religion."1 ["1Thomas Paine." [1737 - 1809]]' [55-56].
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Actually Paine first repeated Seneca's line and thereafter the one on "doing good is my religio". See further below.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->[footnote (not referenced above)] '2How much the ethics of stoicism, as known in later times, was due to Zeno [Zeno of Citium c. 335 - c. 263 B.C.E.], the great master and founder of Greek stoicism, we do not know.--See The Stoics, Epicureans, and Sceptics (E. Zeller, London, 1870). He came to Athens from Cyprus after the conquest of Alexander, and established his school in the poecile stoa [see below]; he was a faithful and worthy successor of Socrates and Stilpo.--Reign of the Stoics (Holland, 1879). "The true philosopher," said Zeno, "is ever ready to serve the state."--Zeno in Seneca's Dialogues. He also declared "that he did not contend for his own liberty--not himself to live free, but to live among freemen."--John Stuart Mill on Liberty, 1874; Cato [?] on Seneca's [c. 4 B.C.E. - 65 C.E.] Epistles [?]. "I am human," said he, "therefore, no man is a stranger [echoes of Terence c. 190 - 159? B.C.E. "I am a man, I count nothing human foreign to me." (Ox. Dict. Quotations)]." Homo sum: humani nihil a me alienum puto.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>"Secularists. Secularism."</b>
'The founder of popular secularism in England seems to have been Mr George Jacob Holyoake, who formulated the system while imprisoned, with his friend Mr Charles Southwell, for blasphemy in 1841-1842. But such belief is as old as Confucius in China, and lay at the root of the Stoik philosophy of Marcus Aurelius. It was voiced in the life-long cry of <b>Thomas Paine: "The world is my country, and to do good is my religion."</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Paine has doubled Seneca's statement there.
While that Christian Heritage site on christoterrorism's genocides of native Americans shows how the idea of "United States" was based off the native American system of their United Nations, the remainder of the ideas can be traced back to here:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->INGERSOLL'S LECTURE ON WHICH WAY?
Can we believe a being of infinite mercy gave this command: "Put every man his sword by his side; go from the gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. Consecrate it, yourselves this day. Let every man lay his sword even upon his son, upon his brother, that he bestow blessing upon Me this day." Surely that was not the outcome of a great, magnanimous spirit, like that of the Roman emperor, who declared: "I had rather keep a single Roman citizen alive than slay a thousand enemies." Compare the last command given to the children of Israel with <b>the words of Marcus Aurelius: "I have formed an ideal of the State, in which there is the same law for all, and equal rights and equal liberty of speech established for all</b>--an Empire where <b>nothing is honored so much as the freedom of the citizens</b>." I am on the side of the Roman emperor.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"Epicurus rebelled against the highly regimented polity of Plato's Republic and the Laws and advocated instead a minimum of government. The function of government, he believed, was to guarantee the safety of the individual. This doctrine was anonymously revived by John Locke and espoused by Thomas Jefferson, who was an avowed Epicurean. It is consequently not surprising that Safety and Happiness, catchwords of Epicurus, should be named in the Declaration of Independence as the ends of government. Neither is it surprising that the same document should mention Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness; these concepts also are Epicurean....
In the main stream of prose and poetry it [EPICUREANISM] OFTEN SURVIVES UNDER STOIC LABELS. In the terminology and thought of religion it survives in spite of the obliviousness of New Testament scholars. In politics it has been a dominant, though nameless, influence ever since the succession of modern philosophers was started by Thomas Hobbes and John Locke during the brief vogue of Epicureanism in the Restoration period. In North America the Epicurean doctrine that the least government is the best government was virtually made to order for the circumstances of the Revolution, even if not a single Jeffersonian democrat was ever aware of its origin." [35]. [End of Chapter 1 ("A Synoptic View of Epicureanism" (see 1529))]. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
America ain't the land of the free. And it's certainly not an original, contrary to its common modern pretence aka delusions of grandeur. Copycatting without (properly or clearly) attributing the source is called plagiarism. Ergo, America is itself a plagiarism. <!--emo&:lol:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif' /><!--endemo--> And a failed one at that. Tsk, tsk. Spilled milk and all.
