12-02-2004, 08:13 AM
GS,
Are you refereing to book referred in this article
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives
I've just read much of Stephen Oppenheimer's book on the real Eve that I ordered from amazon.com. It's really right on target about the origin. His mtDNA analysis of "N" places "N" as the mother of all Europeans and West Eurasians. <b>He notes that about 74,000 years ago N lived near India and gave rise to R mtDNA, and from N and R mtDNA, the two daughters living right near the border of India/Pakistan turned West and lived for thousands of years,</b> from about 74,000-60,000 years on the Arabian Gulf and around the Zagros mts. as well as in the area the Kurds occupy today. This correlates exactly to the"Garden of Eden" where the Marsh Arabs live today at the point where the Tigris flows into the Arabian Gulf. Back then, the sea level was different so that the Gulf was an Oasis, what you might call a garden of Eden. From 60,000 years ago to 45,000 years ago mtDNA N and R lived there. Interestingly, when it began to dry up, those two daughters were cast out of their little garden of Eden....right in the spot where the Bible says they lived on the Gulf of Arabia and mouth of the Tigris...and traveled up a specific path through Turkey and into Europe...it's as if they were cast right into the Ice Age of that time. In any case, they populated the Levant 45,000 years ago at the same time as they populated Europe, two branches of N and R....and only those two branches with their corresponding Y-chromo male mates.
The other branch who lived alongside them, M, went East from India into Eastern Asia or remained in India. So today, U7, X, and U2 is all over India living next to the Asian M mtDNA types. Oppenheimer also notes that H is all over India, but at a low level. The origin of H mtDNA is in or near India, having moved westward as it mutated. N from India mutated to R in India, moved west to Pakistan, mutated to pre HV, then HV, then H, inhabited the Arabian Gulf area when it was an oasis, populated Arabia, entered the Levant, mutated to H. Then H left the Arabian peninsula and populated the fertile crescent (Iraq), went to Turkey, then Greece and the rest of Europe, and took refuge in Spain and France, then expanded to Britain and the rest of Europe from Spain to the Urals.
So it's ironic, that with all the hullabaloo about culture clashes. We Europeans are all Arabs and Kurds so to speak, having mutated from L3 to N and then to R in the Arabian Gulf area/Kurdistan to Bahrain...where we all lived from 60,000 years ago to 21,000-45,000 years ago before moving on to the Levant and Europe. Europeans migrated from the Zagros mountains to Europe 45,000 years ago.
<b>So where was Europe populated from? From "near India" according to Oppenheimer. He discusses the genetic and archaeological evidence for an Indian origin of European peoples.</b>
<b>Today R and N is found all over India/Pakistan</b>. And H is descended from R. N is descended from L3 and W, I, and X is descended from N. So you have H coming from R, R coming from N, and N coming from L3 out of Ethiopia/East Africa. From L3 came both N and M, and from N and M and only these two daughters came everyone else who is non-African. Everyone else in Africa is L1, L2, or L3.
U6 in N. Africa migrated from the Levant to N. Africa. Ancient Egyptians who were U6 came to Egypt from the Levant after the Levant was populated 43,000 years ago. The 120,000 year old fossils in the Levant got stuck there and disappeared 90,000 years ago, trapped by an ice age desert. So the moral of the story is....yes, there was a type of garden of Eden in the Arabian gulf exactly where the Bible says it was...and mtDNA N and R lived there after leaving India/Pakistan while M stayed in India and branched off to move to E. Asia 74,000 years ago.
<b>India got covered in ash from the Sumatran volcano eruption 74,000 years ago, which helped move people west and east.</b>...Today, you find L3 still in parts of Indonesia and Malaysia, trapped by the volcano, and surviving there for 74,000 years around Kampala Tampon. I really like Oppenheimer's book. It seems to give the reader the exact location and maps where all Europeans and others come from...just as I thought, mother India for all non-Africans, with mtDNA N and R at the root of everyone in the West, and M at the root of everyone in East Asia, L for all Africans and those who live elsewhere and didn't mutate....The oldest? New Guinea people, M....there in Papua/New Guinea for the longest time, 74,000 years....even older than the Australians, there 68,000 years. Who traveled the farthest in the shortest time? L3 and M (New Guinea)...separated by 74,000 years. By the way, folks, my book on pharmacogenetics and nutrigenomics is finally available. See Web site: http://dnanovels.tripod.com/nutrigenomics.html.
