06-05-2009, 12:44 AM
I will answer with my opinions and experiences from the recent past <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Muppalla
Couple of questions for the stalwarts
Where does ABVP fit in the scheme of things for BJP? ABVP should be more vocal in campuses, holding debates on crucial issuesOr are they fit only for goondagardhi and drinking Haywards 5000 and ogle at women?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lot of campuses have no politcs anymore. Even if they are there very few in science and engineering sections are really interested in campus politics. In many universities, though they conduct elections they conduct on non-party basis. The <b>perception</b> about ABVP and sangh parivar in general is brahminical and hence it should be opposed. The maculyte education for centuries is not erased and not-erasable unless BJP comes to power for atleast two terms and change the education content. <b>Sangh parivaar is a Hindu revivalist structure and brahminism is the fundamental to hindu revivalism is the strongest perception in the population. This perception is the hurdle for ideological expansion.</b> Hence the expansion has to be by other means in the short run.
I beleive it is important to be in power by hook or crook to change the perception. By not being in power, even if the sangh parivaar tries, the enemy has more mechanisms to put you in that bind.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can't BJP start their own publicity arm, distribution outlets in every community - handouts to blogs to SMSs (Having a poorly maintained website does not cut it)
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It does in a very big way. FriendsOfBJP is one new arm of it. There are a lot of proxies too in this aspect. I would say BJP does better than any other party. In cyberspace no one can beat it out. The problem is the TV and going and getting poorest into its fold.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can't they have monthly meetings in every community - if not BJP, then sangh associated outfits. Start using temples as meeting places. Hindus do not have a place to meet anywhere as government by design stops temples being used for such things (whereas it is ok for churches and mosques)
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sangh parivaar does this at temples and also at various places. Meetings and conducting the meetings is not a problem but converting them to vote for BJP as opposed to vote in sectarian line is the problem. Uniteing Hindus via such meetings is a good idea and it has to continue but it is a <b>long drawn process </b>in a 1000s year old wounded civilization. This process and winning elections should be exclusive process and BJP should not depend on this. If we think we should wait then we will be waiting for ever before that using power, we all will be evangelized. <b>Time is not on our side especially after recent loss.</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->What is their strategy in delivering the message? Our message was never the problem. The problem was always the mode, content and the delivery. What is being done or will be done to rectify it.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The message is complex and it not reaching beyond the core. The core is not expanding beyond 10% of India's population though 20 to 25% are voting for BJP. In this election they got an overall 18% voteshare. Not all the 18% are voting because of message.
The message delivery process can keep going and it is not practical to make the 30% population as core unless you are in power. The enemy is strong and it has more machinery to <b>not allow </b>folks to get the message. It is literally impossible to counter the machinery. Last 10 years are the examples.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Are they planning to tie up with any think tanks? If so, which ones and why? If not, why not?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The major think tank is RSS. In my personal opinion, RSS is not geared to the modern way of countering the forceful-rapid-onslaught on India. I will tell you an example. One of my friends after the huge loss in elections, after due appointment had a telephonic conversation with very top line person from RSS to know thier thought process. All he said was about Bharatvarsh and how BJP is not 100% hindu and it is also trying the Congress route with caste votebanks and other stuff like that.
If the think tank thinks that we have to achive in one and only path of first educating 35% of voters about the complex theory of hindutva, bharatvarsh etc. and then get to power, India will have lesser and lesser souls un-harvested in future.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->What is being done to get in between two extremes - Continue wearing khaki chaddis OR discard hindutva for "liberal hinduism" (Since congress owns secular hinduism). Wtf!
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Going soft for winning elections is not a bad option until the education system is changed. If it can win elections then why not? Everything else is useless if you cannot win and rule. The evangelical juggernaut is at a fast pace and the tactics need to match to fight it. The motto should be compromise to win and be powerful and when in power implement all that you want fast and furious.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can't they (BJP + RSS) embrace temple protection movements and ingratiate with local communities? Have one member/karyakartha for every temple in the country or cluster of temples in an area. Continue to log/document what's being done to the temples.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a definite need. Watch this space and something is being planned in this direction. It is being planned as a legal recource. Temple lands and temple money is being diverted in a scale that we never heard before.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can't they be more vocal about Hindus' plight in other countries, and and in India itself? Don't scream bloody murder about Conversions (counter it quietly), but scream out loud about the victims. We are after all in the human rights and victimized world.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Victimhood is not working. See how the urban middle class hindus voted in Mumbai and Delhi and that too after Mumbai was attacked in full global glare. Victimhood is only working to bring the core to voting booth. But core is only 10%.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The bottomline is they need to organize, involve communities (Hindus) and start a movement. Whether they like it or not, they are never going to get Mullah and Missionary vote. Let "secular parties" compete for that and thin that vote out. We may not see complete hindu unity, but creating hindu brother hood and a sense of shared destiny is not impossible.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They do not need to get mullah or evangelical vote but in the short run they need to get the HFL votes. They need to reorganize so that though they do get the mullah or evangelical vote, they should be able to infilterate and split this vote and take the advantage away while getting the HFL and other casteistic sections into it.
It is all about winning elections. ideological voters in India a very few. Election management and voter base expansion (not core) should be primary goal. Current thought process of hindutva or related concepts as election strategy is tested three times and it is not putting them in the power.