But self-deluding desperado Dinace Da Sauce <i>will</i> keep advertising his ignorance by writing that it was the christowest that 'ended slavery' and invented all the grand things that their real authors - them heathen Greco-Romans - had done almost 2 millennia prior.
Oh but yes, I know: we must spare Two Hoots For KKKolonialism.
And psecular ignorants in India <i>will</i> fawn over America like it's The Great Idea.
No - they're pirated ideas, and what's worse - badly executed ones. Still, there's all this annoying howling for implementing the christo American brand of secularism in India and whining for introducing fake progressive modernism in India.
If we're *going* to be copying people, can't we copy from the originals who at least had a clue as to what they were doing. (Not advocating wholesale copying, since there's a lot in our own history that Bharatam may find useful to pursue and reimplement as well, and which may work out better for its situation.)
Whenever Indian christoists say "christo American ideal" this or that, don't know why Hindus don't retort with the obvious facts: "Nah. It was the Greco-Roman Traditionalists that came up with it. How could christoism *ever* have? All they could do was destroy Rome." And then ref Gibbon with his Decline and Fall of Roma, and ref McCabe or someone like that.
All following excerpts seem to be from http://christianism.com
Marcus considered himself a Stoic, but was apparently an Epicurean:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->During the lifetime of Epicurus and his three colleagues the chief competitors and adversaries were the Platonists and Peripatetics.
During the last two centuries B.C. the chief competitors and adversaries were the Stoics.
With the death of Cicero in 43 B.C. the stage of controversy came to an end, and after the turn of the century [first century C.E.] the process of syncretism was accelerated. This was the work of Stoics, and the chief names are those of Seneca, Musonius Rufus, Epictetus, and Marcus Aurelius.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"SENECA...DISSEMINATED EPICUREAN TEACHINGS UNDER THE BANNER OF STOICISM.87 [see 1602, 1603, 1604]" [315].<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->By the time of Marcus Aurelius [Emperor 161 - 180 (121 - 180)] they [Stoics] had incorporated so much of Epicureanism into their teachings that the guileless emperor in his Meditations is not even aware when he is voicing the precepts of the anonymous philosopher. Often only the label is Stoic. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Two interesting things:
1. Real roots of True Humanism and Secularism (as opposed to the fake christo-conditioned kind we see today and which is claimed as a product of enlightenment and which the holy-moly church says christoterrorism gave rise to).
2. The principles of free society in the west - not invented by founders of America but first proclaimed and implemented by the usual.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->'"Nature endears man to man."1 ["1Cicero." [106 - 43 B.C.E.]]
It was Cicero who first [?] uttered the word "Humanitas." With him there was no Jew or gentile, no Greek or barbarian. It was he who pronounced the immortal words, "Charitas Generis Humanae" and "Totius Complexus Gentis Humanae." He [Cicero] had no classification,--no sinners, no saints, no heirs of glory, or inheritors of damnation.4
"The world is my country."2 ["2Seneca." [c. 4 B.C.E. - 65 C.E.]]
"To do good my religion."1 ["1Thomas Paine." [1737 - 1809]]' [55-56].
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Actually Paine first repeated Seneca's line and thereafter the one on "doing good is my religio". See further below.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->[footnote (not referenced above)] '2How much the ethics of stoicism, as known in later times, was due to Zeno [Zeno of Citium c. 335 - c. 263 B.C.E.], the great master and founder of Greek stoicism, we do not know.--See The Stoics, Epicureans, and Sceptics (E. Zeller, London, 1870). He came to Athens from Cyprus after the conquest of Alexander, and established his school in the poecile stoa [see below]; he was a faithful and worthy successor of Socrates and Stilpo.--Reign of the Stoics (Holland, 1879). "The true philosopher," said Zeno, "is ever ready to serve the state."--Zeno in Seneca's Dialogues. He also declared "that he did not contend for his own liberty--not himself to live free, but to live among freemen."--John Stuart Mill on Liberty, 1874; Cato [?] on Seneca's [c. 4 B.C.E. - 65 C.E.] Epistles [?]. "I am human," said he, "therefore, no man is a stranger [echoes of Terence c. 190 - 159? B.C.E. "I am a man, I count nothing human foreign to me." (Ox. Dict. Quotations)]." Homo sum: humani nihil a me alienum puto.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>"Secularists. Secularism."</b>
'The founder of popular secularism in England seems to have been Mr George Jacob Holyoake, who formulated the system while imprisoned, with his friend Mr Charles Southwell, for blasphemy in 1841-1842. But such belief is as old as Confucius in China, and lay at the root of the Stoik philosophy of Marcus Aurelius. It was voiced in the life-long cry of <b>Thomas Paine: "The world is my country, and to do good is my religion."</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Paine has doubled Seneca's statement there.
