<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Dec 14 2008, 02:02 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Dec 14 2008, 02:02 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->email
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]
It is possible that Pandyans are an "Aryan tribe"Â unlike Cholas. This surmise is sought to be proved as below:
1.   It is shown above that the word Pandya is derived from Pandu
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->[right][snapback]91821[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That the Pandyans are a Kuru tribe or closely related to the Kuru dynasty was already discussed in an earlier post by Ishwa. And it is to be noted that the Cholas were also included. (But don't know the relevance of the still-fantastical "Oryans" - or Dravidoids, for that matter - in any discussion on historical Hindu tribes such as those related in the Mahabharatam.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Ishwa+Sep 8 2008, 05:23 PM-->QUOTE(Ishwa @ Sep 8 2008, 05:23 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Notes Wlson:
442:4 Besides Bharata, who, as will be hereafter seen, was the son of Dushyanta, the Váyu, Matsya, Agni, and Bráhma PuránÌas enumerate several descendants in this line, for the purpose evidently of introducing, as the posterity of Turvasu, the nations of the south of India: the series is Varuttha, (Karutthama, Bráhma), <b>ÃndÃra</b> (ÃkrÃra, Bráhma); whose sons are <b>PánÌdÌya, KarnÌátÌa, Chola, Kerala</b>; the Hari V. adds Kola, and the Agni very incorrectly Gandhára.
Turvasus, thus according to the Puranas, were in the SE (of Aryavarta) and one branch merged with Purus, went to the south, and one went to the west (Bhagavata development): Agnipurana may be correct that they went further to Gandhara. These are the Yavanas. Says the Mahabharata:
yadostu yaadavaa jaataasturvasostu yavanah smrtah (MBh adiparva 136)
(One may wonder whether the Yavanas had not initially some (adopted) Munda or Dravidian affinities, before they moved on.)[right][snapback]87693[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"PánÌdÌya, KarnÌátÌa, Chola, Kerala"
That's at least one tribe of Karnataka, two of TN, one of Kerala.
(Since I don't know Samskritam, Andhra may merely have a meaning that is connected with direction like Uttara in Uttara Pradesh and Madhya in Madhya Pradesh; but if not, perhaps Andhra may be related to the above-mentioned "ÃndÃra"? After all, word games seem to have more firm support in actuality in the Indian context.)
Also from Ishwa's post 234 of the Ancient Indian History, INDIAN CIVILIZATION thread:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->shakA yavana kAmbojAH pAradAH cha vishAmpate |
kolisarpAH sa mahiShA dArdyAH cholAH sa keralAH || 1-14-18
sarve te kShatriyAH tAta dharmaH teShAM nirAkR^itaH |
vasiShTha vachanAt rAjan sagareNa mahAtmanA || 1-14-19
In fact, all the shaka-s, yavanA-s, kAmboja-s, pArada-s, koli-sarpa-s, mahiSha-s, dArdya-s <b>chola-s, and kerala-s, are kshatriya-s only</b>... but, emperor sagara precluded them from kshatriya dharma for their unprincipled actions, according to the verdict of sage vashiSTha.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that's not all. There was a book on Hindu folk beliefs of Tamizh Nadu that I looked through many years ago (it wasn't so exciting to read back then as its contents appear to me now). IIRC, it mentioned some 5 or 6 Tamizh communities as being *among several* Tamizh ones that traced themselves back to the royal or other Kshatriya lineages of the Mahabharatam. And it also mentioned that there were communities in TN that counted themselves among *other* Hindu lineages mentioned in the same literature.
In other respects also, TN does not consider itself unconnected to the Mahabharatam. For instance:
http://www.hindubooks.org/temples/tamilnad...koil/page13.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>AZHAGAR KOIL</b>
There is also another story connected with this doorway. In the army of the Naick King there was a soldie r named Madurai Veeran (Warrior of Madurai) whom the princess loved and with whom she eloped to some unknown place. After their death, the story says, they were deified and worshipped.
Madurai Veeran is also known as Patinettuppadi Karuppan (guard of 18 steps).
Round about this ancient temple are the ruins of an old fortified town covering an area of 100 acres. It is said that the <b>Naga Princess Uloopi</b> who, according to the Mahabharata story, married Arjuna <b>ruled this place</b>. There is no doubt that Nagas once inhabited the mountain. There is a temple dedicated to Naganatha and further many images of Nagas can be seen on the mountain.
Naga worship is being conducted even today in this locality. There are many Mantapams and gopurams with images and sculptures of exquisite beauty and grace.The walls of the Vasanta.Mandapam inside the temple are blazoned with fine frescoes illustrative of the story of the Ramayana.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->In the above, Nagas refer to the Snake Gods (Naga Devas) and beings (not the Hindu community in the NE who are <i>also</i> called Nagas).
There is a deep ancientry to Hindu populations, many are 'curiously' accounted for in our ancient past. (Very 'curious', considering that modern christo-forgers will have it that we are a non-historic nation with no sense of history and no realisation that we all arrived in our country only recently. Whether we all came just after or just before christianism I forget - it will be whichever they decide tomorrow is most convenient for their jeebus-peddling/terrorism.)
That ancient Hindus travelled up and down and left and right within Bharatam was never contradicted by our literature and even genetics seems to bear this out.
