11-10-2004, 01:31 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-sridhar k+Nov 10 2004, 09:26 AM-->QUOTE(sridhar k @ Nov 10 2004, 09:26 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Does it not sounds similar to the 5th shloka in Srimad Bhagvat Gita Ch:12 ? Again . Is the workship or (identification) of the Nirguna Brahman called the Avyakthobasana, that Bhagavan talks about ?
In the Bhagavat Gita Book, there is a reference to Madhvacharya's commentary on the Bhagavat Gita insisting this point.
BTW, i wanted to ask, what is the actual meaning of the term avyaktham . Is avyaktham = Nirguna Brahman? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sridhar Aiya, Your quotation of Srimadh Bhagavad Gita 12:5 is quite apt..
<i><b>Klesho'adikatharasthesham Avykaktha asaktha chethasaam.
Avyaktha hi gathir dhukham dehavadbir'avaapsyathe...</b></i>
This connects with shloka 7.24, and 2.28
<i><b>Avyaktam vyaktim aapannam manyante maam abuddhayah
param bhaavam ajaananto mamavyayam anuttamam. 7.24
Avyaktaadini bhutani Vyakta-madhyani bharata
Avyakta-nidhananyeva Tatra ka paridevana.. 2:28</b></i>
As far as I understand the word Avyakta, it simply means UNMANIFEST, and not necessarily Impersonal or Absolute. Avyaktam usually means something that is not manifest YET. Something in it's causal form, which is not perceived by the five sense organs, nor is graspable by the mind ordinarily. Sometimes Maya is also called Avyakta. A seed is Avyakta, while a tree is vyaktha. Vyakthi (usually meaning person) means, the otherwise Unmanifest Consciousness, in a manifest-form.
As 2:28 explains, all 'beings' began as the causal state, and then identifies with the subtle, and gross body gradually.. This is what knowers call 'evolution' or pravritthi. During nivritthi, (involution?) the VYAKTHI goes back to it's causal form. (Yasmin sarvaani bhuthani bhavanthyaadhi yugagame, yasminscha pralayam yaanthi, punareva yugakshaye.) The Unmanifest state remains till the next cycle of creation begins.
7:24 and 12:5 say pretty much the same thing. Here Sri Bhagavaan says that those 'jivas' where the consciousness identifies itself with the body will have difficult grasping the concept that it is the Unmanifest. In this state, the mind will still try and think of Sri Krishna as the body sitting on a chariot blowing a conch 5000 years ago. They think that they are the body, and hence God will be a human shaped entity too. Because 'they' have feelings and emotions of pleasure and servitude, God will have the same feelings too. This is the leading error (Saamvadi Bhrama) that one commits. The Avyaktha is purely a saakshi who is an impartial observer.
With the Lord's Grace, and by meditating on the Mahavakyas, (Sravana, Manana, Nidhidhyasana) one can overcome this identification with the impermanent, and realize that only the Self exists.
Easier said that done? I think it is easier done than said.
In the Bhagavat Gita Book, there is a reference to Madhvacharya's commentary on the Bhagavat Gita insisting this point.
BTW, i wanted to ask, what is the actual meaning of the term avyaktham . Is avyaktham = Nirguna Brahman? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sridhar Aiya, Your quotation of Srimadh Bhagavad Gita 12:5 is quite apt..
<i><b>Klesho'adikatharasthesham Avykaktha asaktha chethasaam.
Avyaktha hi gathir dhukham dehavadbir'avaapsyathe...</b></i>
This connects with shloka 7.24, and 2.28
<i><b>Avyaktam vyaktim aapannam manyante maam abuddhayah
param bhaavam ajaananto mamavyayam anuttamam. 7.24
Avyaktaadini bhutani Vyakta-madhyani bharata
Avyakta-nidhananyeva Tatra ka paridevana.. 2:28</b></i>
As far as I understand the word Avyakta, it simply means UNMANIFEST, and not necessarily Impersonal or Absolute. Avyaktam usually means something that is not manifest YET. Something in it's causal form, which is not perceived by the five sense organs, nor is graspable by the mind ordinarily. Sometimes Maya is also called Avyakta. A seed is Avyakta, while a tree is vyaktha. Vyakthi (usually meaning person) means, the otherwise Unmanifest Consciousness, in a manifest-form.
As 2:28 explains, all 'beings' began as the causal state, and then identifies with the subtle, and gross body gradually.. This is what knowers call 'evolution' or pravritthi. During nivritthi, (involution?) the VYAKTHI goes back to it's causal form. (Yasmin sarvaani bhuthani bhavanthyaadhi yugagame, yasminscha pralayam yaanthi, punareva yugakshaye.) The Unmanifest state remains till the next cycle of creation begins.
7:24 and 12:5 say pretty much the same thing. Here Sri Bhagavaan says that those 'jivas' where the consciousness identifies itself with the body will have difficult grasping the concept that it is the Unmanifest. In this state, the mind will still try and think of Sri Krishna as the body sitting on a chariot blowing a conch 5000 years ago. They think that they are the body, and hence God will be a human shaped entity too. Because 'they' have feelings and emotions of pleasure and servitude, God will have the same feelings too. This is the leading error (Saamvadi Bhrama) that one commits. The Avyaktha is purely a saakshi who is an impartial observer.
With the Lord's Grace, and by meditating on the Mahavakyas, (Sravana, Manana, Nidhidhyasana) one can overcome this identification with the impermanent, and realize that only the Self exists.
Easier said that done? I think it is easier done than said.