Vedanta - Discussion Forum I (introductory))

[gangajal]

<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Nov 11 2004, 03:04 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Nov 11 2004, 03:04 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Guroos,

This is the reason I asked what does it mean when one school refutes the other. One cannot say one is founding a new vedanta which says i-am-immortal because one is not and that is for all to see. So at a very simple level one has to posit something that <b>at the very least cannot be negated.</b> Some go about this saying this is all god's will and he said it in XYZ AD or whatever and it was revealed to XYZ and thats that. Either you believe or you dont. There is no way you can say that is not true. You can choose to believe or you cannot or maybe the third way out is you can say maybe its true and may be its not.

Now indic schools and mahatmas and avataras (the little i know of them) said such-and-such is the case and may be even its true but when somebody comes out and says the exact opposite - advaita (diff versions) and dvaita - does one come out and say that is not true ? The person who proposes dvaita - can we safely say that he has had more experiences & has read more (and hence knows more) then any of us here have ? If he proposes something - is he being false ? Are his experiences not true ? How can we say our experiences are better placed then his experiences to judge that what he proposes is just one step in the direction to advaita ?

In "ekam sat.." does sat mean advaita ? Or does it mean mukti ? How can we reconcile these positions ? If we say sat=mukti then we can say all schools are cool but if we say sat=advaita-proposal we are saying dvaita is false or are we ? I would like to think we are not.. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Also another possibly unrelated question -> isnt the desire for mukti another desire ? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rajesh,
The question is not whether the Dvaita or Advaita experiences are true or false. Everybody agrees that the dvaita, Vishistadvaita and advaita systems are based on actual experiences. The only question is which one of them is the ultimate experience. It is at this point that real differences occur.

Sat is not mukti. Sat is existence.

Desire for mukti is also desire but a good desire. It is only at the very highest level that you have to give up that desire. I have given below a poem by Ramprasad a Sakta master. He gives up desire and even desire for liberation after he has become master - not before that.

Once for all, this time, I have thoroughly understood.
From one who knows it well, I have learnt the secret of bhava(spiritual
mood).
A man has come to me from a country where there is no night,
And now I can not distinguish day from night any longer:
Rituals and Devotions have all grown profitless for me.

My sleep is broken: how can I sleep any more?
For now I am wide awake in the sleeplessness of Yoga.
O Divine Mother, made one with thee in yoga-sleep at last,
My slumber I have lulled asleep evermore.

I bow my head, says Prasad, before desire and liberation;
Knowing the secret that Kali is one with the highest Brahman,
I have discarded, once for all both righteousness and sin.