<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Oct 14 2008, 02:58 AM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Oct 14 2008, 02:58 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->"In a shocking throwback to medieval times"[right][snapback]89120[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->"Medieval times" does not merely refer to a specific period in time but also denotes a specific place: christoEurope. In christo Europe the christos burnt their women in medieval times.
So what "throwback to medieval times" are they talking about here? <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> How in the universe is there any relation with the instance of a Hindu woman in Bharatam committing sati (=voluntary death by fire). A world of difference between the two. Only cryptos would make it their express point to not 'notice' the ravine of unrelatedness separating the two situations.
http://freetruth.50webs.org/A2d.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In the name of Christ, Christian potentates sat with their women and children and watched helpless Christians burn.
Great vicars of Christ sat and gloated while Christians bound to stakes shrieked amid slow flames purposely kept at a distance.
They screamed as their flesh seared and crackled: "In the name of the sweet Jesus whom I worship, bring the fire closer". But their appeals were mocked. Not once, not twice, but tens of thousands of times.
<i>-- Why I Quit Going To Church, historian Rupert Hughes</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Most victims pleaded for death sooner or later, but pious ones were further tormented by visions of the hellfire that awaited them, dying with lies on their lips. A housewife named Rebecca Lemp sent letters from prison to her husband and six children, showing radical alterations in her attitude before and after torture. At first she was confident:
  My dearly beloved Husband, be not troubled. Were I to be charged by thousands of accusations, I am innocent, else may all the demons in hell come and tear me to pieces. Were they to pulverize me, cut me in a thousand pieces, I could not confess anything. Therefore do not be alarmed; before my conscience and before my soul I am innocent. Will I be tortured-I don't believe it, since I am not guilty of anything.
<b>After she had been tortured five times</b>, and had confessed every enormity her tormentors suggested to her, <b>Rebecca wrote again to her husband:</b>
  O thou, the chosen of my heart, must I be parted from thee, though entirely innocent? If so, may God be followed throughout eternity by my reproaches. They force one and make one confess; they have so tortured me. ... Husband, send me something that I may die, or I must expire under the torture. ... Send me something, else may I peril even my soul.
<i>-- The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, by Barbara Walker</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Torture</b>
Although being burnt to death certainly is a form of torture, it was not long before other methods were applied.
  <!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The power of the Inquisition was established and enlarged by a series of papal bulls. [Link] http://www.quest.za.net/pages/readonline...er8EB.html<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In 1245, the Pope gave Inquisitors the right to absolve their assistants of any acts of violence which they might commit in the fulfillment of their duties.
  Following church traditions, Inquisitor Franciso Pena declared in 1578 that:
    We must remember that the main purpose of the trial and execution is not to save the soul of the accused but to achieve the public good and put fear into others.
Link http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/chri...inquisition.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->In 1252, Pope Innocent IV sanctioned the use of torture in the extraction of confessions of heresy during the Inquisition by issuing the bull <b>Ad extirpanda "to be exterminated".</b> This ordered all secular rulers to arrest and execute non-Catholic Christians. (Of course, Protestantism did not yet exist at this time, only other "heresies".)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"When those adjudged guilty of heresy have been given up to the civil power by the bishop or his representative, or the Inquisition, the podesta or chief magistrate of the city shall take them at once, and shall within five days at the most, execute the laws made against them."
<i>Â Â -- Papal bull, Ad extirpanda</i>
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Torture of suspects was authorized by Pope Innocent IV in 1252, and thus inquisition chambers were turned into places of abject horror.
  ...Torture was not finally removed as a legal option for church officials until 1917 when the Codex Juris Canonici was put into effect.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Link http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/chri...inquisition.htm<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The inquisitors, gorged with their inhumanity, developed a degree of callousness rarely rivalled in the annals of civilisation.
Many of the inquisitors were sadists. Many were libidinous monsters. They took such women as they wanted, on trumped-up charges of heresy, and kept them for the rest of their days as mistresses.
<i>-- The History of Torture, by George Ryley Scott</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Thus, when Napoleon invaded Spain in 1808, the French found that the Inquisition there was still in full swing:
  When the French troops captured the city of Aragon (Spain), Lieutenant-General M de Legal ordered the doors of the Inquisition to be opened, and the prisoners, numbering some 400, to be released.
  Among these were 60 beautiful young women who appeared to form a seraglio for the three principal inquisitors.
<i>Â Â -- The History of Torture, by George Ryley Scott</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Now tell me, why are my sensibilities supposed to be shocked/offended when an elderly Hindu woman - possibly out of love for husband and her ancestors, following her old way of life and perhaps even with a personal sense of duty - chooses to burn herself on her husband's pyre? How would that bother me?
