Vedanta - Discussion Forum I (introductory))

[gangajal]

<!--QuoteBegin-sridhar k+Nov 10 2004, 09:26 AM-->QUOTE(sridhar k @ Nov 10 2004, 09:26 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Gangajalji,

Thanks for the explanation. 

<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
This is the reason why Ramakrishna Vedanta does not accept Kevala Advaita's position that Hindu Gods and Goddesses are ultimately unreal. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Did Shankara say so ? I wanted to confirm that Shankara's advaita is not Kevala advaita. and does Shankara refute the validity of personal God? If yes, then why Bhaja Govindam and Soundarya Lahiri?

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> According to Ramakrishna personal forms of Gods and Godesses are frozen consciosuness like ice due to the cooling effect of Bhakti while Brahman the impersonal reality is like water due to the heating effect of the sun of Jnana <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As Sunder ji pointed out earlier about Buddha being a avatara or not, when everything is Brahman, so does a Personal god and even a lowly life form. The way a agnani like me see it is Personal Gods and Godess are the manifestation of the Brahman in the Mayic Domain ( Saguna Brahman) and while the real formeless Brahman (Nirguna) is outside as well as inside the Mayic domain.

The only problem is that i understand these realities but realization is a far cry. Inshah Krishna ( <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> , realization is achievable.

Another question regarding
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> There are some people, however, who do not care about that highest experience and want to retain some difference with Brahman. These people who want to retain some difference stay in Brahmalok for the rest of this cycle and are released when this cycle ends.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Don't the Vishistadvaitis fall under this category?




B <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sridhar ji,

Shankara's Advaita is kevala Advaita. Shankara's position is that Bhakti leads to purification of mind (chittasuddhi) and then one can strive for mukti. This is the reason for Bhaja Govindam and Soundarya Lahari. They are aids for chittasuddhi.

What Ramakrishna is saying in his analogy of frozen consciousness (ice) and water is that Saguna Brahman and Nriguna Brahmana are not two things. Saguna Brahman is Nirguna Brahman seen through the veil of Maya. Nirguna Brahman appears to the aspirant as Saguna Brahman as long as she has an I sense. What happens when the aspirant looses her I-sense can not be expressed in words. This is why Sruti says that words can not express Brahman.

Yes, Vishistadvaitas fall into the category fo people who do not want complete union.