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]
It is possible that Pandyans are an "Aryan tribe"Â unlike Cholas. This surmise is sought to be proved as below:
1.   It is shown above that the word Pandya is derived from Pandu
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->[right][snapback]91821[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That the Pandyans are a Kuru tribe or closely related to the Kuru dynasty was already discussed in an earlier post by Ishwa. And it is to be noted that the Cholas were also included. (But don't know the relevance of the still-fantastical "Oryans" - or Dravidoids, for that matter - in any discussion on historical Hindu tribes such as those related in the Mahabharatam.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Ishwa+Sep 8 2008, 05:23 PM-->QUOTE(Ishwa @ Sep 8 2008, 05:23 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Notes Wlson:
442:4 Besides Bharata, who, as will be hereafter seen, was the son of Dushyanta, the Váyu, Matsya, Agni, and Bráhma PuránÌas enumerate several descendants in this line, for the purpose evidently of introducing, as the posterity of Turvasu, the nations of the south of India: the series is Varuttha, (Karutthama, Bráhma), <b>ÃndÃra</b> (ÃkrÃra, Bráhma); whose sons are <b>PánÌdÌya, KarnÌátÌa, Chola, Kerala</b>; the Hari V. adds Kola, and the Agni very incorrectly Gandhára.
Turvasus, thus according to the Puranas, were in the SE (of Aryavarta) and one branch merged with Purus, went to the south, and one went to the west (Bhagavata development): Agnipurana may be correct that they went further to Gandhara. These are the Yavanas. Says the Mahabharata:
yadostu yaadavaa jaataasturvasostu yavanah smrtah (MBh adiparva 136)
(One may wonder whether the Yavanas had not initially some (adopted) Munda or Dravidian affinities, before they moved on.)[right][snapback]87693[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"PánÌdÌya, KarnÌátÌa, Chola, Kerala"
That's at least one tribe of Karnataka, two of TN, one of Kerala.
(Since I don't know Samskritam, Andhra may merely have a meaning that is connected with direction like Uttara in Uttara Pradesh and Madhya in Madhya Pradesh; but if not, perhaps Andhra may be related to the above-mentioned "ÃndÃra"? After all, word games seem to have more firm support in actuality in the Indian context.)
Also from Ishwa's post 234 of the Ancient Indian History, INDIAN CIVILIZATION thread:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->shakA yavana kAmbojAH pAradAH cha vishAmpate |
kolisarpAH sa mahiShA dArdyAH cholAH sa keralAH || 1-14-18
sarve te kShatriyAH tAta dharmaH teShAM nirAkR^itaH |
vasiShTha vachanAt rAjan sagareNa mahAtmanA || 1-14-19
In fact, all the shaka-s, yavanA-s, kAmboja-s, pArada-s, koli-sarpa-s, mahiSha-s, dArdya-s <b>chola-s, and kerala-s, are kshatriya-s only</b>... but, emperor sagara precluded them from kshatriya dharma for their unprincipled actions, according to the verdict of sage vashiSTha.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that's not all. There was a book on Hindu folk beliefs of Tamizh Nadu that I looked through many years ago (it wasn't so exciting to read back then as its contents appear to me now). IIRC, it mentioned some 5 or 6 Tamizh communities as being *among several* Tamizh ones that traced themselves back to the royal or other Kshatriya lineages of the Mahabharatam. And it also mentioned that there were communities in TN that counted themselves among *other* Hindu lineages mentioned in the same literature.
In other respects also, TN does not consider itself unconnected to the Mahabharatam. For instance:
http://www.hindubooks.org/temples/tamilnad...koil/page13.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>AZHAGAR KOIL</b>
There is also another story connected with this doorway. In the army of the Naick King there was a soldie r named Madurai Veeran (Warrior of Madurai) whom the princess loved and with whom she eloped to some unknown place. After their death, the story says, they were deified and worshipped.
Madurai Veeran is also known as Patinettuppadi Karuppan (guard of 18 steps).
Round about this ancient temple are the ruins of an old fortified town covering an area of 100 acres. It is said that the <b>Naga Princess Uloopi</b> who, according to the Mahabharata story, married Arjuna <b>ruled this place</b>. There is no doubt that Nagas once inhabited the mountain. There is a temple dedicated to Naganatha and further many images of Nagas can be seen on the mountain.
Naga worship is being conducted even today in this locality. There are many Mantapams and gopurams with images and sculptures of exquisite beauty and grace.The walls of the Vasanta.Mandapam inside the temple are blazoned with fine frescoes illustrative of the story of the Ramayana.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->In the above, Nagas refer to the Snake Gods (Naga Devas) and beings (not the Hindu community in the NE who are <i>also</i> called Nagas).
There is a deep ancientry to Hindu populations, many are 'curiously' accounted for in our ancient past. (Very 'curious', considering that modern christo-forgers will have it that we are a non-historic nation with no sense of history and no realisation that we all arrived in our country only recently. Whether we all came just after or just before christianism I forget - it will be whichever they decide tomorrow is most convenient for their jeebus-peddling/terrorism.)
That ancient Hindus travelled up and down and left and right within Bharatam was never contradicted by our literature and even genetics seems to bear this out.
Death to traitors.