Besides, people could have NO sensibilities left to shock after a cursory glance over European history when it was under the absolute grip of christoism (next post).
So what "throwback to medieval times" are they talking about here? <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> How in the universe is there any relation with the instance of a Hindu woman in Bharatam committing sati (=voluntary death by fire). A world of difference between the two. Only cryptos would make it their express point to not 'notice' the ravine of unrelatedness separating the two situations.
http://freetruth.50webs.org/A2d.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In the name of Christ, Christian potentates sat with their women and children and watched helpless Christians burn.
Great vicars of Christ sat and gloated while Christians bound to stakes shrieked amid slow flames purposely kept at a distance.
They screamed as their flesh seared and crackled: "In the name of the sweet Jesus whom I worship, bring the fire closer". But their appeals were mocked. Not once, not twice, but tens of thousands of times.
<i>-- Why I Quit Going To Church, historian Rupert Hughes</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Most victims pleaded for death sooner or later, but pious ones were further tormented by visions of the hellfire that awaited them, dying with lies on their lips. A housewife named Rebecca Lemp sent letters from prison to her husband and six children, showing radical alterations in her attitude before and after torture. At first she was confident:
  My dearly beloved Husband, be not troubled. Were I to be charged by thousands of accusations, I am innocent, else may all the demons in hell come and tear me to pieces. Were they to pulverize me, cut me in a thousand pieces, I could not confess anything. Therefore do not be alarmed; before my conscience and before my soul I am innocent. Will I be tortured-I don't believe it, since I am not guilty of anything.
<b>After she had been tortured five times</b>, and had confessed every enormity her tormentors suggested to her, <b>Rebecca wrote again to her husband:</b>
  O thou, the chosen of my heart, must I be parted from thee, though entirely innocent? If so, may God be followed throughout eternity by my reproaches. They force one and make one confess; they have so tortured me. ... Husband, send me something that I may die, or I must expire under the torture. ... Send me something, else may I peril even my soul.
<i>-- The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, by Barbara Walker</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Torture</b>
Although being burnt to death certainly is a form of torture, it was not long before other methods were applied.
  <!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The power of the Inquisition was established and enlarged by a series of papal bulls. [Link] http://www.quest.za.net/pages/readonline...er8EB.html<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In 1245, the Pope gave Inquisitors the right to absolve their assistants of any acts of violence which they might commit in the fulfillment of their duties.
  Following church traditions, Inquisitor Franciso Pena declared in 1578 that:
    We must remember that the main purpose of the trial and execution is not to save the soul of the accused but to achieve the public good and put fear into others.
Link http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/chri...inquisition.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->In 1252, Pope Innocent IV sanctioned the use of torture in the extraction of confessions of heresy during the Inquisition by issuing the bull <b>Ad extirpanda "to be exterminated".</b> This ordered all secular rulers to arrest and execute non-Catholic Christians. (Of course, Protestantism did not yet exist at this time, only other "heresies".)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"When those adjudged guilty of heresy have been given up to the civil power by the bishop or his representative, or the Inquisition, the podesta or chief magistrate of the city shall take them at once, and shall within five days at the most, execute the laws made against them."
<i>Â Â -- Papal bull, Ad extirpanda</i>
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Torture of suspects was authorized by Pope Innocent IV in 1252, and thus inquisition chambers were turned into places of abject horror.
  ...Torture was not finally removed as a legal option for church officials until 1917 when the Codex Juris Canonici was put into effect.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Link http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/chri...inquisition.htm<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The inquisitors, gorged with their inhumanity, developed a degree of callousness rarely rivalled in the annals of civilisation.
Many of the inquisitors were sadists. Many were libidinous monsters. They took such women as they wanted, on trumped-up charges of heresy, and kept them for the rest of their days as mistresses.
<i>-- The History of Torture, by George Ryley Scott</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Thus, when Napoleon invaded Spain in 1808, the French found that the Inquisition there was still in full swing:
  When the French troops captured the city of Aragon (Spain), Lieutenant-General M de Legal ordered the doors of the Inquisition to be opened, and the prisoners, numbering some 400, to be released.
  Among these were 60 beautiful young women who appeared to form a seraglio for the three principal inquisitors.
<i>Â Â -- The History of Torture, by George Ryley Scott</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Now tell me, why are my sensibilities supposed to be shocked/offended when an elderly Hindu woman - possibly out of love for husband and her ancestors, following her old way of life and perhaps even with a personal sense of duty - chooses to burn herself on her husband's pyre? How would that bother me?
Besides, people could have NO sensibilities left to shock after a cursory glance over European history when it was under the absolute grip of christoism (next post).