01-05-2005, 11:19 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Jan 6 2005, 03:46 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Jan 6 2005, 03:46 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sunder guroo,
Thanks for some good posts.
You mentioned Soundarya Lahiri. I had read somewhere that Vivekachudamani says that it is rare to get a human life and rarer still is the male body ? What is the context ? I can easily infer from the above that it is equally rare to get a female human body (assuming sex ratio of 1) but just wanted to extract some knowledge out of guroos here.. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks Rajesh ji,
In the VivekaChudamani, Verse 2, Sri Shankaracharya uses a moha-mudhgaram (a sledgehammer to break the delusion) by stating as follows..
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><i>
jantuunaaM nara-janma dur-labham ataH puMstvaM tato viprataa
tasmaad vaidika-dharma-maarga-parataa vidvattvam asmaat param
aatmaan'aatma-vivechanaM svanubhavo brahm'aatmanaa saMsthitiH
muktir no shata-janma-koTi-su-kR^taiH puNyair vinaa labhyate.
</i>
For all beings a human birth is difficult to obtain, more so is a male body; rarer than that is Brahmanahood; rarer still is the attachment to the path of Vedic religion; higher than this is erudition in the scriptures; discrimination between the Self and not-Self, Realisation, and continuing in a state of identity with Brahman â these come next in order. (This kind of) Mukti (Liberation) is not to be attained except through the well-earned merits of a hundred crore of births.
(http://www.celextel.org/ebooks/adi_sanka...damani.htm) <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I read this (back in the 90's) it felt like this stanza was written just for me. The effect of this particular stanza was <b>electrifying</b> to say the least, and left me with a sense of vairagya which seems to have gotten dormant over time.
My take on this stanza is as follows:
The Chidabhasa is nothing but jeeva, which is a reflection of Brahman on Avidya. For the Chidabhasa (Consciousness) to manifest itself in a body is rare. In a layperson's language, it is better to be born as a living being than to be born as a stone or a rock. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>jantuunaaM nara-janma dur-labham.</b> Thus, of all beings, it is better to be born in a Human body (as humanbeings have the capability of making spiritual pursuits and philosophical quest on the Origin of the Universe compared to other beings.)
<b>puMstvaM tato viprataa.</b> Pumsatvam means being a Man. Having a moustache does not make a man. There are certain qualities that makes a Man, like 'Standing up for oneself', 'being resilient at times of happiness and pain', 'keeping one's words' and 'protecting those who count on him'. A physical male who is a coward is not really considered a male (Klaibhyam maasmagama partha. - Srimadh Bhagavadh Geetha.) Pumsah is male, and napumsah is eunuch. Sri Shankara says it is better to be born a male (not many physical-males are really Men.)
Amongst men, Viprathaa is considered higher. Viprah is a learned one who comes from a decent upbringing. A Characterless man from a brahminic family cannot be considered a viprah.
<b>tasmaad vaidika-dharma-maarga-parataa</b> Among those men who are of great character, the ones who have faith in the Vedas are considered higher. Here, the faith is not blind faith, but faith with an quest to learn and understand the Brahman that the Vedas talk about. Great character with no faith in vedas is like unseasoned food. It satisfies the hunger, but does not taste good.
<b>vidvattvam asmaat param.</b> Better still is for the man of faith to not just remain faithful, but to understand and excel in the knowledge offered by the Vedas. Faith without knowledge serves no purpose.
<b>aatmaan'aatma-vivechanaM</b> Of those men of good character who have excelled in Vedic knowledge, the best one is he who understands the difference between the Eternal Self and the ephemeral universe.
<b>svanubhavo brahm'aatmanaa saMsthitiH</b> Of those who can discriminate as above, he who Realizes the Self is indeed the HIGHEST of them all. For it is HE who finally attains the state that is beyond birth, manhood, faith, and discrimination.
<b>muktir no shata-janma-koTi-su-kR^taiH puNyair vinaa labhyate.</b> Such a liberation (i.e. Self Realization) does not come without great deeds committed in a billion lifetimes.
PS: There will be questions whether women are unfit for self-realization. There is no statement that says so. A male has more social liberties (and no monthly physical discomforts) that women face. Thus it is easy for a kaupeena-vantah (wearing nothing but a loin cloth) to roam around as a parivrajaka (wandering monk). Thus being born as a man may be a blessing for aspirants as they have a starting advantage.