While that Christian Heritage site on christoterrorism's genocides of native Americans shows how the idea of "United States" was based off the native American system of their United Nations, the remainder of the ideas can be traced back to here:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->INGERSOLL'S LECTURE ON WHICH WAY?
Can we believe a being of infinite mercy gave this command: "Put every man his sword by his side; go from the gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. Consecrate it, yourselves this day. Let every man lay his sword even upon his son, upon his brother, that he bestow blessing upon Me this day." Surely that was not the outcome of a great, magnanimous spirit, like that of the Roman emperor, who declared: "I had rather keep a single Roman citizen alive than slay a thousand enemies." Compare the last command given to the children of Israel with <b>the words of Marcus Aurelius: "I have formed an ideal of the State, in which there is the same law for all, and equal rights and equal liberty of speech established for all</b>--an Empire where <b>nothing is honored so much as the freedom of the citizens</b>." I am on the side of the Roman emperor.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"Epicurus rebelled against the highly regimented polity of Plato's Republic and the Laws and advocated instead a minimum of government. The function of government, he believed, was to guarantee the safety of the individual. This doctrine was anonymously revived by John Locke and espoused by Thomas Jefferson, who was an avowed Epicurean. It is consequently not surprising that Safety and Happiness, catchwords of Epicurus, should be named in the Declaration of Independence as the ends of government. Neither is it surprising that the same document should mention Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness; these concepts also are Epicurean....
In the main stream of prose and poetry it [EPICUREANISM] OFTEN SURVIVES UNDER STOIC LABELS. In the terminology and thought of religion it survives in spite of the obliviousness of New Testament scholars. In politics it has been a dominant, though nameless, influence ever since the succession of modern philosophers was started by Thomas Hobbes and John Locke during the brief vogue of Epicureanism in the Restoration period. In North America the Epicurean doctrine that the least government is the best government was virtually made to order for the circumstances of the Revolution, even if not a single Jeffersonian democrat was ever aware of its origin." [35]. [End of Chapter 1 ("A Synoptic View of Epicureanism" (see 1529))]. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
America ain't the land of the free. And it's certainly not an original, contrary to its common modern pretence aka delusions of grandeur. Copycatting without (properly or clearly) attributing the source is called plagiarism. Ergo, America is itself a plagiarism. <!--emo&:lol:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif' /><!--endemo--> And a failed one at that. Tsk, tsk. Spilled milk and all.
But self-deluding desperado Dinace Da Sauce <i>will</i> keep advertising his ignorance by writing that it was the christowest that 'ended slavery' and invented all the grand things that their real authors - them heathen Greco-Romans - had done almost 2 millennia prior.
Oh but yes, I know: we must spare Two Hoots For KKKolonialism.
And psecular ignorants in India <i>will</i> fawn over America like it's The Great Idea.
No - they're pirated ideas, and what's worse - badly executed ones. Still, there's all this annoying howling for implementing the christo American brand of secularism in India and whining for introducing fake progressive modernism in India.
If we're *going* to be copying people, can't we copy from the originals who at least had a clue as to what they were doing. (Not advocating wholesale copying, since there's a lot in our own history that Bharatam may find useful to pursue and reimplement as well, and which may work out better for its situation.)
Whenever Indian christoists say "christo American ideal" this or that, don't know why Hindus don't retort with the obvious facts: "Nah. It was the Greco-Roman Traditionalists that came up with it. How could christoism *ever* have? All they could do was destroy Rome." And then ref Gibbon with his Decline and Fall of Roma, and ref McCabe or someone like that.