02-10-2009, 08:21 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+Feb 9 2009, 11:04 PM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ Feb 9 2009, 11:04 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Gsub, you say SIB IQ levels are near ashkenazi jew, why aren't we seeing the same level of scientific output then from SIB's? Any reason for this.
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There is a very good reason, let me explain in detail
The caste based dharma of SIB is school teacher
As such they are extremely risk averse
Even the most affluent SIBs are only 2 generations from semi-starvation
Their grandfathers were school teachers
Consider Narayanmurthy of INFOSYS as an example of this genre
His father was a teacher with 8 kids
So most of us have anecdotally heard of 1 or 2 generations ago
of not having milk, eating old buttermilk rice, sleeping on the floor etc
The goal is to get a safe middle class job
About 2 generations ago, it was a college professor, or mid level govt job
Later it became getting into medicine or engineering
These days it is making $100k a year safely
Also, there are responsibilities to the family, such as financially supporting
siblings, parents, other relatives etc
So the goal is to deliberately avoid risk
Other communities such as marwaris are more risk takers
In the international math olympiads, India does middlingly well
whereas in the 6 member US math olympiad team of 2008, there are 2 brahmins
Consider what happens to the Indian math olympiad team
The best high school students go to IIT and medicine
and avoid the math olympiad
Preparing for math olympiad takes 6 months of coaching and this
will affect grades in board exam and IIT exam
Whereas in china etc, the math olympiad students are guaranteed good seats in engineering colleges
The second tier tries for the math olympiad
At end of high school the science group doing BSc is 3rd tier
The first tier goes to IIT or medicine,
the second tier goes to other engineering colleges and only the 3rd tier
goes to pure science or math stream
Most nobel winners are working in US labs
Consider the Indian guy on F1,
he does not even enter the pure science stream, he is doing an MSEE
Or if PhD, in applied science like engineering
not pure science
Nobel is done in pure sciences
The SIB looking for $100k safely will do MSEE or PhD in Engineering
The jewish guy, independently super-rich by Indian standards, and not
having to support family in India can afford to spend 20 years in pure sciences
doing post Doc and getting only $40k
The first Asiatic Nobel in the sciences was CV.Raman ( SIB )
working in shitty Kolkata univ
His nephew Chandrasekhar (SIB ) also got Nobel in 1973, for work done in 1931
( the first japanese nobel came much later )
The Indian nuke team of 1974 consisted of 12 people
of which 8 SIB, 1 NIB and 3 Northern merchants
given the primitive funding and equipment of Indian science
This was almost as difficult a feat as the Alamo effort of Oppenheimer
in 1945
Whereas the soviets stole the US design
The soviets also gifted the nuke design to chinese in 1958
What I am trying to say is that most first and second tier SIB avoid pure sciences
for financial reasons
Instead they do MBA, MSEE, PhD engineering etc
The jewish guy not having the financial burdens can afford to experiment in life
As poverty recedes in India, there will be more willingness to experiment in life by going into pure sciences
I have a URL from Arthur Hu
wherein he states that the only group beating the jews in all fields is
Hindu Americans
In the SATs, Hindu Americans match the Ashkenazi jews, 115 IQ
The SAT is the 2nd generation score and is affected by regression to mean
and neutralises the effect of the first generation being selected for higher IQ
The Hindu American group consists of a blend of Caribbean hindus, Jat Sikhs,
Patel motel owners, etc, of this blend, SIBs are about 10%
Per my rough calculations, this SIB subset is at 125 IQ
And assuming that due to selection effect, this subset is 0.5 SD above the SIB in India
gives an SIB-India score of 117, ( after improving nutrition )
[right][snapback]94404[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a very good reason, let me explain in detail
The caste based dharma of SIB is school teacher
As such they are extremely risk averse
Even the most affluent SIBs are only 2 generations from semi-starvation
Their grandfathers were school teachers
Consider Narayanmurthy of INFOSYS as an example of this genre
His father was a teacher with 8 kids
So most of us have anecdotally heard of 1 or 2 generations ago
of not having milk, eating old buttermilk rice, sleeping on the floor etc
The goal is to get a safe middle class job
About 2 generations ago, it was a college professor, or mid level govt job
Later it became getting into medicine or engineering
These days it is making $100k a year safely
Also, there are responsibilities to the family, such as financially supporting
siblings, parents, other relatives etc
So the goal is to deliberately avoid risk
Other communities such as marwaris are more risk takers
In the international math olympiads, India does middlingly well
whereas in the 6 member US math olympiad team of 2008, there are 2 brahmins
Consider what happens to the Indian math olympiad team
The best high school students go to IIT and medicine
and avoid the math olympiad
Preparing for math olympiad takes 6 months of coaching and this
will affect grades in board exam and IIT exam
Whereas in china etc, the math olympiad students are guaranteed good seats in engineering colleges
The second tier tries for the math olympiad
At end of high school the science group doing BSc is 3rd tier
The first tier goes to IIT or medicine,
the second tier goes to other engineering colleges and only the 3rd tier
goes to pure science or math stream
Most nobel winners are working in US labs
Consider the Indian guy on F1,
he does not even enter the pure science stream, he is doing an MSEE
Or if PhD, in applied science like engineering
not pure science
Nobel is done in pure sciences
The SIB looking for $100k safely will do MSEE or PhD in Engineering
The jewish guy, independently super-rich by Indian standards, and not
having to support family in India can afford to spend 20 years in pure sciences
doing post Doc and getting only $40k
The first Asiatic Nobel in the sciences was CV.Raman ( SIB )
working in shitty Kolkata univ
His nephew Chandrasekhar (SIB ) also got Nobel in 1973, for work done in 1931
( the first japanese nobel came much later )
The Indian nuke team of 1974 consisted of 12 people
of which 8 SIB, 1 NIB and 3 Northern merchants
given the primitive funding and equipment of Indian science
This was almost as difficult a feat as the Alamo effort of Oppenheimer
in 1945
Whereas the soviets stole the US design
The soviets also gifted the nuke design to chinese in 1958
What I am trying to say is that most first and second tier SIB avoid pure sciences
for financial reasons
Instead they do MBA, MSEE, PhD engineering etc
The jewish guy not having the financial burdens can afford to experiment in life
As poverty recedes in India, there will be more willingness to experiment in life by going into pure sciences
I have a URL from Arthur Hu
wherein he states that the only group beating the jews in all fields is
Hindu Americans
In the SATs, Hindu Americans match the Ashkenazi jews, 115 IQ
The SAT is the 2nd generation score and is affected by regression to mean
and neutralises the effect of the first generation being selected for higher IQ
The Hindu American group consists of a blend of Caribbean hindus, Jat Sikhs,
Patel motel owners, etc, of this blend, SIBs are about 10%
Per my rough calculations, this SIB subset is at 125 IQ
And assuming that due to selection effect, this subset is 0.5 SD above the SIB in India
gives an SIB-India score of 117, ( after improving nutrition )