Raja, thanks for initiating a good (and necessary) topic. The whole concept of Independence and whether to 'give' or 'grant' independence to someone is an interesting topic. Independence is never "given". Either you are Independent or you are not. (I shall not go into Vedantic tangent of how Independence is your true nature.)
You quote religion and it's ideas on Independence or Dependence of women. Here, intererestingly you had quoted the Gita. As far as I know, the Gita does not say women should be subservient to men. In Chapter 1, Arjuna is concerned about Kula-stree and then about Varna inter-mixing. Sri Bhagavan in 10:34 mentions that He indeed is 'Shri, Keerthi, and Vakh amongst women.' All the three mentioned are amongst some of the greatest Personalities we have seen. And they were fiercely Independent. Gargi Vachaknavi was a *highly educated* intellectually gifted 'woman' who had challenged a even the great Yagyavalkya in the Brihadaranyaka. She was representing Kashi in an assembly of intellectuals filled with *males*.
Your fear of fragile families is well founded in the wake of a society that seems to be degenerating. Well, every generation since the dawn of time has been bemoaning that it is degenerating. There is nothing new in this.
Raja, your concern about freedom is ill-founded. Independence is not an impediment to a happy family, but a FOUNDATION to one. You have mentioned Independence without addressing the other pillar of Happiness. Along with <b>Independence</b> comes <b>Responsibility.</b>
Be it man or woman, as long as there is freedom without responsibility, there is a high chance of it leading the person astray. Your quotes of statistics about the US or any other part of the world is precisely owing to this.
In India, as in any other part of the world, the concept of marriage does not limit itself to producing babies. A healthy marriage is all about bringing up responsible citizens. It is about sculpting personalities that can make a difference in the world, to themselves and to others. This involves the commitment of both <b>man and woman.</b> Restricting a woman's independence while allowing a man to be irresponsible amounts to bigotry. A woman has traditionally been a housekeeper because men lack the responsibility to change diapers and cook/clean.
I shall now go back historically to see what kind of freedom women had in Bharath.
Take the Ramayana for instance. When Rama was ordered to go into Exile, Matha Janaki wanted to go along. Rama tries to convince her that the forest is a dangerous place, and that she is not used to such dangerous terrain. She retorts saying "Hey Rama, I thought you were a man. But you are just a woman in a man's form." ("Striyam Purusha Vigraham") Yes, she calls Rama by name.
âkim tvA manyata VaidEha: pita mE MithilAdhipa:
RAma jAmAtaram prApya striyam purusha vigrahamâ... Ayodhya Khanda (30:3)
Sri Shankaracharya's SoundaryaLahari begins with a shloka stating as below:
Shiva, without Shakthi's help cannot even move by himself. Hence O divine mother, you are worshipped by Hari, Hara and Brahma..
A marriage will never go wrong because a wife has a brain of her own. Yes, I agree that there are Women's lib members who go to extremes in finding sexist attitude in each and every thing. But this should be taken as an exception and not the rule.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In India, we have imposed restrictions on women for "smoking" and "drinking". They are not allowed to move around freely and controlled. I feel this control is required. I do not think, a true Indian lover, wish to "smoke" and "drink" with his wife and children ! These areas, I feel, women needs to be controlled.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please enlighten me as to why men should be allowed to smoke and drink. Is there an advantage for men to smoke or drink? Is there a religious sanction here? Or do you agree with me that Smoking/Drinking should be banned irrespective of the sexes. What goes for the goose should go for the gander too.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, the controls imposed on a girl to move around freely, will reduce the probability of having improper sexual relationships.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With whom? If responsibility was made necessary for men and women, then this scenario will not happen. Right?
With regards to dress code and social conduct, please read Vatsyayana's Kamasutra. It is a snapshot of the society back then. (You can read Ramayana, Mahabharatha too to find out snapshots of the respective times.)