Thanks for some good posts.
You mentioned Soundarya Lahiri. I had read somewhere that Vivekachudamani says that it is rare to get a human life and rarer still is the male body ? What is the context ? I can easily infer from the above that it is equally rare to get a female human body (assuming sex ratio of 1) but just wanted to extract some knowledge out of guroos here.. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thanks Rajesh ji,
In the VivekaChudamani, Verse 2, Sri Shankaracharya uses a moha-mudhgaram (a sledgehammer to break the delusion) by stating as follows..
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><i>
jantuunaaM nara-janma dur-labham ataH puMstvaM tato viprataa
tasmaad vaidika-dharma-maarga-parataa vidvattvam asmaat param
aatmaan'aatma-vivechanaM svanubhavo brahm'aatmanaa saMsthitiH
muktir no shata-janma-koTi-su-kR^taiH puNyair vinaa labhyate.
</i>
For all beings a human birth is difficult to obtain, more so is a male body; rarer than that is Brahmanahood; rarer still is the attachment to the path of Vedic religion; higher than this is erudition in the scriptures; discrimination between the Self and not-Self, Realisation, and continuing in a state of identity with Brahman â these come next in order. (This kind of) Mukti (Liberation) is not to be attained except through the well-earned merits of a hundred crore of births.
(http://www.celextel.org/ebooks/adi_sanka...damani.htm) <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I read this (back in the 90's) it felt like this stanza was written just for me. The effect of this particular stanza was <b>electrifying</b> to say the least, and left me with a sense of vairagya which seems to have gotten dormant over time.
My take on this stanza is as follows:
The Chidabhasa is nothing but jeeva, which is a reflection of Brahman on Avidya. For the Chidabhasa (Consciousness) to manifest itself in a body is rare. In a layperson's language, it is better to be born as a living being than to be born as a stone or a rock. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><b>jantuunaaM nara-janma dur-labham.</b> Thus, of all beings, it is better to be born in a Human body (as humanbeings have the capability of making spiritual pursuits and philosophical quest on the Origin of the Universe compared to other beings.)
<b>puMstvaM tato viprataa.</b> Pumsatvam means being a Man. Having a moustache does not make a man. There are certain qualities that makes a Man, like 'Standing up for oneself', 'being resilient at times of happiness and pain', 'keeping one's words' and 'protecting those who count on him'. A physical male who is a coward is not really considered a male (Klaibhyam maasmagama partha. - Srimadh Bhagavadh Geetha.) Pumsah is male, and napumsah is eunuch. Sri Shankara says it is better to be born a male (not many physical-males are really Men.)
Amongst men, Viprathaa is considered higher. Viprah is a learned one who comes from a decent upbringing. A Characterless man from a brahminic family cannot be considered a viprah.
<b>tasmaad vaidika-dharma-maarga-parataa</b> Among those men who are of great character, the ones who have faith in the Vedas are considered higher. Here, the faith is not blind faith, but faith with an quest to learn and understand the Brahman that the Vedas talk about. Great character with no faith in vedas is like unseasoned food. It satisfies the hunger, but does not taste good.
<b>vidvattvam asmaat param.</b> Better still is for the man of faith to not just remain faithful, but to understand and excel in the knowledge offered by the Vedas. Faith without knowledge serves no purpose.
<b>aatmaan'aatma-vivechanaM</b> Of those men of good character who have excelled in Vedic knowledge, the best one is he who understands the difference between the Eternal Self and the ephemeral universe.
<b>svanubhavo brahm'aatmanaa saMsthitiH</b> Of those who can discriminate as above, he who Realizes the Self is indeed the HIGHEST of them all. For it is HE who finally attains the state that is beyond birth, manhood, faith, and discrimination.
<b>muktir no shata-janma-koTi-su-kR^taiH puNyair vinaa labhyate.</b> Such a liberation (i.e. Self Realization) does not come without great deeds committed in a billion lifetimes.
PS: There will be questions whether women are unfit for self-realization. There is no statement that says so. A male has more social liberties (and no monthly physical discomforts) that women face. Thus it is easy for a kaupeena-vantah (wearing nothing but a loin cloth) to roam around as a parivrajaka (wandering monk). Thus being born as a man may be a blessing for aspirants as they have a starting advantage.