What I thought of Oppenheimer's book is that I ordered Peopling the World from amazon.com and instead what came in the mail was the book on the real Eve. I heard they are two books. Are they similar? The Eve book is thorough. I compared it with Sykes books on the Seven Daughters of Eve. In Sykes' book, he talks about his own laboratory work, whereas Oppenheimer's book doesn't mention a word about what he does in his work at all. Instead, it tells of what all the other archaeologists and geneticists are doing or have done to back up the genetic evidence of how the earth was populated. The book doesn't mention the rivalry or scientists or anything like that between the scientists who expound that Europe was populated by neolithic farmers from Syria and Turkey versus the scientists who say that Europe was populated by Paleolithic hunters from the steppes of West Asia and Zagros mountains. Nothing like that is in Oppenheimer's book, just the facts and evidence of genetics focusing on the Southern route out of Africa of the descendants of one woman and one man who survived. All the rest didn't. One African L3 mtDNA woman and one M168 man who gave rise to mtDNA N, M, and R, from which everyone else is descended and mutated.
So we are all Africans and Indians. Interestingly, he mentions, the reason why L3 didn't leave Ethiopia more frequently or earlier or make more than one excursion and survive it was because genetic and tool evidence shows when L3 left Africa and crossed the Red Sea headed for Yemen, it was populated by non-Homo Sapien archaic people on the other side of the Red Sea in the Middle East. Perhaps they weren't that friendly to see more people competing for the food available from across the narrow sea. What would you have done if you sent a scout across the waters and found Homo Homilei, similar to Homo Erectus, looking back at you? Same must have faced those who later went to Europe and the Levant and found Neanderthal there 45,000 years ago. When two species meet, the outcome has always been the same....Only one species remains. Will this happen when we pioneer outer space?
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENEA...3-08/1061061400<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you refereing to book referred in this article
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives
I've just read much of Stephen Oppenheimer's book on the real Eve that I ordered from amazon.com. It's really right on target about the origin. His mtDNA analysis of "N" places "N" as the mother of all Europeans and West Eurasians. <b>He notes that about 74,000 years ago N lived near India and gave rise to R mtDNA, and from N and R mtDNA, the two daughters living right near the border of India/Pakistan turned West and lived for thousands of years,</b> from about 74,000-60,000 years on the Arabian Gulf and around the Zagros mts. as well as in the area the Kurds occupy today. This correlates exactly to the"Garden of Eden" where the Marsh Arabs live today at the point where the Tigris flows into the Arabian Gulf. Back then, the sea level was different so that the Gulf was an Oasis, what you might call a garden of Eden. From 60,000 years ago to 45,000 years ago mtDNA N and R lived there. Interestingly, when it began to dry up, those two daughters were cast out of their little garden of Eden....right in the spot where the Bible says they lived on the Gulf of Arabia and mouth of the Tigris...and traveled up a specific path through Turkey and into Europe...it's as if they were cast right into the Ice Age of that time. In any case, they populated the Levant 45,000 years ago at the same time as they populated Europe, two branches of N and R....and only those two branches with their corresponding Y-chromo male mates.
The other branch who lived alongside them, M, went East from India into Eastern Asia or remained in India. So today, U7, X, and U2 is all over India living next to the Asian M mtDNA types. Oppenheimer also notes that H is all over India, but at a low level. The origin of H mtDNA is in or near India, having moved westward as it mutated. N from India mutated to R in India, moved west to Pakistan, mutated to pre HV, then HV, then H, inhabited the Arabian Gulf area when it was an oasis, populated Arabia, entered the Levant, mutated to H. Then H left the Arabian peninsula and populated the fertile crescent (Iraq), went to Turkey, then Greece and the rest of Europe, and took refuge in Spain and France, then expanded to Britain and the rest of Europe from Spain to the Urals.