I propose that women and men should have <b>full independence, coupled with responsibility.</b> Every man should understand that family is team work, and that when the harmony in a family is disturbed, the repurcussions are felt for the future generations to come.
Hope you agree.
You quote religion and it's ideas on Independence or Dependence of women. Here, intererestingly you had quoted the Gita. As far as I know, the Gita does not say women should be subservient to men. In Chapter 1, Arjuna is concerned about Kula-stree and then about Varna inter-mixing. Sri Bhagavan in 10:34 mentions that He indeed is 'Shri, Keerthi, and Vakh amongst women.' All the three mentioned are amongst some of the greatest Personalities we have seen. And they were fiercely Independent. Gargi Vachaknavi was a *highly educated* intellectually gifted 'woman' who had challenged a even the great Yagyavalkya in the Brihadaranyaka. She was representing Kashi in an assembly of intellectuals filled with *males*.
Your fear of fragile families is well founded in the wake of a society that seems to be degenerating. Well, every generation since the dawn of time has been bemoaning that it is degenerating. There is nothing new in this.
Raja, your concern about freedom is ill-founded. Independence is not an impediment to a happy family, but a FOUNDATION to one. You have mentioned Independence without addressing the other pillar of Happiness. Along with <b>Independence</b> comes <b>Responsibility.</b>
Be it man or woman, as long as there is freedom without responsibility, there is a high chance of it leading the person astray. Your quotes of statistics about the US or any other part of the world is precisely owing to this.
In India, as in any other part of the world, the concept of marriage does not limit itself to producing babies. A healthy marriage is all about bringing up responsible citizens. It is about sculpting personalities that can make a difference in the world, to themselves and to others. This involves the commitment of both <b>man and woman.</b> Restricting a woman's independence while allowing a man to be irresponsible amounts to bigotry. A woman has traditionally been a housekeeper because men lack the responsibility to change diapers and cook/clean.
I shall now go back historically to see what kind of freedom women had in Bharath.
Take the Ramayana for instance. When Rama was ordered to go into Exile, Matha Janaki wanted to go along. Rama tries to convince her that the forest is a dangerous place, and that she is not used to such dangerous terrain. She retorts saying "Hey Rama, I thought you were a man. But you are just a woman in a man's form." ("Striyam Purusha Vigraham") Yes, she calls Rama by name.
âkim tvA manyata VaidEha: pita mE MithilAdhipa:
RAma jAmAtaram prApya striyam purusha vigrahamâ... Ayodhya Khanda (30:3)
Sri Shankaracharya's SoundaryaLahari begins with a shloka stating as below:
Shiva, without Shakthi's help cannot even move by himself. Hence O divine mother, you are worshipped by Hari, Hara and Brahma..
A marriage will never go wrong because a wife has a brain of her own. Yes, I agree that there are Women's lib members who go to extremes in finding sexist attitude in each and every thing. But this should be taken as an exception and not the rule.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In India, we have imposed restrictions on women for "smoking" and "drinking". They are not allowed to move around freely and controlled. I feel this control is required. I do not think, a true Indian lover, wish to "smoke" and "drink" with his wife and children ! These areas, I feel, women needs to be controlled.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please enlighten me as to why men should be allowed to smoke and drink. Is there an advantage for men to smoke or drink? Is there a religious sanction here? Or do you agree with me that Smoking/Drinking should be banned irrespective of the sexes. What goes for the goose should go for the gander too.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, the controls imposed on a girl to move around freely, will reduce the probability of having improper sexual relationships.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With whom? If responsibility was made necessary for men and women, then this scenario will not happen. Right?
With regards to dress code and social conduct, please read Vatsyayana's Kamasutra. It is a snapshot of the society back then. (You can read Ramayana, Mahabharatha too to find out snapshots of the respective times.)
I propose that women and men should have <b>full independence, coupled with responsibility.</b> Every man should understand that family is team work, and that when the harmony in a family is disturbed, the repurcussions are felt for the future generations to come.
Hope you agree.