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Muppalla
Couple of questions for the stalwarts
Where does ABVP fit in the scheme of things for BJP? ABVP should be more vocal in campuses, holding debates on crucial issuesOr are they fit only for goondagardhi and drinking Haywards 5000 and ogle at women?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lot of campuses have no politcs anymore. Even if they are there very few in science and engineering sections are really interested in campus politics. In many universities, though they conduct elections they conduct on non-party basis. The <b>perception</b> about ABVP and sangh parivar in general is brahminical and hence it should be opposed. The maculyte education for centuries is not erased and not-erasable unless BJP comes to power for atleast two terms and change the education content. <b>Sangh parivaar is a Hindu revivalist structure and brahminism is the fundamental to hindu revivalism is the strongest perception in the population. This perception is the hurdle for ideological expansion.</b> Hence the expansion has to be by other means in the short run.
I beleive it is important to be in power by hook or crook to change the perception. By not being in power, even if the sangh parivaar tries, the enemy has more mechanisms to put you in that bind.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can't BJP start their own publicity arm, distribution outlets in every community - handouts to blogs to SMSs (Having a poorly maintained website does not cut it)
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It does in a very big way. FriendsOfBJP is one new arm of it. There are a lot of proxies too in this aspect. I would say BJP does better than any other party. In cyberspace no one can beat it out. The problem is the TV and going and getting poorest into its fold.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can't they have monthly meetings in every community - if not BJP, then sangh associated outfits. Start using temples as meeting places. Hindus do not have a place to meet anywhere as government by design stops temples being used for such things (whereas it is ok for churches and mosques)
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sangh parivaar does this at temples and also at various places. Meetings and conducting the meetings is not a problem but converting them to vote for BJP as opposed to vote in sectarian line is the problem. Uniteing Hindus via such meetings is a good idea and it has to continue but it is a <b>long drawn process </b>in a 1000s year old wounded civilization. This process and winning elections should be exclusive process and BJP should not depend on this. If we think we should wait then we will be waiting for ever before that using power, we all will be evangelized. <b>Time is not on our side especially after recent loss.</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->What is their strategy in delivering the message? Our message was never the problem. The problem was always the mode, content and the delivery. What is being done or will be done to rectify it.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The message is complex and it not reaching beyond the core. The core is not expanding beyond 10% of India's population though 20 to 25% are voting for BJP. In this election they got an overall 18% voteshare. Not all the 18% are voting because of message.
The message delivery process can keep going and it is not practical to make the 30% population as core unless you are in power. The enemy is strong and it has more machinery to <b>not allow </b>folks to get the message. It is literally impossible to counter the machinery. Last 10 years are the examples.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Are they planning to tie up with any think tanks? If so, which ones and why? If not, why not?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The major think tank is RSS. In my personal opinion, RSS is not geared to the modern way of countering the forceful-rapid-onslaught on India. I will tell you an example. One of my friends after the huge loss in elections, after due appointment had a telephonic conversation with very top line person from RSS to know thier thought process. All he said was about Bharatvarsh and how BJP is not 100% hindu and it is also trying the Congress route with caste votebanks and other stuff like that.
If the think tank thinks that we have to achive in one and only path of first educating 35% of voters about the complex theory of hindutva, bharatvarsh etc. and then get to power, India will have lesser and lesser souls un-harvested in future.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->What is being done to get in between two extremes - Continue wearing khaki chaddis OR discard hindutva for "liberal hinduism" (Since congress owns secular hinduism). Wtf!
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Going soft for winning elections is not a bad option until the education system is changed. If it can win elections then why not? Everything else is useless if you cannot win and rule. The evangelical juggernaut is at a fast pace and the tactics need to match to fight it. The motto should be compromise to win and be powerful and when in power implement all that you want fast and furious.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can't they (BJP + RSS) embrace temple protection movements and ingratiate with local communities? Have one member/karyakartha for every temple in the country or cluster of temples in an area. Continue to log/document what's being done to the temples.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a definite need. Watch this space and something is being planned in this direction. It is being planned as a legal recource. Temple lands and temple money is being diverted in a scale that we never heard before.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can't they be more vocal about Hindus' plight in other countries, and and in India itself? Don't scream bloody murder about Conversions (counter it quietly), but scream out loud about the victims. We are after all in the human rights and victimized world.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Victimhood is not working. See how the urban middle class hindus voted in Mumbai and Delhi and that too after Mumbai was attacked in full global glare. Victimhood is only working to bring the core to voting booth. But core is only 10%.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 4 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The bottomline is they need to organize, involve communities (Hindus) and start a movement. Whether they like it or not, they are never going to get Mullah and Missionary vote. Let "secular parties" compete for that and thin that vote out. We may not see complete hindu unity, but creating hindu brother hood and a sense of shared destiny is not impossible.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They do not need to get mullah or evangelical vote but in the short run they need to get the HFL votes. They need to reorganize so that though they do get the mullah or evangelical vote, they should be able to infilterate and split this vote and take the advantage away while getting the HFL and other casteistic sections into it.
It is all about winning elections. ideological voters in India a very few. Election management and voter base expansion (not core) should be primary goal. Current thought process of hindutva or related concepts as election strategy is tested three times and it is not putting them in the power.