So it's ironic, that with all the hullabaloo about culture clashes. We Europeans are all Arabs and Kurds so to speak, having mutated from L3 to N and then to R in the Arabian Gulf area/Kurdistan to Bahrain...where we all lived from 60,000 years ago to 21,000-45,000 years ago before moving on to the Levant and Europe. Europeans migrated from the Zagros mountains to Europe 45,000 years ago.
<b>So where was Europe populated from? From "near India" according to Oppenheimer. He discusses the genetic and archaeological evidence for an Indian origin of European peoples.</b>
<b>Today R and N is found all over India/Pakistan</b>. And H is descended from R. N is descended from L3 and W, I, and X is descended from N. So you have H coming from R, R coming from N, and N coming from L3 out of Ethiopia/East Africa. From L3 came both N and M, and from N and M and only these two daughters came everyone else who is non-African. Everyone else in Africa is L1, L2, or L3.
U6 in N. Africa migrated from the Levant to N. Africa. Ancient Egyptians who were U6 came to Egypt from the Levant after the Levant was populated 43,000 years ago. The 120,000 year old fossils in the Levant got stuck there and disappeared 90,000 years ago, trapped by an ice age desert. So the moral of the story is....yes, there was a type of garden of Eden in the Arabian gulf exactly where the Bible says it was...and mtDNA N and R lived there after leaving India/Pakistan while M stayed in India and branched off to move to E. Asia 74,000 years ago.
<b>India got covered in ash from the Sumatran volcano eruption 74,000 years ago, which helped move people west and east.</b>...Today, you find L3 still in parts of Indonesia and Malaysia, trapped by the volcano, and surviving there for 74,000 years around Kampala Tampon. I really like Oppenheimer's book. It seems to give the reader the exact location and maps where all Europeans and others come from...just as I thought, mother India for all non-Africans, with mtDNA N and R at the root of everyone in the West, and M at the root of everyone in East Asia, L for all Africans and those who live elsewhere and didn't mutate....The oldest? New Guinea people, M....there in Papua/New Guinea for the longest time, 74,000 years....even older than the Australians, there 68,000 years. Who traveled the farthest in the shortest time? L3 and M (New Guinea)...separated by 74,000 years. By the way, folks, my book on pharmacogenetics and nutrigenomics is finally available. See Web site: http://dnanovels.tripod.com/nutrigenomics.html.
What I thought of Oppenheimer's book is that I ordered Peopling the World from amazon.com and instead what came in the mail was the book on the real Eve. I heard they are two books. Are they similar? The Eve book is thorough. I compared it with Sykes books on the Seven Daughters of Eve. In Sykes' book, he talks about his own laboratory work, whereas Oppenheimer's book doesn't mention a word about what he does in his work at all. Instead, it tells of what all the other archaeologists and geneticists are doing or have done to back up the genetic evidence of how the earth was populated. The book doesn't mention the rivalry or scientists or anything like that between the scientists who expound that Europe was populated by neolithic farmers from Syria and Turkey versus the scientists who say that Europe was populated by Paleolithic hunters from the steppes of West Asia and Zagros mountains. Nothing like that is in Oppenheimer's book, just the facts and evidence of genetics focusing on the Southern route out of Africa of the descendants of one woman and one man who survived. All the rest didn't. One African L3 mtDNA woman and one M168 man who gave rise to mtDNA N, M, and R, from which everyone else is descended and mutated.
So we are all Africans and Indians. Interestingly, he mentions, the reason why L3 didn't leave Ethiopia more frequently or earlier or make more than one excursion and survive it was because genetic and tool evidence shows when L3 left Africa and crossed the Red Sea headed for Yemen, it was populated by non-Homo Sapien archaic people on the other side of the Red Sea in the Middle East. Perhaps they weren't that friendly to see more people competing for the food available from across the narrow sea. What would you have done if you sent a scout across the waters and found Homo Homilei, similar to Homo Erectus, looking back at you? Same must have faced those who later went to Europe and the Levant and found Neanderthal there 45,000 years ago. When two species meet, the outcome has always been the same....Only one species remains. Will this happen when we pioneer outer space?
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENEA...3-08/1061061400<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->